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Frey family reunion

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  1. Oh I don’t know. I definitely think that Euron is more evil than Baelish. Probably the most pure evil character in the books, more so than even Ramsay.
  2. Nah. That occurs during Ned’s fever dream, the same dream where he reached out and cut himself on the rose crown. So it’s not an accurate depiction of the reality of the moment, and it’s coming from someone who is not a dispassioned third party. For Ned, the moment indicates when things started to go wrong, the end of his innocence and the event that brought about the deaths of Lyanna and Brandon. If you look at a more dispassioned account, look to the Worldbook. It seems that the primary reaction to Rhaegar’s crowning of Lyanna was confusion. Why give the crown to Lyanna? But even Robert who is as hot headed and jealous as they come didn’t come right out and accuse Rhaegar of trying to steal his girl. Instead, he said it was Rhaegar just giving Lyanna her due. Even if deep down he probably believed Rhaegar used the moment to upstage him or make him look bad. The lickspittles came up with a reasonable conclusion, that Rhaegar was doing it to curry favor with the Stark family. Of course they also have their own selfish reasons. But what adds to the confusion is the Stark’s reaction. There is no particular reason for them to react so negatively to the gesture. At least no reason on the outside looking in. But it’s highly unlikely that it was widely seen as a romantic overture at the time, or else the backlash from the Dornes, the Starks, the Stormlands, the Arryns etc would have been much greater at the time. Instead, until Lyanna’s disappearance, everything pretty much goes back to normal afterwards. That’s why I suggest that Martin was probably influenced by the Ivanhoe tourney. The crowning at the Ivanhoe tourney did have a romantic overture, but it’s also apparent that the crowning could have a number of different reasons. The prince himself was encouraging the mystery knight to crown a lady from a family that he was hoping to win over to his side. And there is also a very strong likelihood that Rhaegar’s motivation may have been to secretly give Lyanna her due as opposed to a specific romantic gesture at the time. Especially if Lyanna was secretly the mystery knight, and Rhaegar uncovered her identity prior to the end of the tourney. But because that knowledge wouldn’t have been known, his gesture just ended up sowing confusion.
  3. Lyanna would have certainly been considered the property of her father at that time. Lyanna was betrothed to Robert without her leave, and everything seems to indicate that this was not an outlier with how marriages were arranged. Taking Lyanna and deflowering her without her father’s permission would have most certainly been a huge affront (outside of the wildling culture). So Rhaegar taking her would have certainly been considered an abduction in Westeros.
  4. My point is, even those in Westeros who consider Lyanna and Rhaegar a love story, would still probably acknowledge that Lyanna was kidnapped. It has more to do with stealing her from her family than it does with how Lyanna felt about the situation.
  5. I don’t think most in Westeros would consider taking an underage girl engaged to another without the permission of their family a legitimate elopement. It’s a kidnapping. Even today, if one were to lure an underage girl away from her family without permission, it’s a kidnapping.
  6. But that assumes that crowning Lyanna would be considered a romantic gesture. It’s more likely that the gesture would have been seen by a third party observer as a sign of respect for Lyanna and her family. In fact, that’s what the lickspittles told Aerys, that Rhaegar was trying to curry favor with the Stark family. So while Rober could be a bit miffed that Rhaegar was trying to show him up with his betrothed, it seems very odd that Brandon would be more upset than Robert.
  7. Well what Rhaegar would consider a joy, might not be what Lyanna would consider joyous. Rhaegar could have very well named it not because it was a place he found carnal joy in with Lyanna, but because he anticipated a birth that was going to happen there. (Or perhaps a hatching).
  8. I think it’s undisputed that it had to be a kidnapping, whether or not Lyanna was taken kicking or screaming, or met up with Rhaegar and rode off with him willingly. The issue was that he took an underage girl from her family without their leave, and with them being unaware of where she was brought.
  9. It’s a good point. And if you look at what was the Harrenhal tourney’s most probable inspiration it’s even more head scratching. The tourney in Ivanhoe is probably the closest parallel. And in the Ivanhoe tourney, when the mystery knight crowns Lady Rowena, her adopted family doesn’t take offense at all (despite the fact that she was already betrothed) but takes it as a sign of respect for their Saxon family. It’s only Rowena’s betrothed who takes offense. So while there is some precedent for Robert being miffed, it’s very odd that Brandon and Eddard seem more upset than him. Now of course, the choice of blue roses could be the issue if Brandon and Eddard were familiar with the tale of Bael the Bard.
  10. Stannis is upopular because he's widely known to hold a grudge like Khomeini, to quote Jerry Seinfeld. He's unpopular with the Reach lords because they know he's going to hold the Siege of Storm's End against them. Renly on the other hand reached out to them and put them at ease that he would give them preferential treatment as King. Then Stannis being away from Storm's End hurt his standing with the Stormlords. Which is why Renly had so much support from the Reach and the Stormlands, which is a pretty powerful alliance, one that Stannis could never hope to match.
  11. Nah. Jaheaerys, Alysanne, Maekar, Aegon V, Viserys II, none of these caused sucession crisis with the rest of Westeros. Renly's selling point would be the Lannister's unpopularity with much of the realm. Joffrey was just the puppet of his mother and grandfather, ect. ect.
  12. It would probably have to be through Arya Flint. I think there is a small chance that Sara Snow (if she did indeed exist) may have been married off to one of the Mountain clans by Cregan Stark (probably to one of Arra Norrey’s relatives) so Sara’s child could be born as legitimate. If so, Arya Flint could have descended from that child and thus possibly be descended from Jacaerys Velaryon.
  13. Wasn't Garth Tyrell "Garth the gross" once floated out as a possible canidate for Master of Coin? I think that's who it would be.
  14. Another possible variant of Pycelle is Pisel. Which apparently is a occupational name in South Germany for a "pea grower". From the High German word bise or pise for pea, and the Latin word for pea, pisum. In Italian perhaps you've heard of Piselli Pasta? Pasta with peas. The reason I bring this up is some of the other associations with peas from Lannister associated characters. Podrick Payne is the first that comes to mind. Then we have Gregor Clegane, who shares the first name with another "pea grower", Gregor Mendels. He of the Mendellian genetics, of which GRRM uses in his first major mystery of the series. Then we have this exchange with Tyrion and Sansa:
  15. Technically, it's not. In addition to the act occurring in Braavos, she doesn't have the legal authority to pass sentence on a deserter. She's not a recognized Lord of Winterfell or anywhere else. So what she did was essentially vigilante justice.
  16. I doubt that GRRM worships either Zeus or Bran the Blessed, but that hasn't stopped him from using their stories as inspirations. I just tend to think a fable about the idea of a collective of trees deciding on their king is a little bit on the nose. Especially the bit about the chosen threatening fire for those who don't bow down. As for blackberries, my guess is that they may hint towards "dragons", blackberries start out as sour reds, but they turn into sweet blacks later on. So if Young Griff is indeed descended from Blackfyres, then Lemore as "the blackberries" would be an interesting interpretation of her name. Especially as it might be recurring theme with Blackfyres and Blackberries and their bushes, as Eustace's sons were buried beneath the blackberry bushes when they were killed fighting for the Blackfyres. As far as being covered by a bramble, as in the parable of the trees, we have that distinct imagery in Brienne's journey, when she comes across the "Whispers" which has been covered in a blackberry bramble, only the blackberries have been picked clean.
  17. Interesting, and apparently if you read the wiki, the larvae of the buff-tip moth uses it for food. And when Tywin and Shae’s bodies are found:
  18. Tourneys aren’t wars. Your list is for the greatest warriors. Rhaegar won no battles, Baelor Breakspear distinguished himself in the Battle of the Redgrass Field, commanding the Dornish and Stormlands forces, while Maekar’s likewise distinguished himself leading the Vale’s forces.
  19. I wouldn't put Rhaegar in this list, certainly not over Maelys, who was supposed to be akin to Gregor, and Daemon who was a proven killer.
  20. Yea, heard it’s crazy. My guess is we’re going to see cameos galore from characters we didn’t think we’d get in this series.
  21. You can be a great actor and still be wrong for a role. And I think that’s the case here, she just hasn’t been able to capture Hera. I’ve seen enough of Rosario as Ashoka to know that she’s right for the role, and I’ve been impressed with what I’ve seen of Natasha Bordizzo as Sabine. Winstead is just playing the part too perky, wide eyed (the green contact lenses may be a part of that), meek, etc.
  22. So I'm assuming that Dr. Weird is GRRM's version of Dr. Strange. Interesting, because long ago someone made a post showing the parallels to Bran's journeys and some of Dr. Strange's comic adventures in the 60's and 70's.
  23. I think for Ahsoka it’s a directorial decision. As for Hera, I just think Winstead is wrong for the role.
  24. Sticking with the food symbolism, in Italian, Mora is blackberry, More is blackberries. So Le More is the blackberries. And it’s not the first time that GRRM has used blackberries when speaking of a secret conspiracy involving the descendant of a king. In the appendix we learn of the group of “King’s Men” that act as Edric Storm’s protectors: In addition in the Sword Sword, we learn that Ser Eustace’s sons were buried beneath a blackberry bush after being killed fighting for the Blackfyres. So what’s with would be kings and the blackberry and the blackberry bush? I have a gut feeling that it has to do with the “Parable of the Trees”. A bramble is a blackberry bush. In the parable, all of the other trees that they asked to rule over them refused them, but the bramble accepted, but warned that for the trees that refused its rule, it was going to consume them in fire.
  25. Ok, I understand your point now. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. You may very well be right, I just don't think that's where George is going with this, but I could very well be wrong.
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