Frey family reunion

I think he did take steps to bringing dragons back and those steps led to Robert’s Rebellion. Let’s start with what it means to be the prince that was promised and one of the three “heads” of the dragon. It’s a thousand year old prophecy that had never been fulfilled even though dragon riders were aplenty through most of the prophecy. It could have just been a timing element, that the Long Night hadn’t started yet, or it could have also mean that being the prince that was promised and one of the three heads of the dragon meant more than just being a dragon rider at the right time. What’s the next evolution for Targaryens after they have learned to tame and ride dragons? I think in looking at the other magic in this world, especially that magic dealing with consciousness transfer, that the next evolution for a Targaryen is transferring their consciousness into a dragon. To put it in Varamyr’s words, having a second life truly worthy of a king, or a god. So literally, the riddle of the sphinx that Aemon spoke about is this. A Valyrian sphinx is a dragon with the head of a human. So how does one transfer a consciousness from a human into a dragon? It might have to do with a blood sacrifice of those who have a magical “kingsblood”. Aemon after all doesn’t scoff at Melisandre’s belief that a sacrifice of a child with king’s blood will wake dragons from stone. Instead he agrees that there is power in King’s blood, and better men than Stannis have done worse. Who are those better men? I think that they are Aegon V and Rhaegar Targaryen. Aegon V tried to have fiery human sacrifices at Summerhall which led to the tragedy there. Rhaegar, someone who was obsessed with Summerhall, tried something similar which ended up sparking Robert’s Rebellion. So the first part is Rhaegar coming to terms that he’s not the prince that was promised, but instead it’s his son, Aegon. Rhaegar becomes convinced of this when a comet passed over King’s Landing, the night his child was conceived. However, the dragon has three heads. In other words, three consciousnesses may be needed to be transferred into a dragon. And of course we also need a dragon to hatch. So the Harrenhal tourney is created. The purpose of which was to bring together young lords who have been descended from ancient magical kings. Rose Lords who claim they were descended from the Gardner Kings on the maternal line. And a Storm Lord who was descended from the Storm Kings on the maternal line. Also invited were the wolf lordlings, who are the bloodline of the Winter Kings. The aim was to get Rhaella’s lady in waiting, and the sister of Rhaegar’s best friend, Ashara, pregnant, so she could create a King’s blood sacrifice and perhaps have the child reborn into a dragon. And at the tourney, Rhaegar sees Lyanna Stark and becomes convinced that she also could give birth to a child that could help bring about the prophecy. So Ashara becomes pregnant and then she becomes involved with Eddard Stark. Which in turn gives her access to Lyanna Stark, and in turn this gives Rhaegar an inroad to Lyanna Stark, to help convince her of the part she and her future child will play in the war for the Dawn. It’s one of GRRM’s more common tropes in his writing, where a woman that the protagonist is smitten by becomes wrapped up in a cult. GRRM’s Dying of the Light and Song for Lya are two of his stories that deal with this very same topic. I think he turns to it again here. Making Lyanna fall into a cult, the purpose of which is to sacrifice her child for the greater good. Lyanna runs off with Rhaegar and his friends, and Robert’s rebellion begins. Eddard gets wind of what is being planned for Rhaegar’s child, Ashara’s child, and Lyanna’s child, and who knows who else. And he and his friends go to the tower of joy to stop it. Thus we have a battle to the death against a Kingsguard who were tasked with protecting the infants with King’s blood, until the transfer was ready to be completed.

He was Rhaegar’s go between in organizing the Harrenhal tourney, and he was one of the knights at Rhaegar’s tower of joy, so even if he wasn’t one of Rhaegar’s inner circle he certainly became an integral part of Rhaegar’s machination from the Harrenhal tourney on.

From what I can piece together, Rhaegar probably thought that the Prince that was Promised was going to lead the Night’s Watch in the Battle for the Dawn. Assuming that Aemon and Rhaegar were on the same page regarding the prophecies, we can discern Rhaegar’s intent based on Aemon’s musings. It’s notable that Aemon doesn’t think Melisandre is crazy, he just thinks she’s wrong about the identity of the Prince that was Promised. Stannis’ sword had no heat, and notably Stannis had no dragons. According to legend, the Night’s Watch is an integral part in the battle for the Dawn: So it at least seems that Aemon (and thus probably Rhaegar) believes that the Prince that was Promised was going to lead the Night’s Watch in Battle against the Others. So it’s notable that one of Rhaegar’s close allies concerning the Harrenhal tourney and the tower of joy was Oswell Whent. Because the Whents were considered friends of the Night’s Watch. From Yoren: Plus we have a Night’s Watch recruiter at Rhaegar’s tourney at Harrenhal: This is the same feast where Rhaegar sings his sad song, that made the Lyanna sniffle. We don’t know exactly what the song was about, but there is some evidence that Rhaegar’s favorite topic was Summerhall. And while this isn’t canon, it might be notable that in the latest ASOIAF calendar we have a picture of Rhaegar with Lyanna and Ashara at the ruins of Summerhall. Perhaps that’s where he brought Lyanna after finding her outside of Harrenhal. After all, why would Lyanna get herself involved with Rhaegar, unless she thought he was trying to help in something that the Starks would have been uniquely aware of, the Battle for the Dawn and the Night’s Watch.

As for why the Kingsguards were at the tower, we have to address the Gerold Hightower problem. Hightower is apparently the one who is sent by Aerys to retrieve Rhaegar in his time of need. Hightower apparently does not return to King’s Landing with Rhaegar Targaryen. However, it never appears that Gerold’s loyalty is questioned even by Aerys. When Rhaegar come to King’s Landing (without Gerold), we’re told that: So the only people Aerys still trusted at this time were his Kingsguards (other than Jaime whom he kept close). So Aerys apparently never believed that Gerold had deserted him or switched his allegiance to another. Jaime, who was constantly with Aerys during this time, also never believed that Gerold had deserted Aerys. And if the conversation between Eddard and the Kingsguard was accurate, it appears that Gerold also considered himself loyal to Aerys throughout. So when King’s Landing fell, Gerold, even though he wasn’t there to protect Aerys, still states that his loyalty to Aerys remained and if they were present, Aerys, not Rhaegar, or Rhaegar’s heir would sit on the Iron Throne. So if Gerold never violated his vow to King Aerys, then why was wasn’t he there to defend his King? And why doesn’t he believe that his absence violated his vow? Barristan mulls over his Kingsguard vows after Dany flies off in Mereen: Barristan was trying to decide if he had a duty to defend Dany’s husband from the Shavepate: So if Dany had commanded Barristan to protect her consort it would have been an easy decision for Barristan. Which takes me back to the Kingsguards. They certainly seem very certain that they are acting within their duty as a Kingsguard to protect that tower from Eddard and his friends. So the only conclusion is that Aerys ordered them to do so. So the question remains, if the tower was simply where Rhaegar was keeping Lyanna and her unborn child, why would Aerys have an interest in ordering his Kingsguards to protect it? That’s why I keep going back to the one common ground for Rhaegar and Aerys, the return of their dragons. The importance of King’s blood is not purely a political point in this story.

I think it could go either way. But interpreting it to mean that the dream consisted of three separate parts only connected by the dream itself is certainly valid. Where I would differ is that Eddard seems to confirm in his memory that the confrontation with the three knights occurred at the tower of joy in Dorne is from Ned’s memory of the events not the dream. So the three knights were outside a round tower with the red mountains of Dorne at their backs. It certainly seems that this battle took place in the Prince’s Pass. Where I would agree with you is that there is no confirmation in Ned’s memory that Lyanna lay inside the round tower. Ned’s dream could very well be conflating the two events without respect for time or location. In fact the dream even separates the two scenes with something that certainly did not occur in reality: So the dream dissolves from one scene to another with perhaps some bleed through. Eddard’s memory never confirms that Lyanna lay inside the round tower.

I don't think Ned's devious enough to fake outrage. If he gets angry about Ashara's name being mentioned, maybe it's because he harbors anger for Ashara Dane. After all, she may have been the one who got Lyanna involved with Rhaegar. She'd be the perfect go between, going from Rhaegar's camp into Eddard's.

Yes, and assuming that Eddard's conversation with the three Kingsguard's in the fever dream is accurate, then it's also clear that the three Kingsguards were still loyal to Aerys up until their end. It's also worth noting that according to the Worldbook, the Kingsguards were the last people that Aerys trusted (save for Jaime). Aerys never considered that they had abandoned or betrayed him, despite the fact that they were not at the Trident, or King's Landing, or Dragonstone. The takeaway is that they were "far away" with Aerys blessing, or even perhaps under Aerys' command. Aerys paranoia against his son Rhaegar even seemed to have subsided after the Harrenhal tourney. He allowed Rhaegar to ride off with at least two of his Kingsguard in tow. He knew how to summon Rhaegar when the need arose, after the Battle of Bells, and he handed over the royal army to Rhaegar. So if the Kingsguards were at the tower of joy with the blessing of Aerys, and if Rhaegar was the one who named the tower, then we have to assume that there was some common ground between Rhaegar and Aerys. The only thing that really fits the bill, is the attempt to bring back the dragons. We know Rhaegar was obsessed with the Prince that was Promised prophecy. And according to Aemon, the return of dragons was part of the prophecy. Rhaegar was also obsessed with Summerhall which also dealt with an obsession with bringing back dragons to the world. And we know that Aerys had his own desires to bring back dragons and in fact to be reborn as one. According to Barristan Selmy, Rhaegar was single-minded and very able. Which makes me think that all of Rhaegar's actions were primarily to prepare for the Prince that was Promised prophecy. Which would include in my opinion, the Harrenhal tourney and his interest in Lyanna. My guess is that the tourney at Harrenhal was in reality not an attempt to summon a Great Council to remove Aerys, nor was it a clumsy attempt to block a political alliance. I think that the purpose of the Harrenhal tourney was to bring together Young Lords that were in possession of King's Blood. And I think that Ashara becoming pregnant was not an accident, I think that was the whole purpose of the tourney. And at some point (perhaps after the KOLT incident) Rhaegar also became super focused on Lyanna, and worked on bringing her into his cult. I think Eddard found out that there was going to be a sacrifice of one or more children at the tower of joy, which included Lyanna's child, and that's why it was always going to be a battle to the death. The oath that the Kingsguard's had sworn was an oath to see the sacrifices through. ETA

I think you’re overstating that a bit. We really don’t have a description of Duncan the Small outside of artwork. And while Rhaenys and Baelor had the dark hair of the Baratheons and the Martells respectively we don’t know if they had “no” Targaryen features. Jon on the other hand has repeatedly been seen as completely looking like a Stark. Brown hair, grey eyes, and long face. So facial features in addition to hair and eye color. The better argument is Arya’s appearance. She’s said to look like Jon. So her Tully blood has been completely hidden by her Stark blood in her appearance. So either Jon’s looks simply mean that his Stark parent has completely hidden the blood of his other parent, or it means that Jon is a Stark on both sides. It’s not really evidence that Jon has a Targaryen or Dornish parent. It doesn’t discount it but it’s not evidence of it.

The Phantom Menace may have been the most disappointing movie I ever saw. Not the worst mind you, but the most disappointing.

Just remind me, why isn’t she descended from Elaena Targaryen? ETA: Nevermind, I see the issue, it’s the timing of when she would have been born vs when Elaena had her Penrose children.

Except Gerold was a late comer according to everything we know, and was still standing next to Jaime when Brandon and Rickard were killed. So it doesn't seem likely that he would have been with Rhaegar that early. Presumably they were in Summerhall before Robert arrived from the Vale, since the Summerhall battle was one of the first events that happened when Robert returned to the Stormlands. We know that Rhaegar rode off with six other companions when he left King's Landing before he came upon Lyanna in the Riverlands, so presumably he was with the six that were considered his closest confidants. And Oswell Whent. So Whent, Dayne, Connington, Lonmouth, Mooton, and perhaps Lewyn Martell (or maybe Oberyn). At some point Connington and Mooton return to King's Landing to help fight the war, and Lewyn joins the Dornish forces in the Boneway, so they might have left Rhaegar's side by this point in time. But we don't know what happend to Lonmouth, so that very well might be him along with Whent.

Highly unlikely that it’s Gerold Hightower. Neither individual seems old enough and wouldn’t Gerold have still been in King’s Landing at that point? Perhaps it’s Lonmouth.

Could also be a reference to “loam”. Loam is a type of top soil made fertile by mixing it with decaying plant life. An adjective would be “loamy” as in the soil is loamy, i.e. fertile. It would go with the “green hand” imagery. Nevermind I see you beat me to it.

Which is why Rhaegar’s music filled the room with sweet sadness. But that doesn’t mean that Rhaegar would want to “fight” the prophecy. Rhaegar’s belief would be similar to Stannis’ belief, that he’d do what needed to be done to save the realm. So if Rhaegar truly believed in the prophecy, then he believed that the Long Night was coming and he needed to ensure that his son fulfilled the prophecy to lead the fight. Barristan describes Rhaegar as: In other words someone that would not allow himself to be distracted from his goal. If his goal was to fulfill the Prince that was Promised prophecy, which in turn dealt with the Battle for the Dawn, than we should expect that all of Rhaegar’s actions were towards that goal. Including the tourney at Harrenhal and his “abduction” of Lyanna.

You seem to be missing the point of the prophecy though. Why would Rhaegar want to fight it? After all, the prince that was promised was supposed to lead the fight in the War for the Dawn. In other words, he was supposed to save Westeros from another Long Night. As for why he would name the tower of joy, if your scenario is correct: it might be a joy (even if a bittersweet one) for Rhaegar to bring the dragons back into the world. After all, despite the suffering that led up to it, Dany seems to be happy that her dragon eggs hatched. There is of course an additional possibility that Rhaegar and Aerys may not have been too different in mindsets over the return of dragons. Aerys believed that he would be reborn as a dragon. Rhaegar might actually have believed that his son would be reborn as a dragon as well. That the Prince that was Promised might actually be a Targaryen living their second life as a dragon.

We don’t know that Rhaegar believed that all three heads of the dragon had to come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella. The wood’s witch only stated that the prince that was promised would come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella. Rhaegar seems to believe based on our glimpse of his conversation with Elia that the prince that was promised (Aegon) was one of the three heads of the dragon. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Rhaegar thought that the other two had to come from him or even more broadly the line of Aerys and Rhaella.

I liked your essay on Lyanna and Persephone. I think there might be one additional image that GRRM has given us, linking the two. While Persephone is most known for her abduction myth, she also appears in another famous myth, that of the bard Orpheus and his wife Eurydice. In that tale, Orpheus’ wife is killed by a viper. Orpheus journeys into the underworld and gains an audience in front of Hades and Persephone. Orpheus plays his lyre and sings a sad song, pleading his case to the gods to let him take his wife back to the land of the living. The song brings both Hades and Persephone to tears, and Hades allows Orpheus to bring Eurydice back to the land of the living, under one condition: that if Orpheus looks back to make sure his wife is following him, she’ll be lost to him forever. (Which of course is what Orpheus does). In our tale, Rhaegar makes a pretty good stand in for the bard, Orpheus. Rhaegar even sings a sad song to our Persephone, Lyanna, which causes her to cry. The question is what does Rhaegar sing to Lyanna? We have a hint from Barristan, what his song might be about. So Rhaegar would often sing of the events surrounding Summerhall, which in turn is known to be associated with dragons. So perhaps Rhaegar’s song had to do with bringing back the Targaryen’s “spouse” back from the dead. Their dragons. The one character that takes up Rhaegar’s mantle is Dany. She’s often compared favorably to Rhaegar, and in one dream, she even lifts up Rhaegar’s visor to see her own face underneath. And what does Dany keep thinking during the chain of events that leads her to successfully bring back the dragons from the dead? So this is a long winded way of saying that I think the Harrenhal tourney may not have been called for the purpose of calling a Great Council to oust Aerys (as Aerys’ lickspittles warned). I think instead the Harrenhal tourney was called specifically to help fulfill a prophecy concerning Rhaegar’s son, the Prince that was Promised. Rhaegar was looking to bring back the dragons from the dead for his son. And in order to do it, Rhaegar needed Kingsblood. My guess is that Ashara becoming pregnant at the tourney wasn’t an accident.

I agree. I think it would be difficult to center the show around the Penguin as a protagonist after the way this season ended. But he would be a great antagonist in someone else’s series. It would also allow Colin to reprieve the role with much less screen time, thus less time in the costume.

The most logical explanation for that passage is that the Blue Rose causing a chink in the Wall directly relates to the story of Bael the Bard that Ygritte told Jon. It’s a story that tries to relate to Jon that the Wildlings and the Starks share bloodlines. It is perhaps what’s in the back of Jon’s mind when he decides to let the Wildlings come through the Wall. The story (the blue rose) causes a chink in the Wall that separates the Wildlings from the Kneelers. (As an aside all of the visions seemed tied in to other literary allusions. The chink in the Wall is probably a direct reference to the tale of Pyramus and Thisbe, where a chink in the Wall between the houses of two people who were separated by their family’s rivalry allowed them to communicate and fall in love. The “chink in the wall” is also a part played in the play within a play in a Midsummer Night’s Dream.)

You really need to put that passage in perspective. It came from Eddard as he lay in the black cells where memory and dreams were intermingling. We don’t know if he just meant that’s when things went from good to bad. Because obviously he didn’t also reach out and cut his hands on the winter crown thorn. The World Book’s Maester’s account puts the tourney in a more dispassioned perspective. And it’s clear that Rhaegar’s action and Brandon’s reaction, was the cause of confusion. The lickspittles around Aerys who had the most reason to dislike Rhaegar, didn’t come to the conclusion that Rhaegar was trying to set aside Elia and steal Lyanna away from Robert by his action. They would have certainly seized on that as proof that Rhaegar was unworthy if that’s what they believed. Instead they came to the conclusion that Rhaegar was trying to woo the Starks to his side. Which was the most logical conclusion. Even Robert didn’t think that Rhaegar was trying to woo Lyanna. He was upset because he thought Rhaegar was trying to show him up. The confusion comes at Brandon’s reaction. If indeed all the smiles died it probably has as much to do with Brandon’s reaction as it did with Rhaegar’s action.

The belief that that the tourney was a means to call a Great Council to oust Aerys was what Aerys’ lickspittles used to poison Aerys against Rhaegar. Which makes sense since their influence was with Aerys not Rhaegar. Now since we have such a paranoid unscrupulous lot who hold this belief, perhaps George is subtly telling us that this belief might not be correct. That Rhaegar was not secretly hosting this tourney to get rid of Aerys, but instead had another goal in mind. And notably after this tourney, Aerys and Rhaegar suddenly seem to be on the same page, as Aerys apparently allows Rhaegar to ride off with at least two of his Kingsguards.

Actually Brandon and Rhaegar don’t have an obvious reason to clash. Rhaegar crowning Lyanna as the Queen of Love and Beauty, should not have been seen as an inappropriate romantic gesture. In fact the lickspittles around Aerys seized on that as proof that Rhaegar was trying to woo the Starks to his side by showing respect to their family by crowning Lyanna. And if you go to GRRM’s most probable inspiration behind the Harrenhal tourney, Ivanhoe, you’ll see that’s the case. When Ivanhoe’s mystery knight crowns the queen of love and beauty her family takes it as a great honor, despite the fact that she was betrothed to another. Now the person she was betrothed to wasn’t happy, but if you were going to parallel the two stories, then Robert should have been the one who was the most upset. The Starks shouldn’t have necessarily seen it as anything other than honoring their family through Lyanna’s award. Now perhaps it was the choice of flowers that set Brandon off.

Rhaegar joins the tourney only after TKOTLT makes his/her appearance. It’s as if Rhaegar had a sudden inspiration that he needed to be the one to crown the Queen of love and beauty. He also picks out a blue winter rose, which at least on the surface appears to have been specifically for Lyanna, as opposed to any other possible queen. Sansa notes that she is the only one that received a red rose from Loras as opposed to the white roses he was giving other maidens. Not exactly an on the nose comparison, but it’s something I suppose. A knight adorned in blue roses handing out roses to maidens makes us at least consider a parallel to Rhaegar if nothing else. I don’t’ know that we have evidence that Rhaegar cheated per se. But we have Barristan lamenting that if he was a better knight he would not have lost his joust to Rhaegar. So what does that mean exactly? Barristan tells the reader that winning a joust isn’t necessarily about skill, but a lot of it comes down to plain dumb luck. So why would losing a joust make Barristan question his knighthood? The possibility is that Barristan let Rhaegar win, because that’s what he was instructed to do. And that’s why Barristan may have thought he didn’t necessarily do the honorable thing.

He was never technically working for Robert he’s been working for Illyrio and Varys. He’s supplying them with his info, Varys occasionally sends the info to Robert when it benefits him. And yes, I don’t think that Jorah has confessed everything to Dany.

My guess is that Illyrio’s initial plan was to keep Dany around the eggs, perhaps hoping she would be pregnant around said eggs. I think Jorah was tasked at some point in getting the Eggs to Asshai, which is why Jorah kept trying to convince Dany to go to Asshai before the eggs hatched. It’s also why he was keeping an eye on the eggs, to keep anyone from taking them. Perhaps Illyrio had a plan to hatch the eggs in Asshai via blood magic. Illyrio did not think the eggs would hatch on the Dothraki plains. When the eggs hatch Jorah stops trying to get Dany to go to Asshai.