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History of Westeros

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  • Birthday 11/25/1975

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  1. I imagine what we know regarding "can the undead procreate, eat, heal?" will be fleshed out with Jon's TWOW chapters. But again I must insist that we not lump all forms of the undead together. If we only looked at wights, we'd assume the undead can't speak and are controlled by a separate intelligence, but then we got Beric, who is apparently not controlled by anyone but himself, and can speak. Then Coldhands, who might be controlled and can also speak. Robert Strong doesn't eat or drink, but Beric drinks (and Beric is not doing it to fool people into thinking he's among the living, his horrific injuries make that mpossible. and by the way, we have no visible cause of death for Coldhands, which is slightly curious). Would Robert Strong be able to speak if Qyburn... well, did something differently? I agree that the straightforward details to not make the case that Maegor was undead. But the subtext is very strong (Strong? haha) in that regard. Two different "Maegor returned from the grave" quotes in F&B plus the overwhelming similarities between him and Gregor are almost certainly not an accident by GRRM, so I remain very open to the idea. It is similar to me to the "was Aegon I infertile?" question. Nothing explicitly points to it, but the circumstantial evidence and subtext make it entirely possible. And because GRRM is a great and careful writer, it's likely he intended for us to ponder these mysteries.
  2. Irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Mel is alive or dead, the point is she successfully conceals the fact that she doesn't need to eat or sleep. No it wouldn't, if he just did like Mel. Eat when others are eating. How is that difficult at all? If Mel can pull it off, why not someone else? edit: Oops, sorry for the double quote. Also worth pointing out re: dead people and eating/drinking: un-Beric drinks wine.
  3. There were a lot of cases where Maegor was surprisingly lenient or unwilling to take the obvious course. For example he made almost no attempt to chase down Aegon nor Jaehaerys even before either of them had declared. He also seemed to ignore the ones who helped Aegon, but it's mentioned they feared his reprisals. Not really an answer I suppose, but at least we have a bit of a pattern.
  4. Melisandre's lack of eating is only known because we've read her POV, she deliberately pretends to eat and sleep and do we know of anyone who has figured that out about her? I don't think we have. Thus we do have precedent for someone who has successfully hidden these basic functions, no? And given the overall lack of data on how resurrections work and how many different varieties there are: Qyburn, Others, Coldhands, R'hllor, etc) I personally don't feel comfortable shutting the door on other possibilities. Tyanna is almost certainly not a Red Priest, certainly not an Other, and well with regards to Qyburn I guess we just don't know. But it is fair to say Gregor was horribly wounded AND poisoned AND freakish besides, so he's not the best template for "typical" necromancy, I think. So I am against looking at different forms of magic and thinking Tyanna's magic would work the same as the other kinds we've seen. In fact because there are so many forms of resurrection in ASOIAF/TWOIAF, it stands to reason there are additional forms of it as well.
  5. There are two separate offhand quotes about Maegor returning from the grave in Fire & Blood. The first is Jaehaerys' master at arms saying something like "even if Maegor returned from the grave I'd wager on you" re: single combat. Then later when Balerion returns with Aerea (along with 3 horn blasts) the maester writes something like "many thought Maegor had returned from the grave to mount Balerion once again" Furthermore there are a huge number of Maegor/Gregor parallels, and Gregor obviously "returned from the grave" so to speak. The maesters certainly suggest he was alive when Tyanna got to him, but the subtext hints very strongly that he was dead (and no maesterly author would pre-suppose he literally returned from the grave without a massive amount of proof). It's not enough to be certain, but enough to be confident imo.
  6. History of Westeros

    Errors in the WOIAF

      Thanks! I've responded in that thread instead of here.
  7. History of Westeros

    Errors in the WOIAF

      Agree, a biased source or a mistaken assumption is where I'm leaning as well. I suppose I should be open to the possibility that slavery was part of the Andal ancient past, but I really doubt it despite that anecdote from TWOIAF. I'll explain:   Nearly all the kingdoms/realms/nations are static. Most seem to have an early development period where things get worked out, but after that they stay put in terms of ethics, trade, religion, technology etc.     Westeros has been in this quasi-medieval state for eons. Qarth has been the same for eons. Slaver's Bay. The Free Cities. The Dothraki of four hundred years ago are essentially identical to the ones now in basically every way possible, etc etc. There are shifts of power, conquests, political upheavals, and extinctions... but not many cultural changes. Lorath is perhaps an exception that comes to mind, and there are others. Balon/Euron's dad tried to change the Ironborn and had some success, but once he died Balon tried to bring back the Old Way.   In addition, the Andals were less united than most cultures, at least the ones who came to Westeros during the early waves. It's hard for me to accept that ALL the Andals gave up slavery unless it was a major part of the Faith of the Seven. Otherwise, surely some Andals would enslave (such as First Men armies they defeated), and others would not. But there's zero hint that the invading Andals enslaved a single First Man. If it indeed has been part of the Faith since its inception (since they hated/feared Valyria this fits very well, and the ideals of Knighthood are, in many ways, the exact opposite of Valyrian ruling ideals... but that's another topic altogether).   So the Andals abandoning slavery is possible but the more I think about it, the more problems I find. 
  8. History of Westeros

    Errors in the WOIAF

      c'mon now. Not saying you're wrong but you should know better than to say something without posting evidence/proof. :)   Where is this stated? (apart from here). We're told at least a few times that slavery is an abomination to both old gods and new. The Faith of the Seven existed back when the Andals invaded Ib as shown the quote I posted.
  9. History of Westeros

    Errors in the WOIAF

    Standard disclaimer re: "sorry if this has been posted already"   I came across a curiosity in a recent re-listen of the book.   "Others followed the mazemakers on Lorath in the centuries that followed. For a time the isles were home to a small, dark, hairy people, akin to the men of Ib. Fisherfolk, they lived along the coasts and shunned the great mazes of their predecessors. They in turn were displaced by Andals, pushing north from Andalos to the shores of Lorath Bay and across the bay in longships. Clad in mail and wielding iron swords and axes, the Andals swept across the islands, slaughtering the hairy men in the name of their seven-faced god and taking their women and children as slaves."   The Andals don't take slaves. This is only reference to such and there's plenty to indicate the opposite. This is pretty easily dismissed as a maester error rather than an author error, but it does seem to be an error either way.
  10. History of Westeros

    The ASOIAF wiki thread

    On the Daeron the Drunken page: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Daeron_Targaryen_(son_of_Maekar_I) appears the following line: "He also told Ser Duncan about a dream he had. A great red dragon would fall on Ser Duncan, dead, but the knight would walk off alive." The word "red" should be removed. Daeron's dream did not specify a color for the dragon, and that makes it seem like some sort of red/black dragon (i.e Blackfyre) reference. GRRM doesn't seem to have even invented (or fully invented) the idea of the Blackfyre Rebellions until after the Hedge Knight.
  11. History of Westeros

    Errors in the WOIAF

    In addition to SFDanny's comments, I'll add that Prince has several meanings, but it never means "heir". The simplest definition is "close male relative of the royal family" or something similar. Bran & Rickon were Princes after Robb became King in the North, for example. Tommen was a Prince at birth, not because Robert died, etc.
  12. History of Westeros

    Errors in the WOIAF

    Ran, this is almost certainly a longshot, but is there any chance the audiobook will have corrections? Have Roy re-read a few parts? Or add an errata to the end? Seems unlikely but I'm very hopeful. It would be a shame if the audio version was forever un-corrected.
  13. History of Westeros

    World of Ice and Fire App Update

    Lord Wyman brought up the idea of marrying her to Ser Rodrik/Maester Luwin/Bran, saying something to the effect of "she was born Manderly, perhaps she'd like to rejoin the family". She herself brings it up herself when speaking to those three (she was against the idea). Of course, technically he's not courting a corpse, so that should be past tense. :)
  14. History of Westeros

    World of Ice and Fire App Update

    That's why they are so famous: time travel. Ulmer is bitter that Marty of House McFly didn't take him along.
  15. History of Westeros

    World of Ice and Fire App Update

    ...and who says Victarion is a simpleton?!? Check out the poetic depth our great reaver possesses: Near the end, before the smoking ketch was swallowed by the sea, the cries of the seven sweetlings changed to joyous song, it seemed to Victarion Greyjoy. A great wind came up then, a wind that filled their sails and swept them north and east and north again, toward Meereen and its pyramids of many-colored bricks. On wings of song I fly to you, Daenerys, the iron captain thought. Sorry, irrelevant. But couldn't help it.