Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

1 Follower

About Ckram

  • Rank
    Hedge Knight

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. It is precisely because of GRRM set this much of background that I suspect that she will play a role far from the obvious (that is, to be part of Arya's training). I dislike analyzing plots through tropes, but in that case it would be very frustrating if Black Pearl became a sort of Renowned Selective Mentor of Arya. I have no doubt that Black Pearl has a role to play in the books, but I think it would be more consistent with FM training that Arya learn a new set of skills from someone less important in Braavos (given that Kindly Man only gives Arya faces of ordinary people... so far). By the way, happy birthday!
  2. Another misconception of mine. In Braavos, a highborn girl might well become a courtesan. I'm not so sure about this one. This sound more like Pentos than Braavos. I'm not saying that the overwhelming majority was not of nobles, but that when Yandel says "chosen by the city's magisters and keyholders from amongst the citizenry" I understand he meant that maybe one or more Sealords weren't. I'm aware that throughout real-world history the concept of citizenship was often used to refer to a select group of (noble) people. But I have a strong feeling that this is not Braavos' case. Perfect. I can not argue against indications that Arya will interact in any way with the courtesans of Braavos. They continue to be mentioned in the books, especially the Black Pearl, which even must have blood ties with Westeros and Targaryen. The first proposal of the Kindly Man was precisely to send Arya to be a courtesan and talks how he could easily get her a position next to the Black Pearl or the Daughter of the Dusk, denoting that this two possibly maintain relations deeper than we think with the House of Black and White and the FM. However, after so much talking about the Black Pearl, I feel that the contact between her and Arya will not be this close and direct. In my opinion, It looks too Chekhovy to be Martin's goal.
  3. @The Weirwoods Eyes Sorry. You're absloutely right. I can't. I got so distracted with Arya saying "every courtesan had her own barge" (AFFC, Cat of the Canals) that I never considered the possibility that the barges are only their vehicles, not their homes. In spite of Arya also noting that there are huge barges in Braavos, and even floating houses (AFFC, Arya I), there's nothing suggesting courtesans effectivelly dwell in such vessels. Yes, their status is very high. As seen above, Yandel says that courtesans are as celebrated as sealords, lawgivers and sailors in Braavos. And if you take in consideration the generations of Black Pearls that originated from Bellegere Otherys, they might well be a traditional noble family by now. In fact: Taking a new look at the map, I felt a imediate urge to proclaim that Building #8 was the one that would fit better to a courtesan -- it has a vast shore to harbor patron vessels and is more distant and private, ideal for exclusive events (as the ones allegedly held in Cora Pearl's Chateau de Beauséjour). However, we are looking for a place fit with an influential family that holds a courtesan tradition, not a single courtsan. In that case, my eyes moved to Bulding #6 which also looks private (with a small canal just for itself) and have a light black dome (which look like a black pearl -- If you find hard to agree, please compare it to the white dome of Moonsinger's temple and the copper green dome of "the Dome" and maybe you will). I've called this building unfit for a (major and wealthy) noble family and speculated that it belonged to some middle class keyholder family, but it suits with a ~150 years old thriving courtesan family.
  4. I was re-reading TWOAIF and found this: Braavos is a city renowned for its architecture: the sprawling Sealord's Palace, with its magnificent menagerie of queer beasts and birds from all around the world; the imposing Palace of Justice; the huge Temple of the Moonsingers; the aqueduct that the Braavosi named the sweetwater river, carrying muchneeded freshwater from the mainland of Essos (for the water in the canals is brackish, muddy, and too foul to drink because of the refuse thrown into it by the city's inhabitants); the towers of the keyholders and noble families; and the House of Red Hands, a great hospice and center of healing. In and amongst these noble structures are countless shops, brothels, inns, alehouses, guildhalls, and merchants' exchanges. Along the streets and bridges stand statues of past Sealords, lawgivers, sailors, warriors, even poets, singers, and courtesans. (TWOIAF, The Free Cities: Braavos) First of all, now I have textual evidence to my suspicion that the buildings with towers we see ont the map are probably residences of wealthy noble families. Only one or two those must be keyholders since Yandel also told us that "certain of the founding families of Braavos have declined over the centuries, and a few have lost their wealth entirely, yet even the meanest still cling to their keys and the honors that go with them". This made me think that buildings #6 and #10 must be residences of middle class keyholder families whereas the poor keyholder families may "dwell in the towers and upper floors " of the Drowned Town ("the oldest part of the city", where "there are still some Braavosi, of the poorest sort"). Considering that "knives" usually "come out" during the selection of the new Sealord, maybe Arya or another FM will be payed to visit some of the candidates' homes in the near future (ominous image). On the other hand, another big building, the Palace of Justice, is mentioned on text but not shown on the map, meaning it must be one of the unnamed. When Yandel calls it "imposing", while House of Red Hands is called "great", it looks like he's saying the Palace is Building #2 while the House is Building #7. However, I feel I must be a little stubborn and insist that Building #7's architecture ressembles the one of Sealord's Palace so that it must be the Palace of Justice. Since Braavos went on a war to ban slave trade as south as Pentos, I imagine that the First Law of Braavos must have some horrible punishment, maybe even capital, and long I've been imagining what will happen to Goodheart's crew, especially to it's captain. Therefore, it's possible we see a trial take place at Palace of Justice any time soon. Buldings #1 and #8 are still a mistery. However, as we haven't seen any guildhalls or merchant's exchanges, they would fit the "locations that haven’t appeared in the books yet" category, and maybe that's what these buildings are.
  5. Ckram

    Greywater Watch

    According to the app, it was not magic, it was a scam.
  6. I have re-uploaded the map, numbering the unnamed buildings from 1 to 10: Click here. In a second analysis, I noticed that the 7 northermost of the unnamed buildings must have a deeper connection with Braavos's economy and history, since they are located in the wealthiest district of the city (the one above Canal of Heroes and Green Canal, which I'll call "north district" from now on). Indeed, there lies one of the biggest banks of the Known World (Iron Bank); the richiest harbor, which serves only ships of local merchants and Iron Bank (Purple Harbor), the best alehouses, inns, and brothels of the city (nearby Moon Pool), the seat of the city ruler (Sealord's Palace), and also: Another thing that denotes wealth in Braavos is to pipe the waters of the sweetwater river to your own home, and almost all the unnamed buildings in the north district are located near the aqueduct, which would facilitate the piping. On the other hand, taking into account the similarity between the layout of the Prestayn and Antaryon buildings (ie buildings with one or more towers), for now I believe it is safe to assume that the other braavosi noble houses should have similar features. And, guess what, three out of four of the unnamed buildings with towers are found in the north District. So my first guess is that buildings 3, 4, 5 and 9 belong to noble families of Braavos, which comes in handy with what we know, given that My second guess is that, due to their proximity with the Iron Bank site, buildings 3, 4 and 5 would belong to historical keyholders (which does not rule out that family on 9 might also be a keyholder, you see), and we know that Regarding buildings 6 and 10, although having one tower, they seem small in comparison to the above mentioned, which is why I discard for the moment that they are noble residences. Building 7 has some resemblance to the front building of Sealord's Palace, so my best guess is that it is some governmental building. Building 2 looks very massive for a residence and also does not resemble the front building of Sealord's Palace. It is probably the largest single building in Braavos, which qualifies it to be the House of Red Hands (the one building that makes Braavos "renowned for its architecture"). I don't know about buildings 1 and 8. Maybe one of them have a red door.
  7. Don't forget about Arthur's older brother.
  8. @Seams It took me a while to decide if this thread should be posted here or in the twow forum. It occurs that the subject has no direct and exclusive connection with the book to come, but with general speculation about the role of Braavos, since it is not a map on the back cover of a book, but one in a reference book for all the them. On the other hand, a piece of that same map appears in TWOIAF, pointing again to the fact that it is not solely related to the present and future of the series. Finally, I can't see why people would not be able to refer to TWOW content here by simply using the spoiler text box. But that's just my opinion, of course.
  9. @theMADdestScientist_ Fair point on the Baratheons. If I'd have to came up with a justification on why Robert weren't at court I'd that's he was ~3 years younger than Rhaegar (so might even wasn't born yet when Aerys called for relatives) and was heir of Storm's End (while Arthur was a second son -- in other words, more likely to be sent away). These arguments are not very compelling, I know. But still it's pausible scenario, the way I see it.
  10. Welcome to the forum. My favorite theory is that Arthur would have been brought to court after the Summerhall tragedy reduced the number of family members at court, and that Arthur would be considered a relative because the mother of the newly deceased king (Aegon V) was Dyanna Dayne.
  11. When talking about the map of Braavos for TLOIAF, illustrator Jonathan Roberts stated the following on his website: "yes, look at this one carefully – there are locations on here that haven’t appeared in the books … yet" In an interview for Quartz, however, Roberts was more specific in saying that he was sent unpublished TWOW material with instructions: "I was sent a set of chapters from The Winds of Winter [the forthcoming sixth book in the series] in 2012, with geographic details about the city of Braavos which were specifically required to be in the maps to support the plot of the upcoming novel. I do not know what those plot points are, just that they are important." Since maybe Roberts is not a qualified ASOIAF reader (ie compulsive re-reader / conspiracy theorist), I imagined that he might be refering to something already raised here or on other forum and still have no idea about the role in the plot of what he had draw. I did my best to identify some of those "geographic details", but I came to the conclusion that I am not such a qualified reader, either. All I could come up with were ten unnamed buildings that stood out from the general landscape (due to the similarity of their features and those of the buildings with names). I reread all the chapters that take place in Braavos, but I could not find a reference to them aswell. However, since we know of the imminence of an election of braavos and that every year they celebrate the unmasking, it may be that these details have been added to give cartographic support to these events. There is also the possibility that the details are strictly geographical, designed to substantiate the continuity of trade in Braavos even in the midst of the icy winter. I don't really know. What do you think?
  12. Ckram

    Small Questions v. 10105

    Answering myself: maybe that's the location of Tumbler's Fall.
  13. Ckram

    Why would the alchemists be as suicidal as Aerys?

    I also wouldn't call that sort of behavior a suicidal tendency. The Alchemists' Guild emerged in the reign of the Targaryen and their future was uncertain if the rebels won. As Hand of the King, Rossard certainly knew that he would be killed if Rebels took the capital, so he should be filling the head of the other alchemists with ideas about a mass execution of guild members if Aerys were dethroned. So, i guess this made them willing to do as much damage as possible to the invaders and put everything down. As for Aerys' alleged suicidal tendency, I think all he did want was not to be tried or tortured. Similarly, during the Battle of the Blackwater Cersei had made arrangements for her and other noblewomen to be executed by Illyn Payne so that they would not be made hostage or raped, and I don't think that makes her suicidal either.
  14. Ckram

    "The Others Take You"

    It's the westerosi version of "abi in malam rem". Regarding the literal meaning, it was when I read the wild hunt myths I realized that there was something in a host of ghostly huntsmen passing by and abducting people along the way in order to take them to the underworld that reminded me of Others. However, I can't recall any curse related to the wild hunt in the real world.
  15. Ckram

    Small Questions v. 10105

    Was there really a castle south of Stoney Sept as shown on James Sinclair's map of the Iron Islands in early AFFC american edition? (represented by a diamond) It is not on the same map remade by Jeffrey L. Ward.