CamiloRP

At first glance y read "Lyanna" and was really confused. And major PTSD after Duskendale.

GRRM has written about something similar, the Grishka and Shkeen in A Song For Lya, they mean no harm, they just think death is better than life, and (in that context) are possibly right.

What? that's the worst argument ever. Writing a typical light side versus dark side story is not subverting expectations. He was relatively unknown when starting ASOIAF, so he wouldn't have banked on people knowing his sensibilities. Also, a good versus evil story is what most people expect, so he wouldn't be subverting anything. Also also, GRRM doesn't believe in purely good or purely bad beings, he doesn't believe that war or religion will save humanity and he doesn't agree with genocide, so he wouldn't put something so un-GRRM in his magnum opus, he would try to hold true to his beliefs. This is nonesense.

Given that they likely don't exist, no, they aren't bad. (Also I want to clarify that just muslim extremist believe that, definitely not all muslims). But those gods don't have an official way of communicating with their followers, Raloo does, so he could just simply send a bunch of visions saying 'hey, don't do this' and his people would listen, if he doesn't it's because he's an asshole. If you read other GRRM stories you would see that visions are either manipulation by telepaths or just plain bullshit. If you read more you would know that religious extremists are never right in his stories. And if you knew about his life you would know he has a huge grudge with religion, you would also know that he's really anti-war. Him making a god of war from the pantheon of the most sadistic religion in existence the savior of mankind is preposterous as hell. Nah, he just wants to kill 90% of the world, meaning everyone who doesn't worship him. Also, you don't know the Other's motives. That's what you think tho, based of two encounters with Others. If the only humans you'd meet where Joffrey and Ramsay you would think the humans are all sadists. What you know from the Others is based on biased tales by the Westerosi. The thing is, the Others are named after an anthropological concept of a group of people discriminated against because they are different, which makes me think they aren't monsters. There's also In The House Of The Worm, a GRRM short story in which other-like beings appear, humanity both fears and hates them, and they hate humanity too, in the end the protagonist works with one of them, discovers they are actually human and realizes they are humanity's salvation against climate change. And yes, the Others attacked, but they attacked trespassing armed humans in their land, and since humans are raised thinking the Others are literal monsters, the Others might feel similarly about humans. Open your mind. But the most important bit of 'evidence' of all: this is GRRM, he doesn't do 'light versus dark, good versus evil', he does complicated stories about the human condition, the human heart in conflict with itself. What sounds more like that, humanity joining forces to kill all-evil demons or humanity realizing they where wrong about these 'demons' and working for peace (or even more likely, humanity fighting these 'demons' while we realize it is completely wrong and will only cause more death and the destruction of both species). And GRRM likes subverting expectations, does he writing about an all evil race in chapter one of book one and ending the series with a battle against the evil race sound like a subversion? Like I said, he wrote about all these things before in many stories, he never wrote about a religious figure saving the world, a fight against good and evil or war saving humanity. Read, his work, specially The Armageddon Rag and In The House Of The Worm, not just because they are awesome, but because you might find more interesting stuff to analyze there than squinting at a random line in FAB to build a random family tree.

Yeah, absolutely, you know what I think tho, the prophecy is designed to make humans continue the cycle of violence. The prophecy is saying 'the way to solve this is with a badass sword'. So humanity won't look for other ways, they won't look for peace, they will only look to exterminate the 'other' as they always had.

That'd be very, let's say 'problematic' from George.

So, the god who's religion is based on burning people alive and hating anyone who doesn't practice it is the good guy? That's the least GRRM thing in the world. That would be proving right extremist (something he's fully against) and proving right the most disgusting people in Planethos.

Lynss right tho, while I don't personally agree with them, you keep acting like you have the absolute truth. There's no point in arguing with that. And it's close minded as hell.

Yeah I get that, but the primary source we have is Raloo, and it would be validating him most of all. That's how fortune-tellers work, isn't it? They are correct once or twice and then you trust in them forever. I talked about this in here before, but to me there are four types of visions: already happened (Ned's death in Bran's POV), can't not happen (a vulcanic eruption), self fullying (younger more beautiful queen) and instructions (Azor Ahai). So, a puppet master sees Ned's death, they send the information far away, and it validifies them. Similarly, they see a bunch of magma about to eruption, and predict a vulcanic eruption, more validation, the they can send whatever they want because people will believe them. And this is not me making stuff up, this shows up in other GRRM stories. Who send Daenys her visions? Why? As Meera says, why would the gods send visions of we can't change what's to come? Either they want to be validated or they are manipulating the one receiving the visions.

Well, I fundamentally mistrust prophecy, so I doubt it, I specially mistrust prophecy in asoiaf, as George beats us over the head with it not being trustworthy (and he does the same in his other works) and I specially mistrust Red Raloo's prophecy, as that religion is in the top two for the most disgusting religions and I doubt George would prove them right. Rhaegar can be wrong tho. I think prophecy is a mere tool of manipulation by telepathic pupetmasters. George has written about prophecy being a sort of manual (if you do X then Y will happen) so anyone could be Azor Ahai, as long a they follow the instructions. But that isn't a good thing as AA is a warrior, and is that what Westeros needs? More warriors? A warrior-king-god?

Oh yeah, that's definitely the case. Some day the world will end in ice Some day fire From what I tasted of desire I hold with those who favour fire But if I had to perish twice I think I know enough of hate To know that for destruction ice is also great And will suffice In Ice and Fire Robert Frost posses to ways of ending all, two apocalypses, ice and fire, while ignoring the third posible apocalypse, war. Ignoring it is the point tho. So yeah, ice fire and war and the three horsemen in Martin's world.

Also, read Armageddon Rag, that shit is filled with 'ice bad' imagery.

Except the story states that warrior Kings are bad Kings.

That would make George into a huge racist tho.

The problem here is that Jaqen is actually Aegon VI but he's not Young Griff, it is known.

Probably. I mean, think about it. Dragon bone is used to make the best bows, meaning it's likely very flexible, while dragonglass is, you know glass. And Obsidian is effing sharp. Students at the Cittadel cut their palms trying to ignite the glass candles, and those are not purposely sharp.

It's probably waaay less brittle and waaay less sharp

Many people think he didn't die, so that might be it, tho I don't necessarily buy it. Another thing might be to cause resentment/mistrust between Dany and the Martells. Freeing the dragons is an important consequence.

There are three pieces of evidence: Ramsay says that Theon isn't even a man, which I don't consider strong enough of an evidence, because Reek is no man in Ramsay's eyes, manhood or not; when Ramsay asks Theon to get Jeyne ready he says "I can't, I have no..." and Ramsay says to use his mouth; and Theon thinking about "that other thing" Ramsay took. Yet there's also evidence against it, Theon thinks about fucking a woman after his supposed castration, only to later think that he doesn't dare, (not that he can't). Theon also thinks that Ramsay only cuts things off after skinning them (and after the skinned begs for it) I think flaying a penis would be effin' hard. Some people take this to mean that George wanted to leave things open ended so he could chose what to do later, I do not like this, as the "other thing" line seems to obvious. Some people think that Ramsay convinced Theon that he cut off his penis without actually cutting it, I think it makes no sense. Truth be told, I can go either way, I strongly favour the belief that Theon's other thing was cut, but I wouldn't be surprised or outraged or anything if it wasn't the case.

Got it got it. I think the Smiling Knight is more than okayish, I think it's fair to assume it's on purpose. For Sandor tho, I would need another thing that connects him.

This are both really coold ideas I never considered before, bravo!

I think it's a very small coincidence at most tho. The giant that can only say a few words is a trope by now. Same problem with this: There are many characters with half burned faces throughout pop culture, and Sandor doesn't have, that I'm aware, any other resemblance to Two Face. The Smiling Knight-Joker thing is good, IMHO But then the rest... I find little to no connection buddy

Yeah, and she would have told Sansa in that rant. I'm not saying SR isn't LF's, there's not way Lysa could be certain (unless she didn't fuck LF around that time), but if Lysa doesn't think LF is the father, then he shouldn't either.

I've wanted to do a list of the many Dune references for a long time, but I was sure most of them where already pointed out, I just finished searching page by page, and most where, but I have two that weren't posted: In Dune there's a weasely evil dude that works as a counselor of the protagonist's opponents, he's also a scheming political player and his name is Piter (a weird spelling of the name Peter). The other one is that in Dune, Fremen culture is tied to the desert, in that desert lives a giant creature (a worm) that they call 'the old man of the dessert'. Rhoynar culture is tied to the Rhoyne, in the Rhoyne lives a giant creature (a turtle) that they call 'the old man of the river'. There's also something to be said about the natives of Westeros that are marginalized and aren't considered citizens being called "Freefolk" while the natives of Arrakis that are marginalized and aren't considered citizens being called "Fremen" but I think that's a coincidence.

maybe, but there's, IMHO, a more fun possibility: one thing I found interesting about Lancel is that he's been getting visions, yet we know in ASOIAF people can send visions, Quaithe, the Three Eyed Crow, Marwyn, and maybe even Euron. Lancel's visions have the result of him rejecting his land and testifying against Cersei to the High Sparrow, if the visions made him do this, the person who send them doesn't seem to like House Lannister