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Loras

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  1. I completely disagree with you, and your posts on cancel culture do not reflect my view. The idea that someone should not be challenged because they might withhold something that you want is wrong. If people feel that someone should be challenged about what they are saying on their platform or due to their platform, it is legitimate and shouldn’t be trivialised. Being an apologist for someone’s behaviour because you think that will prevent you from getting something that you want - I invite you to reflect on your post and how it comes across. This is a forum, and there will always be different views and discourse around a number of topics, but for me, the above post is moving towards offensive. George has apologised for the Hugo’s and I hope that he has reflected on the criticism. As a professional, I am sure that it will have no impact on his ability to deliver the next book in his series.
  2. Does anyone know whether Martin will be doing a reading as part of his appearance at Worldcon?
  3. I agree that The Green Grace wants peace on her own terms. But then, all of the characters want things on their own terms. Interesting. I’m not sure I agree that The Green Grace should be dead, religious war would aggravate all of the Ghiscari based cities in the region. I agree that the slavers should be destroyed, but Dany doesn’t have any other economy to support the city - this is mentioned again and again in her chapters. Without a trade economy Meereen would die too - she doesn’t really think about how to build a new economy in her chapters. Absolutely, he isn’t a good guy. He is a shrewd businessman, he bought all the pits and persevered until they were open again. He may not be an important figure in the conspiracy theory, but he is the king of Meereen. Do you believe then that Skahaz is a ‘good guy’ (relative term) and his recruitment of Barristan into the coup was for noble causes? Restoration of Daenerys’ power? I’m asking because I think that interpretation of this specific character’s motives really changes the way you view Barristan’s arc in Dance is.
  4. I think it’s really hard to say. I think it is significant that we only get into Jon Connington‘s head after he has found out about his terminal illness. He knows he has a limited time left, but admits that he doesn’t know exactly how long, and wants to accomplish his mission. It would be entirely natural for Jon to grieve for himself as well as all those that he has lost around him. Rhaegar, Myles, and Elia are the three main figures from the past that he reflects on - though two significant ones are missing in the shape of Lyanna (who we think Elia will remind him of) but the other is Rhaegar’s best friend, Arthur Dayne. Jon is surely jealous of the relationship that Rhaegar and Arthur had. Acceptance and jealousy are not exclusive though. The way that he remembers the wedding “all too well”, implies that he still hasn’t really dealt with it. It is only after the wedding chat that we get this indication of Elia being unworthy, which he links to offering children and general health (Jon couldn’t offer children either). Jon is definitely jealous in some capacity of Elia, and it seems recalling the wedding is a bitter pill to swallow for him. Jon absolutely knows about Lyanna, he must do, as the Rhaegar vs Robert thing is reasonably well known. He is also likely to give us more information on Lyanna being crowned at Harrenhal. Identity remains a major theme of the story, as does power and where it resides. Aegon’s story really encapsulates these two themes. George has carefully constructed a story arc where one of the characters is in the same position as the reader in trying to determine whether Aegon is the real deal or not. Unfortunately for Arianne, she will have significantly less information than we do! I don’t want George to definitively tell us that Aegon is real/not real - but for us to make up our minds as readers. Ultimately we will have to see if we make the same decision as Arianne or not. We also haven’t seen anyone challenge Aegon on his identity yet. @Curled Finger refers to Aegon as a ‘manufactured character’, and I think that’s pretty perfect. His entire life view has been constructed by those around him, how will he cope when that view is challenged. I think we saw some insight when Tyrion schooled him at Cyvasse, but challenging his actual identity is considerably greater. I think that Illyrio’s reckoning will have to be with Daenerys rather than Aegon, particularly if the Tattered Prince remains involved in that story. Though I would expect more clues that Aegon COULD be his son. These are all great questions, I think that Arianne will ultimately declare for Aegon. I think that her arc for this novel will have to revolve around her making a decision that will decide the ‘fate of Dorne’. She is an incredibly complex character in her own right, growing significantly in ‘Feast’. The answers to these questions probably deserve a thread all to themselves!
  5. His pride is definitely one of his character flaws, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that he isn’t devoted. He is absolutely devoted to Rhaegar’s shade - his silver prince. The melancholy of his failure of Rhaegar permeates through both of his chapters, he wants to do well by the man he loved. I think that is entirely relatable and admirable. I don’t think we know enough, yet, to dismiss Jon as not particularly clever. He intends to take Storm’s End through guile and seems to be having a very successful campaign in the Stormlands. He also must show some talent to be promoted to Hand by Aerys and brought into the conspiracy by Varys. As for honour, he jumped into the waters around the Sorrows to save Tyrion Lannister. I hope that GRRM doesn’t reveal the truth of Aegon’s identity, because it is a central theme of the novel - it doesn’t matter whether it is true or not, it only matters in terms of the riddle. Arianne’s relationship with Aegon and Jon will be really interesting to follow in the next novel. I think we both agree that Dorne will declare for Aegon - but I’m expecting the ‘dragon’ ‘war’ raven thing to be a key plot point. To be fair - Arianne did say that she would be willing to share with a Sand Snake to Arys Oakheart... I think that Jon had some level of respect for Elia, but when he thinks about the bells tolling he doesn’t include Lyanna. Pure speculation- I think that Jon is likely to have accepted the Elia relationship because of social convention but he would be very unhappy with the Lyanna relationship. Was he jealous of Lyanna? The Harrenhal tourney will surely be fleshed out further. Perhaps we will see a mirror with Aegon - a marriage to Arianne but an ‘affair’ with Elia? Something like that.
  6. This is assuming that Aegon / Arianne is going to happen. It is definitely something that Arianne would want to happen, the foreshadowing in her sample chapters indicates that she would definitely be willing to be queen and sees this as more sensible than Quentyn as a king. The other thing that happens in both of her sample chapters is that she is undermined by Elia Sand. Elia doesn’t follow any of Arianne’s direct orders and will surely remind JonCon of Lyanna - if he ever met her. George has set up the character to remind us, the reader, of Lyanna. I wonder whether Aegon will marry Elia rather than Arianne - and consult neither Jon nor Varys. Jon wants Aegon unmarried to match with Daenerys - but Aegon’s actual chat in ‘The Lost Lord’ indicates that he wants to do it on his own. I don’t think Arianne / Aegon is set in stone. Interesting. I think that Jon believes that Aegon is Rhaegar’s son 100% - even if it is self-deception. I don’t think the moment in ‘The Griffin Reborn’, would have been possible if he didn’t believe it. He actively compares a moment on the roof with Rhaegar to a moment with his son. I also don’t think that Jon ‘has it in him’ to be Tywin - he wants to be capable of that level of ruthlessness but he isn’t, maybe the greyscale will be a catalyst for that but as a character he is really romantic looking to avenge his silver prince by putting his son on the throne. Jon’s story is incredibly tragic, even in the grand scale of ASOIAF tragedy.
  7. Is it not also plausible that Connington blames Varys for his exile in the first place. It is clear that he reflects a lot on his performance at the Battle of the Bells and wants to atone for that mistake, but I wonder whether he sees Varys as this figure who poisoned the king against him? I also wonder - pure speculation - whether he blames Varys for his exile which means he couldn’t be there for Rhaegar at the Trident? I was wondering about Jon’s relationship with Myles Toyne. Does anyone think that Jon developed feelings for Myles during his time in the Golden Company? Also... can we take a wee second to appreciate the absolutely beautiful piece of prose from ‘The Griffin Reborn’? The character work in AFFC and ADWD is exceptional.
  8. I think that Daenerys has to learn something from each of the slave cities that she conquered in ASOS. Front loading my bias, I’m not a Daenerys fan though I do really enjoy her chapters. Her final chapter in ‘Dance’ is testament to George’s writing and the entire book is worth it for the quality of prose in some of those chapters. What she has shown is that she can’t cope with resistance - she tries really hard, throughout the novel, looking for compromise and trying to rule justly, but she doesn’t have what it takes when she has forced a massive cultural shift on her people. Ultimately, she has disrupted the economic power of the region without presenting an alternative for how the cities could be sustained. The Green Grace tells her this with the discussion of the olive trees. I don’t think her struggles will be a moot point though, many have argued on this post that she will focus on the other slaver cities, that she isn’t done yet. Dany needs to present some reasonable alternative to ensure that the cities she is claiming (or razing?!) can sustain themselves. She doesn’t have the capacity to see beyond her idealism (and FWIW it is absolute the right thing) because she doesn’t understand the economics of rule. I don’t see it as likely that Victarion will claim a dragon, but the dragon horn itself will have some significant role in the plot going forward. I would like to see Vic survive the battle, but I guess that deserves its own thread. Could Tyrion and Moqorro team up to ‘tame’ Viserion? It seems highly likely that this disease is water-bourne, we are given information about the sewers of Meereen too. It’s just a suggestion as to how Tyrion could ingratiate himself with the rulers of the city. He is bankrolling the Second Sons, this MAY give him some level of influence. But probably not. Again, a lot of this can be explained by Skahaz having control of the beasts. It is likely that Hizdahr is still using the Beasts as guards and they may have overheard. The way that I read that scene in ‘The Kingbreaker’ is that Hizdahr is genuinely surprised by Barristan’s actions. He has been shown to ‘freeze’ in a crisis - the Groleo situation. I think he believes that Quentyn did do the poisoning. Whether that means that Skahaz was responsible remains to be seen, but I don’t think that Hizdahr knew. You quoted the section where Hizdahr misspoke earlier regarding the ‘bedslave’, I think it is reasonable to believe that Hizdahr believes Quentyn responsible and thus isn’t lying at that point. I meant that using the critics responses about George’s writing as evidence that the food clue is correct is confirmation bias - which it absolutely is. Again, I’m on mobile and will respond to the other comments ASAP
  9. While Mongol tribes may have been the basis for the Dothraki, I think that you are denying what is actually written in ‘A Game of Thrones’. Dothraki culture appears to have two sides, the sun and the stars / moon. The role of the male is traditional leadership, each khalasar is ruled by a khal who has bloodriders. The female represents their gods and sacred places as well as motherhood generally (Mother of mountains, womb of the world, Dosh Khaleen). Drogo’s khalasar disintegrated following his death. Daenerys crossing from khaleesi to khal is a massive cultural change - even the show didn’t make it easy for her! Agreed 100%. Daenerys achieving the Dothraki easily is not a story I want to read, it’s complex. If we have learned anything from the last two books it is that Dothraki culture is likely to become even more complex in ‘Winds’. Absolutely, not to mention that this system is likely rigged. Being elected as a Prince could just be an opportunity to remove heirs / weaken noble houses, while being framed as a great honour. my impression is that Tatters just didn’t want to conform to this and left. But the magisters have absolutely used this to gain power and favour in Pentos.
  10. Barristan reflects on the battle in his first TWOW sample chapter: To be honest, I had initially thought the battle was less bloody than that too. But, it is clear from Barristan’s thoughts that the battle was significant and the fighting particularly extreme around the square. I think the military power of the Great Masters is broken and their leadership were likely those chosen to be crucified by Daenerys. As is pointed out above, Shavepate warns that the widows in the Pyramids are Dany’s main enemy in Meereen.
  11. Going further to discuss the subject brought up by @Lord Varys regarding the role of Tyrion in Barristan’s upcoming arc reminded me of this quote from Tyrion II, ADWD: We also know from one of Moqorro’s visions that he has seen Tyrion snarling and surrounded by dragons. To me, this whole dream is reflective of the conflict that Tyrion faces in his current and future plot. Choosing between two dragons. Does Barristan represent Daenerys while Bittersteel represents the Golden Company? Or is it, as many believe an indicator of the so-called Barristan ‘Turncloak’ theory?
  12. That really is a tiny hint though, and if your right I’m happy to stand corrected. To be honest, in the UK, where I am, we would only use peppers to refer to bell peppers and chillis to refer to chilli peppers. The fact that the locusts are regarded as a delicacy could also be seen as a clue, perhaps they were aiming to take out a Ghiscari figure. Time and again we see Daenerys remarking negatively about Meereenese food and drink. Why not poison something like the figs, which she is seen eating often in the book. The fact that the Shavepate wanders freely amongst the Beasts even after his dismissal by Hizdahr is established again and again throughout the later chapters of the novel. The idea is equally valid, seeing as the Shavepate also manipulates Barristan into joining the coup. This is confirmation bias. I agree that the food is relevant, but beyond that you are conflating ideas. Hizdahr’s taste + food clues because George wants to get back at critics =/= Hizdahr did it. When I first read the books, and the second and third times, I was convinced that Galazza was the Harpy. In my most recent re-reads, I have moved away from the idea. I think that Galazza wants peace and would be happy to accept the terms that Hizdahr accepted. The people of Meereen and presumably Yunkai too hate the dragons, as the Green Grace explained. I think this explains the way they respond after Daznak’s Pit. I absolutely agree with this. I think his main motivation is money though and I think he would sell offices and positions in government. He believes, kind of like Cersei and Tyrion, that he can buy loyalty - as we see with employing the Pit Fighters as guards. Do you think that Daenerys cared about ruling Meereen by the end? I kind of feel like she was worn down by ruling and took the opportunity to ‘escape’. What do you think that will mean for her as a ruler going forward? She tried and failed and so now it’s fire and blood? Well... it did go wrong whoever did the poisoning! If Dany or Hizdahr was the target. Not that this is a defence of the plan - but we have seen this before in the story, depending on whether Margaery was involved in the plot at the Purple Wedding. Skahaz is definitely a social climber - that is why he shaved his head. As a minor house, he has pegged his banner to the new order to rise in status - which Hizdahr tries to take away when he becomes King and Daenerys allows. I think that Barristan would likely arrest Skahaz if he took out Hizdahr or the children, Barristan’s fondness for them is remarked upon again and again - including in ‘The Kingbreaker’. Though it may be that like Tyrion, Barristan is wounded in the battle and not there for the immediate aftermath? This is one of the plots I’m really interested in... how does Tyrion regain his status? I think it is likely that Tyrion and Barristan will have a very strained relationship. Barristan is unlikely to accept the help of a kinslayer readily, I wonder if Tyrion’s plot will be about uncovering the poisoner/the Harpy etc? I really don’t know what to expect from Vic... I think that Moqorro has a role to play with the Volantene fleet and the Tiger soldiers, so it would make sense if Vic was our viewpoint for that. Do you think that Tyrion is going to claim Viserion? I think you are overestimating Dany’s influence here. She has just proved in Meereen that even if she wants to change a culture that she doesn’t have the power to do it. Culture change takes a very long time. This is an interesting idea, though I think Tyrion, as a sewer expert, could be instrumental in reducing the spread/rate of infection. I totally get the point you are making here, I disagree with the example but that is more to do with the evolution in quality of prose as you move through the books. Theon’s Winterfell arc in Dance is when Winterfell feels most alive to me. We got a taste of how multiple viewpoints in Meereen felt after Dany left, so I’m excited for that. It’s a shame that we didn’t see Dany from someone else’s (Barristan’s viewpoint) before she left - but I’m assuming he is waiting for Tyrion for that!
  13. Well it couldn’t be as long as 17 years (more or less as soon as he was in exile) but must be more than 4 - that was the last time he saw Myles. Erm... Viserys wasn’t worthless. He would be Aegon’s heir until Aegon married. Viserys ultimately was desperate to cling on to his birth right and the army he thought he had bought, that was why he went with the Dothraki. His paranoia ultimately cost him his life. This really can’t have been the plan, it makes no sense at all. And surely this is going to be one of, if not the central dilemma facing Daenerys in the next book. Is she going to be happy to accept that the Dothraki culture of enslaving (or catching people with the intent of giving them to slavers) people is necessary to achieving her ideals? Or is she going to try to change the Dothraki culture and way of life as she has done in Meereen? For me, the general feeling that people have appears to be that she is going to get this awesome army and burn cities - but - it just isn’t that simple. To win the Dothraki she will have to destroy a culture (like she has done in Slavers Bay), or accept the culture and reconcile her own feelings towards slavery, to burn cities to the ground she will have to reflect on Astapor and Yunkai. Perhaps Quaithe’s prophecy is not about geography but about her own morals and values? Perhaps he thought Dany needed a knight to protect her from danger? I don’t think that Barristan would be able to identify Aegon as a fraud if Connington couldn’t. There must be at least some resemblance between Rhaegar and Aegon for JonCon to have his flashback at Griffins Roost (though remembering that JC is biased). I think you are overestimating the strength of the nobles here. There armies were slaves freed by Dany after the battle of Meereen, their children are hostages, and Skahaz has control of the Beasts and some Unsullied inside the walls. His stated goal is that he wants Hizdahr dead and wants Dany to kill the hostages. I think there is a high chance of Skahaz using the battle as a distraction for removing Hizdahr (at least) from the game. Barristan is going to have a difficult time clearing it up in the aftermath of the battle - and that is if the dragons don’t go mad at the sound of the horn!
  14. This is true, though I think it is also highly likely that they interacted during the events directly before AGOT begins. I think that it is likely that Barristan will arrest Tyrion, he is thought to have killed Joffrey and known to have killed Tywin - though I can’t recall whether this news has made it to Meereen or not. Barristan has Hizdahr arrested rather than having him executed and I think it likely he would behave the same way for another of his queen’s enemies. Brown Ben Plumm and Jorah are also both likely to have some sort of reckoning with Barristan - would he execute Jorah? He will be clearer on her feelings on Jorah from ASOS. I don’t really like the Tyrion as a secret Targ theory, not because it’s unfounded but personal preference. I do think that Barristan will have to have some kind of reckoning with his history regarding Aerys (particularly). I’m definitely not familiar enough with the canon surrounding the war of the nine penny kings. Who do you think Tatters could be? Barristan does go along with the idea of offering Tatters Pentos for his support. One wonders whether Barristan actually intends to keep his word on this? Especially seeing as he has come to Dany through Illyrio and the conspiracy. I really can’t see this being as simple as burning down the cities though. Dany has seen the destruction caused in Astapor as a result of her actions, and the danger of not leaving competent leadership in Yunkai and Meereen. Will she simply destroy cities? If she did go full on dragon, I don’t think there would be any other word to describe her than: villain. One of Barristan’s key traits is his self doubt, I wonder how he would feel if he knew that Dany was destroying cities and the innocents that lived there? Could there be some more parallels drawn to Jaime here? I’d love to get some more information on the defiance from Barristan’s viewpoint, and I’m sure that he will be the viewpoint that gives us more information about the battle at the trident. He could be very useful for establishing Rhaegar’s state of mind towards the end. Barristan’s role in Illyrio’s plot is one of the big questions for me. Perhaps Barristan was sent to make sure that she gets back safely - seeing as Viserys didn’t survive the Dothraki sea? The timeline of all of the events seems a little off though - Connington appears to have been brought into the fold at a later date, along with Haldon - unless they were always meant to bring the GC on board? So does that mean Lady Lemore has been involved in the plot for longer that JC?
  15. Hizdahr is much more liberal than the ‘Old Masters’, and his power as Barristan points out stems from Daenerys. The section that you have quoted about Hizdahr’s favourite dishes is ambiguous at best. Those stuffed peppers could as easily be bell peppers - not spicy - as chilli peppers which are spicy. Looking at the other foods on that list, I can’t speak for dog, but the rest indicate an indulgent and sweet palate. I don’t think that the Hizdahr that we see on page, through his interactions either with Dany or with Barristan / the court scene, would be capable of orchestrating a plot to poison Dany. He is a shrewd businessman, not a cold blooded killer. I don’t think that she liked Hizdahr either. There was definitely compromise there though, Hizdahr put aside some of the important traditions of Ghiscari weddings. While the fighting pits are open, the fighters are free men. We do see his frustration about certain things - particularly in Dany IX when he does have some power. Such as his response to Dany cancelling the follies - but he does go along with it. I don’t think that Skahaz was trying to poison Dany though, I think he was trying to poison Hizdahr. You are right, he gained a lot of power through Dany but he lost it when Hizdahr gained power. Importantly, Skahaz’s dismissal happens some time before Dany IX, as she reflects on Hizdahr replacing Skahaz. In that chapter Barristan and Dany discuss not knowing who is beneath the masks of the Brazen Beasts. I think it is entirely plausible that Skahaz was there. I do swing back and forth on the whole locking Barristan out of Meereen thing. I do expect Skahaz to make a move during the battle to remove some of the nobles or kill the hostages and weaken the greater houses. He may even have Hizdahr killed. I’m definitely not trying to argue that Hizdahr is a good guy - not at all - but he is being given a lot of credit for something that he, in my opinion, isn’t capable of. The Green Grace was the brains behind the political operation, Hizdahr is a shrewd businessman, Skahaz is a loose cannon definitely capable of orchestrating a poisoning. I think that the Green Grace is motivated by restoring peace, while Skahaz is looking to extend his personal power. When his power was threatened he struck out. I guess Theon being dropped from ASOS is the only example, I assume this was planned but I wasn’t part of the fandom back then. Restructure of ADWD led to Arianne and Aeron being dropped from that book, but as non-major viewpoints at that point they probably don’t count! I do think that Brienne won’t get any chapters for a good chunk of the book. The blanks will be filled in at a later date? I completely agree with you on this, we have discussed the need for a second viewpoint in KL at the start of Winds due to the limitations of Cersei’s viewpoint. Tyrion, Barristan, and Victarion will in all likelihood be telling us the story of Meereen in the aftermath of the battle. However, the characters would need to have their own separate stories as well as the main drama - this would follow Martin’s style of using multiple viewpoints in one location (Sansa/Tyrion being the best example). All this being said, the richness that is derived from having overlapping viewpoints is something I’m super excited about! I’m sure that highlights of the series for many occur when viewpoints overlap - the Red Wedding, Cat and Tyrion in the Eyrie, The Purple Wedding and aftermath... I’ll address the other points raised shortly... writing on a mobile isn’t the easiest!
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