Corvus Black

False. The war is not being fought in Catelyn's name. It's a false equivalence.

That's just flat out not true. He had one bastard at the time: Mya Stone. Who he fathered at a time when he was not betrothed to Lyanna Stark. Lyanna also said that around the time she was first betrothed to Robert, and he in fact did stay loyal to her after that. We have nothing further from Lyanna to indicate she still felt that way, and at Harrenhal they were on friendly terms. Again, the war is being fought in Lyanna's name, and these are Riverlanders, not Stormlanders or Valemen. Ned is not Robert so this is a false equivalence.

Robert wasn't known for his whoring during those days, and the war was started - and fought for - because Rhaegar kidnapped Robert's betrothed at sword point. To say that, in these circumstances, Riverlanders would willingly provide Robert with whores is outlandish and nonsensical. Whoring during the war would lose him support, especially in other kingdoms, not gain him support.

We know that the brothel in Stoney Sept is called the Peach. No other brothel is mentioned anywhere, as you confirm, so I am confused as to why we would then assume that there are two or more brothels. The fact there are multiple brothels only seems to be important to you and Thomaerys, and is the basis for your argument so I can see why you would want things to side with your view. This view, however, should be supported by evidence. Oh, you mean AWOIAF, not TWOIAF. The case is even more tentative then. The book appendices do not state that Bella is Robert's bastard. They do with his other bastards. Did GRRM explicitly state to you that Bella is his bastard or is that speculation on your part that made it into the app? I know the app says she has blue eyes, which notably wasn't present in ASOS. Arya noted her hair colour as the only thing connecting her to Robert other than her "story". If Bella had blue eyes that would have been another connection to Robert. That her eyes being blue is not mentioned is significant in its absence from the text. As for Bella's "story", she says that Robert slept with the entire brothel, which we know can't be true based on the timeline. If one part of her "story" is false, I'm not sure why we would assume other parts are true.

Pure speculation on your part. Is speculation now fact? Using "a" instead of "the"? Am I to go through the books and use that as the basis for things now? A lot of wiki pages would change if that is how we did things.

This is the second time you've implied there are multiple brothels in Stoney Sept. I ask again: Have you got a source for that? I'm really not sure what the issue is. I'm not arguing against what TWOIAF says. It seems to me that you are contradicting it with your own suppositions, not me. I have provided a book quote - and remember, the books are the "supreme canon", even over what TWOIAF says - that Robert hid in the brothel last. You are speculating on the time he spent in a brothel and what he did in that brothel. Do either the books or TWOIAF say he did what Bella says he did?

This is the first I'm hearing of Stoney Sept having multiple brothels. Have you got a source for that? Otherwise it sounds like a reach when the rest of the quote is straightforward. Jon is shocked that an enemy commander would hide in a brothel. There's absolutely no reason to think that implies anything other than what it is.

His knights went house to house, smashed in every door, peered into every cellar. He had even sent men crawling through the sewers, yet somehow Robert still eluded him. The townsfolk were hiding him. They moved him from one secret bolt-hole to the next, always one step ahead of the king's men. The whole town was a nest of traitors. At the end they had the usurper hidden in a brothel. This part. It's quite clear he didn't spend a significant amount of time anywhere, and that the brothel was the final hiding spot. It's also quite clear that Jon's men were searching the town thoroughly. Note how they "went house to house, smashed in every door, peered into every cellar. He had even sent men crawling through the sewers".

Have you followed the source for the Campaign Guide? It links to GRRM's Not A Blog.

Oh wow. That is selective quoting at its finest. You've cut off the part about Robert being moved from place to place so that Jon's men could not find him. Here's the full passage:

Okay, so the Campaign Guide remains semi-canon per the Referencing and Canon guide. This brings up another matter I want to discuss: Bella being Robert's bastard. Now the Campaign Guide says she is but I believe this is simply a matter of the author(s) taking Bella's "story" in ASOS at face value, rather than it being a fact. There is no evidence in the books that the "story" is true. Jon Connington's memories of the Battle of the Bells contradict the "story". The book appendices do not state that she is Robert's bastard, which they do for Robert's other bastards. On this basis, would it not be the correct process to change the appropriate pages to indicate that Bella is only supposedly Robert's bastard instead of treating it like it is a fact?

As I understood it according to Referencing and Canon, the Campaign Guide is semi-canon and is thus authoritative unless contradicted by the books or a more recent source. Specifically on the List of tourneys in Westeros page I put Yohn Royce as the champion of the melee and as a participant in the melee. Originally the champion slot was left blank, and only Robert Baratheon and Jon Arryn were listed as participants with no source for why Jon Arryn was listed. The Tourney at Harrenhal page already had Yohn Royce listed as the champion of the melee and as a participant in the melee, and noticeably does not have Jon Arryn listed as a participant.

Hi everyone! I'm Corvus Black, and my wiki editor account has just been approved. A long time fan of ASOIAF but a new member of this particular forum, I've noticed some missing or inaccurate information on a few articles on the wiki. I want to help clean it up and make it as accurate as possible.

These titles are both concise and faithful to the wording. Note the first should also be 134 AC though. There is an error on the 134 AC page as it states that Dagon Greyjoy died and links to his page instead of Dalton. On that note, Ran, I have applied for a wiki account but have not received an approval email yet. Edit: I have now corrected the 134 AC page.

Thomaerys has the right of it. We want the least cumbersome title. One that leaves no room for ambiguity, while staying as faithful as possible to Gyldayn's wording.