Lady Anna

No problem. Like I said, to me, I personally enjoy stories that deal with the themes and tropes that are present in the prequels. The execution, of course, is terrible. For one, the dialogue sucks and every other scene, no matter what happens in it - if it's a romantic, action or quiet scene - fall flat and have no life to them. I don't disagree with your opinion on the passable and messy plot elements. They are front and center. My post was just me describing my preference for a type of story and why, for that reason, I do find some elements in the prequels that, in the hands of someone else, could have made those movies better. The wasted potential is just frustrating... which I think is something we can say about the sequels too!

I agree with this. I actually find the story/concept of the prequels, in abstract, pretty interesting. I personally really like the political angle when it comes to SW (something that makes me a big fan of Andor) and I think that Anakin, again in abstract, is actually a very interesting, layered character. The intertwining of his fall and the Republic's fall could make for an exciting story. Unfortunately, the execution does not live up to the potential that is there. I recently rewatched ROTS in theaters and I swear, there's something kinda great and timeless buried in that movie... In the hands of another writer and director, it could have been great and actually match the grandiose vision that Lucas probably had in his mind. Alas.... at least the John Williams score is fantastic.

Finally watched the last 3 episodes. I liked them, especially episode 10, but I think overall this arc was just going through the motions at some point, like the need to tie it all back into Rogue One and to tie the whole show together. The limitations they were working with regards to the structure and scope of the story felt more present here. Sort of reminded me of the last season of the Expanse. Also didn't like the final shot to be honest. They didn't really know what to do with Bix, her character was just given a similar arc to the 1st season and that's really unfortunate.

Amazing arc! Episode 8 is the most harrowing thing I've seen in SW I think. Realistic, graphic evil is so much more shocking and impactful than large-scale sci-fi things like Death Stars and battle scenes in space with thousands of ships. It's not new to Andor but they've taken up a notch here. Episode 9 was pretty good too, needless to say. What a culmination! It's just amazing to me what these people are doing with Star Wars.

I thought the new 3 episodes were pretty good! Definitely a noticeable step up from the first 3. The direction and editing are so much smoother. The writing is more solid too; these episodes were actually written by the same guy who wrote the 3 prison episodes from season 1. I love these characters and it was good to see Saw again and a bigger role for Kleya and Lonni. Ghorman definitely has a 1940s occupied France feel and look to it. An interesting contrast to the general retro 70s future. The worldbuilding in this show is really good. I love all the little details.

Yeah, I have encountered similar opinions. A SW fan I follow on another platform said they didn't like Andor very much because there's no Jedi and it doesn't deal with the Force.

I liked the first 3 episodes. It wasn't as good overall as I was expecting, although these are only the first set and maybe I had high expectations. What I found strange was the editing (too quick cuts, not letting the scenes play out and breathe) but it seems like they used it, and the tonal shifts, to contrast and highlight each subplot. The comedic bent of the rebels of the first 2 episodes was also a weird thing to include so I was definitely worried a bit in the 1st episode (especially with that big action opening which seemed too much too soon). But I enjoyed episodes 2 and 3. I think we're on a good track. It's still amazing that this is Star Wars lol Having SW be taken seriously and coming out with such a good show feels like a gift. Tony Gillroy and co. should be the ones taking over Lucasfilm. I also really liked the Chandrilan subplot, I find the tradition & family story quite compelling. It's interesting that the men wear these Jedi-like robes and there's a braid cutting ceremony too. Idk if we're supposed to be having thoughts about the Lore of the Jedi or something. If there's a common history there. Not that it matters directly, but I wonder if it was a deliberate detail they decided to put in when they came up with Chandrilan society/culture stuff.

I finished season 2. Maybe I spoke too soon when I made the above post because the very next episode was the worst of the show lol. It's the weird episode when the show suddenly turned comedic. I can't believe they actually did that, like no one thought it may have been bordering on jumping the shark? Cause I thought so. Speaking of, Lee Pace's acting was so uneven, it's distracting. I've been told that apparently the show-runner wanted more funny (darkly funny?) scenes with him and that's why that horrible tonal shift happened. If so, then this show isn't in good hands. It also ruined Demerzel until the final episodes. I think overall season 1 was better because it was more even. Season 2 was too inconsistent: the highest highs and the lowest lows. Maybe getting a bigger budget this time went to their heads. While the Empire-Trantor storyline was the highlight last season, this time it was just embarrassing until the very end. The Gaal-Salvor-Seldon plotline started well with lots of potential but then devolved into an over-extended messy finish. At first, the Mentalics planet and Tellem were interesting but then the whole thing with telekinesis and mind hopping, and Tellem coming back at the very end, was incredibly silly to me and I can't believe that's how Salvor was written off. I feel so bad for the two actresses that play Gaal and Salvor because Llobell is stuck playing a role that's essentially a living plot device and Harvey was clearly being wasted in an equally thankless role. I get the sense the writers have NO idea what to do with Gaal and by extension that whole plotline. The Clarics-Hober plotline was my favourite this season: it was interesting, consistent, fresh and well-executed. The actors were excellent, in particular Kulvinder Ghir as Poly. The Bel-Glawen storyline was also good but both these storylines suffered from a lack of screentime, which made their resolution lose a LOT of impact. We should have spent more time with these characters; they're new to this season and instead of giving us endless scenes of the same things in Trantor, they should have dedicated more time to them. Ben Daniels - who was acting circles around everyone - was ultimately wasted. To go back to the whole Empire thing, the matrimony issue and Sareth were initially interesting as well but then... I don't know what happened but it just wasn't good. The first episode of the season was a bad omen after all in that sense. Even the actors' performances declined gradually as it went on, like it's visible. Only in the last two episodes did that story have a highlight with the Demerzel reveal. Laura Birn, wasted until those episodes, was so good and I actually teared up at her scenes. But too little, too late.

I'm 4 episodes into season 2 and I'm loving it. I really like the concepts and themes they're working with so even when the execution falters I still enjoy it. Episode 1 of this season was a bad omen because it felt like a parody version of the show but ever since episode 2 it's just gotten better. All the new actors are excellent and the scale feels larger. They definitely had a bigger budget this time. @Ran Hober Mallow is the Han Solo-type character you mentioned, right? I see it He was even on a planet called Korell !!

So I finished season 1 and I absolutely loved it. I think this show appeals to what I like. The Emperors's storyline is without a doubt the best thing about the show, though, even acting-wise. If it was only about that, maybe with Seldon's machinations against the Empire as a parallel plot, it'd be even better. Because the other 2 storylines weren't very well balanced, and the one with Salvor and the Anacreons felt over-extended. I didn't think this show was confusing at all. I'm confused about people's confusion. Of course, if you look deeper you'll probably find inconsistencies especially with regards to Seldon's incredibly accurate predictions, but whatever. I don't nitpick to that extent especially when it's often something that comes with the territory in this kind of stories. I'm glad I didn't read anything about this show before or during it because I got to watch it with no expectations and that may have helped. I read the pages on this thread relating to season 1 and the overall negative opinions on the show kinda surprised me but I'm glad I hadn't read them before finishing the season. I haven't read the books either so I don't have that attachment to compare this to. Looking forward to watching season 2 which I believe ended recently? Also one final word about the actors who played Demerzel (intriguing character to say the least), Halima and the 19 year old Brother Dawn (who perfectly captured Lee Pace's whole energy). They were excellent. I was sad to see Halima go. Brother Dawn I think I will see again.

Oh wow, then the show really came up with something great regarding the genetic dynasty imo. Yes, I'm still midway through the 1st season. That's funny about Han Solo

I started watching this show this week. I'm 4 episodes in. I really like it so far! I haven't read the books nor did I have any knowledge of their plot or characters whatsoever and I'm not having any problems following or understanding the story. I read the first page of comments and I was surprised to find out people thought the first 2 episodes were slow paced. I thought they were incredibly rushed and crammed with way too much! Episode 3 slowed down the pace and I appreciated that. It was much better that way. I was also surprised to discover that the 3 Emperors scheme is not in the books (though the Emperor is still cloned, right?). I find it a brilliant concept and this whole genetic dynasty thing is fascinating and definitely a very interesting concept for a writer to play with. Concepts such as cloning and sentient droids (Demerzel) have a lot of room for thematic analysis and being connected to other concepts such as ruling, power and ancestry just makes it that more interesting to me. I'm really enjoying the mysterious storyline on Terminus as well. I love Salvor and I don't mind that she's "special". I can't say it's a Mary Sue situation when I'm only 4 episodes in and have no resolution or full context but regardless it doesn't bother me at all. I know, because I accidentally spoiled myself, that she's connected to Gaal and I'm looking forward to the development of that. I also came here to ask the book readers if the show - which is clearly not a 1-1 adaptation - is somewhat faithful in lifting elements from the books. I ask this because I find there's some similarities with Star Wars and since the books predate that movie/universe then either SW was inspired by it or this show came up with those elements while inspired by SW. Either way, it's fun. Now I'll be very carefully exiting this thread

I get what you mean about the huge praise for it. Granted, I'm not in a lot of online spaces but at least between me and my friends, we did find the season uneven, mostly as a consequence of its structure. But there's definitely things here at fault, namely Mysaria who I think it'd be fair to say comes across as a caricature, for example. Or how certain characters are underdeveloped, like the Velaryons or Helaena. Not to mention some of the technical aspects of the show, like the pacing or lighting. The only article I remember seeing was one in The Guardian about the terrible lighting in episode 7. But again, I'm not really on top of online discussion/articles. I definitely think that it's not as good as season 1 of GOT. It improved on the things GOT needed improving (sexual violence, sexposition, etc.), but otherwise I thought it wasn't as good. Still fine, of course, but not when compared to that season 1. And to go back to the technical aspects, I genuinely didn't think this show was extraordinary on that front. To start with, the lighting obscured some things. I also honestly felt like there was something weird about the sets and locations: it felt very stage-like sometimes, like they don't exist behind those doors and walls.* When I think back to GOT, however, that was not the impression I got (at least in the first seasons): even though the budget was so much smaller and there were a lot more characters and a lot more locations, the world felt open and wide like it had a bigger budget than this show. Hotd is very expensive, with fewer locations and characters, and it felt more "low budget" and closed off than GOT. I'm guessing CGI takes a huge slice of the budget. Maybe it's just the small number of locations. But in retrospect, it makes what they managed to do in season 1 of GOT an incredible achievement. But I do believe there's only room for improvement from now on, since there won't be any more drastic time skips in a very short amount of time. I am really looking forward to what they're going to do with Alicent, and her relationship with Rhaenyra. *I wonder if the pandemic enforced some restrictions on the production, as well. ** I just remembered that they built the Red Keep as a multi-storey (2 or 3 floors?) building inside a soundstage with actual rooms and staircases. While that is impressive, it also explains why the Keep on this show feels so claustrophobic and like a small set of rooms to me. I swear, it didn't feel like this on GOT from what I recall. (Sorry about the huge posts haha I got carried away)

I don't recall if this was already linked here but it's an interview with Ryan Condal for the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/23/arts/television/house-of-the-dragon-showrunner-ryan-condal.html I highlight this quote: It all goes back to Alicent and Rhaenyra and their fathers. The daughters grew up into adults who’ve been manipulated and poisoned by their fathers, in a world where they’re taught, as we talked earlier, about picking sides. They go on to perpetuate this division that began in the pilot. It’s all about them, and will continue to be.

I think in the scene itself Daemon says something like "my brother used prophecies to give a purpose to his weakness" or some such, right before he says "dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did". I definitely think he lost it because 1) he realized that Rhaenyra was following in her father's footsteps of being a level headed ruler, which he hated about Viserys seeing it as weakness (and here, I also think he might have been shocked to see that she wouldn't just follow him but instead assert her own decisions), 2) finding out Rhaenyra is privy to knowledge (relating to their family) that he isn't aware of and that nobody thought he was worthy of receiving. I think part of his character is feeling the need to have power over women, so when Rhaenyra here "escaped" from under his influence, he snapped, because now he knows that she was Chosen in a special way and that now she's the queen and can give him orders. He's lost the power he thought he had over her. At least, that's my interpretation. Regarding GOT, you're absolutely right that they didn't seem interested in pursuing the prophecy/fantasy side of things. Which is why the inclusion of this prophecy in Hotd seems stupid or weird to a lot of viewers.

It's a prophecy apparently passed down from king to heir, and it comes from Aegon the Conqueror himself, so I do think at least those in the know do believe in prophecies or at least regard them as important (after all, the Targaryens survived because of one). So I do think that was established as not just something Viserys was concerned with. Daemon's reaction was more because he saw how Rhaenyra was her father's daughter, following in the same foolish things, in his perspective (and also how she has Targaryen-related knowledge that he doesn't have), but we, the audience, know it's actually something important and that also he was left out of it because he was never considered an adequate heir.

I.....don't have any words for any of that... Truly being offline is probably the best choice with this show.

Agreed. And I personally agree with them. That is, in how their approaching his character. I genuinely don't get this outrage about Daemon. I mean, from the Daemon stans who somehow thought he was prince charming, yes I get that they would be mad. But that misinterpretation is not the show's fault because there's nothing on the actual show that gives that impression. On the contrary, it was explicitly shown, multiple times, that he is very capable of doing what he did to Rhaenyra. And I also believe that that wouldn't be far fetched even for his book counterpart. I'm just so confused by this reaction and by the crew and cast members being asked to explain it like it's something out-of-character.

Agreed! Alicent and Rhaenyra's relationship is truly the centerpiece of the show and I'm glad it is because it's been great to follow it through it all. As you say, their love for each other that still lingers is so realistic and special. I've really, really enjoyed it.

But I personally thought only Matt Smith's most recent wig was bad. The others were fine.

Forgot to mention how good Emma D'arcy was. They and Paddy Considine were the best actors on the show for me. (Speaking of, I thought Rhaenyra's hair in the coronation scene slightly resembled Viserys' which was a nice touch, if deliberate). And for once, I didn't think the lighting on this episode was ever bad at all. Excellent music, too.

I agree with you. Just thinking about characters like Laena and Vaemond (even Corlys) who could have had more development, besides the ones you mentioned. Or Baela and Rhaena, who didn't even have lines this episode! Or even the people in the Small Council, the Kingsguard, etc. They've already come up with so much more than what's in the books, I'm sure they could have made it work and create longer, more cohesive arcs for some of the supporting characters. Cause it did feel like some things were only on the show because the writers had a list with bullet points that needed to be crossed out, when they didn't have the time to properly set it up, develop it, and resolve it. And it didn't need to end with Storm's End, it could have continued a little bit more into Blood and Cheese and all that, in 10 episodes. That said, they still did a reasonable job.

Agree with this completely. Now that the season is over, I see how the writers wanted to convey all of this, in a more humanized, complex, tragic way than the book. I, for one, totally support it.

I absolutely loved it. Best of the season for me, probably. I do prefer this part of the story - the second half of the season - much more and it delivered. Honestly, if they had omitted the first 5 episodes, and made the other 5 into 8 or 10 episodes, I think a lot of issues on the show could have been resolved, namely regarding the supporting characters and plot points that are very undercooked or were quickly dealt with and forgotten, and reduce the amount of time skips/actor changes in such a short amount of time. Either way, I felt they did a good job with this season.

Oh understood. I wasn't sure which part of the character we were agreeing on but yeah exactly.