Marysa Blackfyre

Are you saying Brandon didn't care if it was a kidnapping or not? It seems realistic. Some time ago I read a theory that someone would deliberately lie so that Brandon would die. Could it be Littlefinger's work? We know he was supposed to be in the Vale, but I doubt he was comfortable while Brandon was marrying Catelyn. Maybe he was following them, maybe he saw Lyanna run away and took the opportunity, saying to someone, "Tell Brandon that Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar". It may have been the first of his subterfuges, but since he was still young it wasn't about the Throne yet, maybe it was just a desire to send Brandon away and stop him from marrying Catelyn.

We remember that Lyanna was obstinate and rebellious. How can you see her there stuck and think of a kidnapping? Maybe it's my imagination problem.

Look, I said that I don't agree with this theory. Just don't because of the timeline. But that's all, I don't agree just like you. By the way, I still don't understand how it's possible that someone told Brandon "Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar". To know that she had been kidnapped by Rhaegar they must have seen Lyanna with Rhaegar's knights. Didn't they also see that she wasn't rebelling or screaming? Didn't they see that she was riding with them spontaneously?

Lyanna disappeared "with the beginning of the new year" cit. It means she disappeared in January, if not the first days of the month, anyway soon. Rhaegar was in Dragonstone and Dragonstone is very close to the Riverlands. I'm uncertain about this theory, but I'm convinced the timeline is right. About Harrenhal ... So according to this quote, there ware warm winds when the Seven Kingdoms knights set out on their way to the tourney. So the tourney was held IN the False Spring of 281, which precisely brought warm wind to Westeros. When was the False Spring? False Spring lasted less than two turns = less than two months. Winter returns only the last day of the year with a vengeance (the snow), so the False Spring was from November to December. So Harrenhal's tourney was in November. I know some pregnant women can hide their belly for four, five months. As I said, I'm not convinced of this theory because of Lyanna's personality, but the timeline does not deny this possibility.

I tried again but still, I can't solve it. Something must have gone wrong, I see that the topic is confusing.

Regarding the temporal problem, in the case of two births with 9 months of separation. as GRRM said, there is a part of the theory that I have not written. "All of which is a long-winded way of saying, no, Jon was not born "more than 1 year" before Dany... probably closer to eight or nine months or thereabouts." First of all, he talked about "Dany" and we know he likes to play with the words. If Daenerys was Rhaella's dead child, well yeah Jon is born before that child. Following my theory, we supposed that Daenerys' real name is Visenya, she was only exchanged with Dany. Some time ago, he played a similar trick, saying that the child in Dany's vision in the Undying was dead. Well if Aegon is (f)Aegon then it's obvious that the child in Dany's vision is dead.

Melisandre is certain of many things, but in my opinion, she's not really certain, also because she's not omniscient and she's wrong too. So we are giving up Azor Ahai with a sword in his hand, right? No Lightbringer? Actually I have an option. That is, whoever was born in that tower is Lightbringer because Rhaegar was Azor Ahai, born from smoke and salt in the Summerhall disaster, and Lyanna his Nissa Nissa. Lyanna's death is the sacrifice that Nissa Nissa also made.

That's why I think that R+L=J will be revealed in TWOW, even in the end it's fine.

No. once it made me edit, then I realized that I had not changed something else, and it did not allow me to edit a second time.

- You're right, I didn't think about the phantom thing and the red port connected to the Tower of Joy. That's a great idea! - No, no doubt Ned wouldn't have trusted the Martells. Also, I don't think he would have crossed Dorne with two newborns to Sunspear. I think the Daynes could have trusted them. Maybe. Also, one thing that makes me think, is that it is difficult to travel with newborns who need to be breastfed. Jon may have been born before. I think it's likely that Ned left Dany newborn, in need of breastfeeding, in Starfall, which is close to the Tower of Joy. This is because Jon and Dany can be twins, but also just brother and sister because about two years pass from Lyanna's disappearance to her finding. - I didn't get your point of view. You believe in R+L= D and J? Or just D?

I have to edit my last topic, but the button "edit" can't be clicked.

ATTENTION. This theory is not based on LEMON TREES. Yes, you got it right. The lemon tree could have been planted in a garden of a Sealord in Braavos, remember that Viserys was hosted by wealthy men ... or Dany could actually be in Dorne. However, the hot spots are others. In my opinion, Daenerys and Jon are twins, but GRRM is the master and he could even knock down R+L=J. I honestly do not know how, because I believe it strongly, but he seems to leave many doors open. Abandon prejudices, forget preconceptions and read everything before commenting, because I intend to analyze closely what GRRM hides on Daenerys. Get on board! BACKSTORY Rhaella gave birth to a dead child, as has always happened, or died while Viserys and Ser Willem Darry were sailing away from Dragonstone. Well, it's simple, Daenerys (the one we all see) replaced Rhaella's dead daughter. The truth would have only made Robert infuriated against Ned who saved Dany, against who hid her and then Robert personally would have chased Rhaegar's daughter to the ends of the world. She was born in Dorne, together with Jon, in the Tower of Joy and then entrusted to some Dornish faithful to the Targaryens, or rather faithful to Rhaegar (cough ... Daynes ... cough). Ned Stark has time to take Daenerys to Dorne, in fact, what does he do after finding Lyanna? He goes to Starfall, to Ashara Dayne to bring her brother's sword back. My theory is simple: he had one more important thing to do in Dorne, leaving Daenerys to the care of the loyalists Targaryen. The sword was a simple excuse, the official reason if someone had asked him why he was stopping off in Starfall. So when was Daenerys brought to Essos? This is a vision of Dany in the House of the Undying. She sees the past and it almost seems we're seeing her first encounter with Ser Willem Darry (who was with the allegedly dead baby when they escaped from Dragonstone). It almost seems that Dany and Ser Willem Darry have just met. He enters the room and "Little princess, there you are". He seems to ask her to trust in a stranger. "Come, come to me." It seems he is welcoming her for the first time. "Now you're home, now you're safe." Now there are two possibilities: 1. Ser Willem Darry went to pick up Dany from Starfall, in her room with a red door and a lemon tree. This explains why she is already in the room while he has just arrived. 2. Someone took Daenerys to Braavos, perhaps Oberyn who went to deal with Viserys or perhaps a Dayne. WHAT ABOUT VISERYS? I read this "Why should Viserys fear Dany? Being a male, he has more right than she does." No. People have spent months saying that Jon isn't really the legitimate heir because the Baratheons have conquered Westeros. In fact, no one has any right, who wants the Throne must conquer it with the armies. Viserys grew up with this conviction. Now imagine that this little girl, half Targaryen and half Stark, appears in his life. Well, Daenerys would have more armies than him, in his mind. Also, between the two, their alleged allies of Dorne would have no problem choosing her if she claimed the Throne. They don't give precedence to men over women. Do you remember how jealous he was of her when he saw that Dany was loved by the Dothraki? It will be exactly the feeling he felt when he found out who her parents are. She still has a real family alive, he doesn't. Seriously, I don't see why he had to tell her who she really is. However, he can't kill her because otherwise, he would be alone, but first, he thinks of marrying her and then decides to use her as a bargaining chip. One thing is certain: Think about it. All Daenerys knows is what Viserys has chosen to tell her. All we know is what Viserys told Dany. The rest are stories heard by the people of Westeros about a hypothetical little girl who survived a terrible storm and even a very long boat trip. Who can assure us that this child survived? After all Rhaella's babies died within a year? LYANNA DEATH Why don't I think Jon killed Lyanna? Jon like Viserys is not a real dragon to me. There is no evidence that he is a real dragon, he looks more like a Stark and does not prove to have Targaryen characteristics. His mother's traits have prevailed over his father's. No one would associate Jon with a dragon. Lyanna was a healthy woman, while Rhaella was seak. It took a dragon to reduce Lyanna dying into a bloodbath. This could be Daenerys, born after Jon. CONNECTIONS BETWEEN DANY AND JON There are obvious connections between Jon and Daenerys, it is clear to everyone. At the same time I have to tell you, are we sure that the connection between Jon and Daenerys is the loving one and not one of two TWINS that have been separated? Aunt and nephew's travels are not parallel, aunt and nephew don't say the same sentences while twins often recite the same words and have similar thoughts. Both she and Jon are The Song of Ice and Fire. She looks like Targaryen and he looks like Stark, but both are the two things. They are two halves that complement each other. It's said that he is a bastard and she is the daughter of the Mad King. What if they are not? George Martin tells Alfie Allen that Jon and Daenerys are like Luke and Leia Skywalker. What are Luke and Leia? Twins. CONNECTIONS BETWEEN DANY AND RHAEGAR We're constantly being told about Dany that is very similar to Rhaegar. It seems pointless to me to cit it, since it is written everywhere. Coincidence because he was her brother or it was a GRRM foreshadowing? She is ALWAYS compared to Rhaegar. Daenerys dreams a lot about Rhaegar. She sees him in her visions. She wonders what Rhaegar would have done in certain situations. She even wonders if he felt the same things she feel. In a dream, she imagines being in his armor. She actually thinks more about him than about her alleged parents. I think there is something special going on between Daenerys and Rhaegar, more than brother and sister, father and daughter. CONNECTIONS BETWEEN DANY AND THE STARKS (this part break my heart) Robb Stark. Daenerys in the House of the Undying had to see things about herself but she sees Robb Stark's death. It could only mean that Robb was part of her family. Why does Ned dream of broken promises even more while he is at King's Landing serving Robert? Is Daenerys that part of the promise he failed to keep? The fact that at King's Landing you think even more constantly about the promise makes no sense, Jon is a thousand miles away from Robert and no one can discover his secret, it is Daenerys who is threatened. He becomes totally obsessed with the promise and I thought it might be because Varys says he's already sent someone to kill Dany. Ned can't do anything, and he doesn't know if she's okay or if she's dead. Does the dragon remember? Wasn't the North and the Starks remembering? This could be GRRM foreshadowing. Where to start? It seems that Dany identifies Rhaegar as "her home" and once again she doesn't think about her "parents". She opens the door in search of her home and sees Rhaegar. First of all, dragons don't howl, wolves howl. Attention. Dany runs towards the red door (which for her means home) and behind her, she hears a cold breath, which made me think about the Long Night. We will talk about Dany-Long Night later. RED DOOR = HOME, COLD BREATH = LONG NIGHT. She is afraid of not being able to reach "home", howling forever alone in the darkness (Long Night). Do you follow me? The house she is looking for is the North, the pack she is looking for are the Starks. Her heart fears not to reach them in time, before the Long Night. If she turns out to be Nissa Nissa and sacrifices herself to save the North and the Starks, my heart will be shattered. But we will come back later on this point. Ned's words: Notice how well it fits... They (the Starks) must keep themselves warm during the winter or they will die. Even Daenerys feels the cold behind and runs home, where she will be kept warm because if she stays alone (howling forever alone) in the winter (darkness) she knows she will die (the lone wolf dies). Winter is coming and she feels the need to find her pack. HOWLING FOREVER ALONE IN THE DARKNESS = THE LONE WOLF DIES ARMS TO KEEP HER WARM = IN WINTER WE MUST KEEP WARM Arya remembers her father's words while she was in Harrenhal and seems to hear a lone wolf howling in the world... who I'm suggesting is Dany, otherwise, we'd be talking about Westeros, not the whole world. VISIONS IN THE HOUSE OF UNDYING AND OTHER DREAMS (my favourite part) In a vision of Daenerys, Rhaegar talks about a third head of the dragon. He says he needs a third child. The detail is that while he says it he literally looks at her! Rhaegar talks about the third head and looks towards Dany, a detail that I think has been underestimated over the years. Someone thought Rhaegar was talking to Daenerys, but I think he's talking ABOUT her. She's called 'Daughter of Death' after being shown specifically Rhaegar's death. Not her presumed father's. Not her presumed mother's. Not Lyanna because it would be too obvious. But Rhaegar's. But there is also Lyanna in this picture because Rhaegar pronounces a woman's name, which could be that of Lyanna. It fits. Daughter of death, both Rhaegar and Lyanna. The word blue is pronounced many times while Dany is in the house of Undying. And blue is a reminder of winter roses and Lyanna. The stars say that dragons (it could indicate Dany's ancestors) know who Daenerys is while she doesn't know who she is. Immediately after the "remember who you are" things... I think it's all connected. Daenerys dreams of being Rhaegar while she continues to hear the whispers of the stars "remember who you are". She feels pain and fire, which made me think about the pain that Rhaegar and Lyanna felt dying ("there was only pain"). GRRM tells us that Rhaegar was cremated ("the fire inside her", "the taste of ashes"). DAENERYS MEMORY = QUAITHE Much of this theory is based on Daenerys' memory, which seems to have discrepancies. As Sansa has a selective memory, even Dany may have removed part of her childhood because of the beating of Viserys. Fear does strange things to the mind. As early as 2017, Martin interviewed in Russia, holding a Q&A with Fantastic Assembly. Fans took to Reddit to provide translations: So in the next book, we will have a revelation about the famous red door. I think Quaithe will help Dany remember that that red door is connected to a childhood she doesn't remember. In fact, GRRM tells us that we will have a revelation about the red door and Quaithe insists with Dany telling her to remember. She must remember something about the red door. So, when Quaithe repeats to Daenerys: She asks Daenerys to unlock her memory and remember who she really is. Otherwise, she'll never go on, she won't find a reason to go to Westeros, she won't fight alongside the Starks in the Long Night and if Dany is Nissa Nissa, Quaithe thinks it's important that she goes. Quaithe again: The Undying. Robb's death's vision, Rhaegar says he needs another dragon and looks at her, Ser Willem Darry who seems to have just met her, the things of the red door and lemon tree if you like. Last Dragon, as Rhaegar was called. "Fire and Blood", revenge on the enemies. BUT ... Does Quaithe care if Daenerys takes the Throne? She comes from Asshai, like Melisandre, and she also follows the God of Light. So, like Rhaegar, they think about Prince who was Promised, Long Night, Song of Ice and Fire, etc.. Dany's motto could also be that of Lyanna. "Winter is Coming" and once again Quaithe pushes Daenerys to take the field against the White Walkers, an important cause. "What you were made to be". In practice, we have to ask ourselves what GRRM has planned for Dany's final because Quaithe is clearly asking Dany to do the mission of her life. Dany is Nissa Nissa and Jon is Azor Ahai, the saviors of Westeros, the song of Ice and Fire, as Rhaegar had planned. Terrible and tragic. Once again the Undying returns and Daenerys die lighting her real last fire, Lightbringer, the sword that will use Jon in the final war. "The North Remembers", remember who you really are.

If we talk about "claim", yes. Although I am totally on the side of the Targaryens, they have lost, Rhaegar is dead and Robert has taken the Throne. However, they have not lost their influence, not totally. There are those who would prefer a return of the Targaryens. It's now clear that we can't talk about legitimacy. The Throne would legitimately belong to Stannis, but who wants the Seven Kingdoms must take them with the armies (or with dragons).

Something shocking about Dany vs Stannis, because it seems to include a "couple of characters", one dead character in the show and another character alive. Or maybe something about Ser Barristan Selmy, or Shireen.

Not in order. Jon discovering his lineage Jon Snow's resurrection Cersei's trial Arya back to Westeros Ramsay's death Willas and Garlan Tyrell give a lesson to the Iron Fleet (Willas seems really strategic, he's already anticipated their moves) Jaqen H'Ghar at Oldtown Hardhome