Lady Anna

I think we should not confuse ''Bran will be king'' with ''Bran will be king exactly like in the show''. The former may be the only thing D&D knew, but just by itself it's a completely decontextualized spoiler. It's like, for example, ''Rhaegal will die''. We have no ideia about the how, why, or even when. And I guess they didn't either? But it will happen, just not like they showed.

Agree with all of this.

@Lord Aegon The Compromiser Sorry to butt in, but maybe the other user was referring to this which is from a recent blog post by GRRM: "It is hard to believe it is over, if truth be told. The years have gone past in the blink of an eye. Can it really have been more than a decade since my manager Vince Gerardis set up a meeting at the Palm in LA, and I sat down for the first time with David Benioff and D.B. Weiss for a lunch that lasted well past dinner? I asked them if they knew who Jon Snow’s mother was. Fortunately, they did." This implies that Jon's parentage in the show is the right one. Not sure if this was what @CrypticWeirwood was referring to in their first post about this.

Me too! But since it's been years since Dance, in hindsight, I wish we already knew more about that whole situation

Yeah. As I said before the pacing of this whole series is off. How are all those things supposed to happen in just 2 books when the Lannister-Stark/War of the 5 Kings conflict lasted 3 books, and when 5 books in we're still kinda in the middle of the story?

Not surprising. I'm ok with it.

Maybe Bran is king because he is Jon's heir as his next male relative? Idk just throwing things out there. But I guess if he or Rickon is considered Jon's heir (here presuming people consider him to be the rightful heir and he died or abdicated) then people would have a reason to want him to be king, maybe under a regency. That said, Westeros will be unrecognizable by the end so I'm not sure if there will be a king of a unified Westeros. I myself veer more towards the split kingdoms theory.

In 2015 or so when the show overtook the books, I did have some bitter feelings towards the books, because I didn't think the show would outpace them. Now, though, I don't, I've made my peace. The show is the show, the books are the books. I'm 'fine' with this ending but I know that if the books come out it will be way better than what we had here. The only thing I've been more certain about, over the years, is that the books may actually never be released. Gradually that has become a real and strong possibility, unfortunately. And the fact that GOT will become a bigger franchise with the prequels and stuff doesn't make me feel any better about it, it feels like the books are being left behind...

But when Drogon is outside the door to the Red Keep when Jon goes there, he was covered in snow, no? He shook it off. Or were those still ashes?

The council scene was laughably and absurdly bad. I lost it when Davos said there's no people in the Reach lol. And don't even get me started on Bronn....

6/10. I liked it, but while it's personally satisfying, it's far from being narratively satisfying. The dialogue is still awful, some things don't make sense, but they wouldn't change that now. I did like Dany's death scene, Bran being king (I can see this happening in the books maybe through a time skip with adult Bran pov), and the Stark montage at the end. A time for wolves huh? Not a problem for me.

I'm a fan of Asoiaf because it's an amazing story and great books. And that's why I care about these things. I did not say Grrm was a racist or sexist; I said some of his writing is racist and sexist, such as the depiction of the Dothraki, for example. I'm sure anyone, who certainly doesn't consider themselves racist or sexist, can still write things that border on it, even with no malice whatsoever. He's under no obligation to write anything in any way, but we can think critically about it, not just accept it as it is; but at least for me reading such depictions of non-white characters or female characters isn't very nice. It has nothing to do with what happens in this world, what is acceptable or not in-universe, but how he chose to write and depict certain things. I can feel this way and still admire this work, it's not an either-or situation. I would think any author who wants to be considered good and appeal to a large number of people would be considerate of such things, as I think we all are in our lives. I can see from your response that you probably don't think the story has sexist of racist elements. Okay. I also don't see how analysing these things is considered biased to a certain socio-political view....I mean, we are talking about things that have more to do with humanity and empathy and not politics. I don't see how that has to do with socio-politics. Anyway, I'm sure others have wrote about this in all the pages of this thread (which I haven't read) - including actual readers who aren't white, as well as other female readers - and I'm sure they have written better than I have. Sorry if this post isn't very clear; english is not my first language.

Me too! And I even watched season 6 and 7 beforehand..........

A confession: Every time I read Davos last ADWD chapter, and we're told Manderly knows Rickon is alive but he's in Skagos, I want to scream!!! I always think that Manderly should have just had Rickon and Osha with him already............ it just seems like an uneccessary detour

The true heroes of this story are the folks who jumped ship after season 4, or better yet, didn't even watch this show in the first place. We're all fools......

I do think she will get darker in the books - no question. Where we may disagree is that I think she will bounce back, remaining a grey character with ultimately heroic goals (when the Others come in). I do trust George.

I agree.

The letter said something like Jon is the true heir and was protected by Eddard Stark, I think. To whom he was writing though....no ideia. Someone in another thread said it might have been to the other lords of Westeros (they exist? ).

I genuinely hate the ideia of Jon killing Dany, and also of him becoming king, especially after doing something like that.

Interestingly, Dany wasn't even one of my faves in both book and show, before this season. But I feel the need to defend her because, from my perspective, this was horrible writing and not anything resembling consistency, as you say. I actually agree with your 1st paragraph, except I don't think she's not a hero - or won't be, but can I ask, if I may: do you think Jon is not a hero too? Didn't he fail as well? I think we can also say he succumbed to his character flaws which got him killed. This is actually something I like about the two, they're both tragic.

This is true.

Yes but 'insane'? Evil? I just think those are strong words to describe people's reasonable feelings that Dany may struggle with power and fire and blood in the future. How can you read the first book, and watch season 1, and realize ''Yes this is an evil, insane person''? You might think 'oh she's going to be tested, she wants to be a conqueror, she wants the Iron Throne but that's not going to be easy', and the dragons are not toys, but to think she's just evil and insane, as I see people here say? That's a leap imo (although that is how the show is framing it I know).

I wonder if people would be saying Dany has been insane since book 1 / season 1 if this episode didn't happen.

I was gonna say. This show has never been feminist. So I don't get some anti-sjw saying people should be pleased by how many female characters the show has and empowers. Really? Badass moments for no reason and with no substance is not feminist; it's bad writing and pandering. It's pretty clear these writers can only write one type of woman and it's not a 3-dimensional one. And that wouldn't suddenly change now at season 8.

My two cents: I think it might happen in the books (versus Aegon). The thing is, while I understand that everything she went through made her snap- who wouldn't - I don't think she would just kill hundreds of thousands of civilians because of it. Making her do that in this episode was too much imo. If she burns the city, it would be the Red Keep or to end a battle quickly. Dany will be tested; she is after all an invader who wants to conquer a whole continent. Like all other conquerors she will be faced with difficult decisions. But why would this mean she's ''evil''? Can't she feel remorse and guilt over her decisions? Aren't others like Jon and Stannis faced with similarly difficult decisions (or will be)? I don't believe she will become a Mad Queen in the books....that's not her character. But that's how they're framing it in the show (since what she did is pretty unforgivable). She's a Targ, she's crazy and evil. Very rushed writing as well, with no buildup or consistency. So generally I think Dany will be tested but she will persevere and come back from her darkest moments. And I guess that's when the Others come in. I believe that the war for the dawn will happen after this in the books. And there I think she will have a crucial role and possibly die during it (but not killed by Jon...god how i hate that lol).