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Jon The Dragon

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  1. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    Gulltown would of been a means to an end, once its generating many times what it used to he would get noticed. If Littlefinger is Braavos' man or Illyrio's then that job is the first rung on the ladder to power, and an education in money. Illyrio needs to be leaving Pentos by the time Dany gets there, she could be pissed when she finds out about Aegon and his lovely upbringing from Tyrion! The Faceless Men seem to be looking in Oldtown for a solution to the coming dragon problem. Could all the political goings on in Westeros be a covert proxy war between Pentos and Braavos?
  2. Jon The Dragon

    Mel & Shireen

    The NW won't abandon their post, but with that letter it may give Jon enough excuse to leave without being scrutinised about his vows. Mance would know there are more Wildlings than the ones at CB, he also knows the NW are letting people through. Maybe the purpose of the demand for the family members is just there to enrage whoever is at CB to respond militarily, knowing they won't give up hostages to Ramsay. It's all speculation anyway. Only definite thing we know is GRRM wrote that damn letter
  3. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    Littlefinger manipulates Lysa to get Jon Arryn to give him the job at Gulltown. Jon Arryn rises in power and Littlefinger piggy tails with him. When you make a lot of money people notice! I believe he works for the IB though, and they bankroll him. The end objective is having one of your own in the highest positions possible.
  4. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    I think Ilyrio's plan is to simply crown Aegon, anything else is a bonus, he's rich already so money isn't a motive. I like how you can see that plot being deeper with Illyrio and Littlefinger, that idea could possibly have some legs. If Illyrio was the Master of Coin he could control the Seven Kingdoms through finance for Aegon and maybe enrich Pentoshi banks further instead of Braavos. The Cheesemonger puppetmaster.
  5. Jon The Dragon

    Mel & Shireen

    Yes I did, Mance would know Jon has no problem dealing with Wildlings if needed, he's shown he can negotiate with them, and he knows a Wildling force are at CB after surrendering to Stannis. Stannis does know about the army actually, they surrendered to him! He was going to take them to the Dreadfort, but Jon persuades him to leave them at the wall with him and explains if he goes another route he can get the mountain men to fight for him. Stannis agrees. Tormund arrives after with additional Wildlings. I'm not saying Jon is going to deliver any hostages at all, not to Ramsay anyway. That letter is worded in a way so that it enrages every faction at CB. It threatens everyone. It could be enough to provoke an angry response.
  6. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    Very interesting look on things, I never looked at it that way. I assumed Varys and Littlefinger are playing separate games, this would make them allies. Varys' plan seemed to be tied with Illyrio and Aegon the secret Targaryen. Somehow they got those dragon eggs too, I suspect they are the ones Alyssa Farman ones sold to Braavos. Littlefinger's plan seems to be tied with activities from Braavos. His family history and activities made me suspect him being in league with Braavosi institutions. The Iron Bank could have helped him with finances in Gulltown. I think Braavos were unaware of Aegon, they may be unaware of him even now. You do make good arguments for all of that though. I agree Pentos and Braavos have some issues to settle. There is a financial situation occurring in Westeros manufactured by other people.
  7. Jon The Dragon

    Mel & Shireen

    I don't know who wrote it, I'm just speculating like everyone else, with some of their reasoning mixed with my own. It divides opinion. Stannis - To draw Jon down from Castle Black to gain further legitimacy in The North, with his and Mances family (assuming he knows about Mance). He might assume Jon would probably come down with a Wildling army. Mance - Say the battle with Stannis has happened, the Freys are eliminated but Winterfell isn't taken yet. A raven could arrive saying Stannis has lost, the Manderly and Karstark force could enter Winterfell saying Stannis has fallen. Roose would think his plan with the Karstarks has worked. Mance fearing the battle to actually be lost needs to think of another plan. With a letter stating Mances death it might be enough to provoke Jon and the Wildlings to come down for revenge. Stannis' family would make good hostages if Winterfell is taken. Ramsay - Lots of reason to be him, people explained these reasons better than I can. It's a shame Mance and his spearwives go out like that if so.
  8. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    If you own a bank which lends to foreign governments, it would help massively if you had one of your own working inside those governments. Especially in financial positions. He was Master of Coin, owned the 4 Keeper of The Keys, The Kings Counter and The Kings Scales, toll collectors and the harbour masters, the City Watch and the staff working the jail. Tyrion notices how many men in positions are Littlefingers people, he basically ran the place financially. Littlefinger has used his financial success to gain power in the realm, slowly but surely he gains while others slowly diminish.
  9. Jon The Dragon

    Mel & Shireen

    In a nutshell Stannis wrote the PL - to get Jon and his family down from the wall and to forget his vows, The north would stand behind Jon as a Stark (Stannis might not know about Mance or Rickon though) Ramsay wrote the PL - Because he's a nutter, wants the fight and to kill everyone (poor Mance!) Mance - Because he might think the battle is lost, especially if a raven brings a false message as Stannis has the Maester with his ravens, and the Karstark / Manderly force returns with Lightbringer. All 3 have potentials, good arguments by everyone for all of them to have wrote it
  10. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    You can trace back Braavosi influence in Westeros right back to Aegons conquest, They tried to help The Vale. They also managed to purchase 3 eggs from Alyssa Farman and built Sunchaser, It seems Braavos has been trying to gain a foothold of power in Westeros for centuries. Through the Iron Bank they can rule nations and enforce the debt or choose regime change with the Faceless Men. It would make sense if they had an agent working for them setting things up. That's where I suggest Littlefinger. Braavosi influence could make sure he did exceptionally well at Gulltown, hoping to get notice at Kings Landing. The plan would have no place for his weird thing with Sansa though. I think his emotions will ruin the plan. Basically a foreign spy failing in his big plan because of love for the enemy. The human heart in conflict. Even Arya's targets have a financial consequence. The ship insurer, the envoy from Kings Landing and possibly the new Sealord, or to influence who gets the new Sealords job. Braavos does seem to have a lot of people around The Starks at points, pulling strings and influencing. Syrio, Jaqen, Littlefinger, Tycho etc. Is it all just a coincidence?
  11. Jon The Dragon

    How did you pick your screen name?

    I didn't want it
  12. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    Tough one about who ruined the Crowns finances, Robert just asked for money and it was down to Littlefinger to find it, it never ran out. Littlefinger also hired so many fake extra people for jobs and used that money to make himself rich. A lot of the key positions in Kings Landing were Littlefingers people as he paid their wage. While gaining titles and small council power. I thought the Iron Bank had built a notorious reputation of getting paid, be that from who owes it or from his replacement. If Stannis did die, then Littlefinger has a relationship with the Tyrells, that would need some bribery about knowledge of the Purple Wedding or Cersei and Tommen removing from the equation. Or Jon's identity could be revealed up North and they back him, knowing he pays up. Maybe even Aegon. They do need someone to stick that tab onto. Who'd want to be king haha.
  13. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    If there is a King who might not pay, they will speculate on his replacement. Makes sound business sense to make sure you can collect. You are probably right there, I just find it a coincidence he was the one who would deal with the Iron Bank all the time as Master of Coin, and embezzled money to build the debt, making himself rich. Eventually using that trust built to gain more titles. PLus he has a family connection to Braavos. A Braavosi agent as Master of Coin dealing with the Iron Bank would be quite funny. If he used Sansa correctly, he would control 3 Kingdoms, the biggest army remaining of those 3 Kingdoms and the food supply. It isn't just the Crown that is owed money, Tywin is too. The richest man in the kingdom is controlled to an extent. If Littlefinger is a Braavosi connection then hiding Jaqen in the black cells to prepare an assassination wouldn't be hard as he owned all the prison guards. Ned gave Jaqen over to the NW though and Robert died due to Cersei. Jaqen was watching Arya from the cage on their journey and pretty much gave her identity away, before she freed him from the cage. Hiding from Lannister soldiers and shouting Winterfell on a charge probably gave the game away. He had a blood debt to pay to Arya, paid it and left, probably to get a new mission before showing up in Oldtown. Arya wasn't in the mission, but she's handy, so gave her a coin. He see's value in her somehow. I think the business with Jon was because he has a Stark reputation attached to him, it's good business. Tycho came to the wall for Stannis, not Jon. It was an opportunist deal. They want to go and find Stannis, that's where the good business is at, twenty thousand troops isn't going to be cheap, and with all the food and transport they need! He also agrees to take on the Crowns debts, that's huge business. And lastly I know Littlefinger is obsessed with Sansa and that's why I think whatever plan he has in the long run will end with her. She's his strength at the moment, but will be his biggest weakness. Starks seem to be cared about and worth quite a lot to be fair, even fake ones! Cheers for your input, nice to see different opinions to my own.
  14. Jon The Dragon

    Iron Bank, Littlefinger and The Faceless men

    Hopefully the edit is easier to understand I'm not the greatest at putting the words down to explain things. I'm just curious if all these events could be connected in some way. A Braavosi conspiracy, financial puppet masters.
  15. I wonder how much influence the Iron Bank have on things behind the scenes, This is an assumption that the IB, Faceless men and Littlefinger are all working together to basically own Westeros, through finance and to own whoever wears the crown, or to enforce regime change. Braavos ties the three together. If that is the case it would show their ability to adapt to, and take advantage of changes on the ground, and how they lay the foundations to replace rulers who might not play ball. The order might be slightly out in places and it could be wrong in how things tie together, interesting to think about. 1, King Aerys falls out with the IB, Tywin pays the debt instead with Lannister wealth, showing he is willing to pay the crowns debt - Issue settled. 2. Aerys and Tywin fall out, Tywin isn't paying that debt off again, so the crowns debt builds once more - Situation needed for a new person to owe that money as Aerys descends into madness.. 3. Rebellion happens, the Targaryens are gone. Tywin backs a new winner with Cersei's hand, Robert takes the debt but doesn't care about money so leaves that to other people - Creating an opportunity for LF to load a crown and Casterly Rock in debt. 4. IB finding out about the incest through LF, Tywin is tied to the crown with his grandkids identity. LF hedges his bets, spreads rumours. - Potentially need to find people who will honour that debt, the Starks or Stannis could be a desirable option as they have a reputation of doing what they say, entice them to KL in case of succession crisis. LF kills Jon Arryn. 5. Tywin may have communicated his willingness to guarantee the crowns debt, The debt now has a name to it, with a person who paid a crowns debt before. Situation changes. (No proof of this though) 6. FM are in kings landing, (LF runs the jail) possibly to start the succession with Roberts death. Cersei does the killing for them instead by chance. LF offers Ned the opportunity to seize power, the offer gets refused, so LF betrays Ned, House Lannister seize the crown, but the incest secret is out, Ned dies causing war. 7. Dragons return to the world, potential problem on the horizon, Dragons are an existential threat. Research is needed to kill them - Find out where and send the FM to retrieve it. 8. The IB arrive at KL to talk about the debt, Tyrion sends the envoy to LF. Joffery isn't showing he would take debt or kingship seriously at all. Crazy kings might not pay debts - Possible situation change needed. 9. Jaquen is on the way to the wall, works out Arya is a Stark and befriends her, gives her the coin as she may have a future use as a Stark. 10. LF kills Joffery and removes the Stark from KL, Tommen owes the debt now, guaranteed by Tywin, and is now also backed by Highgarden, which LF managed to bring into the equation. LF becomes Lord of Harrenhal and Lord protector of The Vale because of his moves. 11. Tywin dies, meaning the IB has lost its guarantor for the debt. They try to speak to Cersei but she tells them to basically go away. IB call in all loans, causing discontent in the realm - Who else can take the debt. 12. FM are in Oldtown, with information relating to dragons nearby and a glass candle - Keeping an eye on the future, aware of Braavosi history and dragons. 13. LF has hoarded food in The Vale, who better to sell it to, than people who have borrowed from the IB. Win win if he's working with the IB. If you control the money and food supply, you control a lot. 14. IB now deal with Jon, probably knowing he's a Stark and would honour a debt, business is business, and then Stannis, so he can take the crown and take on the debt. Basically going back to an earlier plan, back Starks and Stannis. 15, Arya is with the FM and Sansa is with LF being looked after. In effect they are Stark hostages if LF, FM and the IB are all working together. Or they could be getting trained for future uses in the realm. Basically they want to be paid, and have someone on the throne who will be guaranteed to pay all the debt, and controllable. Are they big players in the story? And are the three factions working with each other as one? I'm not as eloquent as some of you, I hope this is understandable.
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