Hugorfonics

Word. For sure. Was that a thing in naval combat before the age of exploration? Like Athens or Carthage or Venice or whomever? Yea, or even like Ramsay. Flying a friendly flag so they invite you into their center

That's very piratey too, striking a foes banner. Of course pirates did this strictly for nefarious purposes while this would be for peace. But I don't see it, there's like thousands of these noblehouses so I don't expect the army to march with a litany of flags. Also marching to face Rhaegar, I doubt Robert brought along the dragon in case he planned for defeat. I'd guess striking their banners just means taking down theirs and only leaving the poll. Word! Looks like the pride flag. I wonder what the peace banner looks like when dealing with Northerners or Rhllor folk

I thought that in WW he saw the battle was losing, ditched his line because he saw Robb but before he reached him he was captured. Probably by disarming him and then some kicks to the face. Later with the Brave Companions, he's already in chains and it's the two of them vs a whole squad. He's like already captured. (Question. Did Jaime fly the white at WW? Or during his conquest of the RL In affc?) However on both these situations I think surrender is absolutely the correct move. Live to fight another day, if the kg dies on a private mission he failed his king. This is very unlike Ser Arys who did die directly defending his sovereign. I was alluding to Barristan. But Jaime perplexed me because, did he technically surrender to Robert with his sword at his feet, or did he hook up with his dad and Tywin and Robert made some backdoor deal. I know Jaime was pardoned but that's not the same thing as surrendering

Np, I think Ramsays fascinating. Maybe Aerys to Jaime? Propping him up at Harrenhal only to humiliate him. Further toying with him and getting him to do his bidding that goes against his house. Also Jaimes a replacement, an empty soul living in someone else's shell. But there are 7 of them, while there's only one Reek. And while Aerys created his hero, Theon created himself, the humiliation though gets rid of that. And the toying I still think works, but while Aerys orders Jaime to stop Tywin is beneficial it's not to the level that Reek does when he like conquers MC or makes Ramsay a "Stark". And of course, Jaime kills Aerys which is not something I believe Reek is capable of.

I'm not sure

Ramsay is Ramsay. Trueborn heir of Winterfell. I think the allegedly is a strong part. Euron allegedly raped his sister in law, Gregor allegedly murdered his sister. It's all conjecture but we think the worst because these characters are the worst. But they probably didn't Ned. And then also Theon himself. (Torments Theon not like Theon) Stark. So much of Bolton mojo is just mimicking Stark magic. Also Arya and the faceless

Oh that's kinda cool. A white flag is the flag of submission although KG famously don't surrender (unless you count all the ones who've surrendered)

I didn't say cared for, I said infatuation for a better word and I compared it to Ramsay to Reek. Also I didn't mean to be like boys will be boys, more like kings will be kings. Aerys was savage with his wife, Robert was a rapist and an abuser with his and according to Renly womanized his lords daughters. It's all grime, but it's not close to the level of Joff. As a punishment. Punishment for what? Something not real, not physical. Anger over seeing him after Nymeria or like, anger that she's capable of facilitating his emotions. I'm sure it did. But not to the level that Nymeria and Eddard produced. There's a clear way they communicated in all three steps and their relationship changed every time for the worst. If Joffrey wanted entertainment he could get a whore, or a Reek or whatever. But he stayed with Sansa. And on the sidelines Lancel and them were hooting but Sandor the loyal dog almost snapped, Tyrion wound up coming in and a mass murder was barley prevented. Even when Sansa becomes his aunt he stays fixated. This isn't an eni meenie miny moe, it's only Sansa. (I think there's a large difference between having soldiers closest to KL and being the second most powerful family) He likes Marge. They dance together and stuff, that she's totally at his whim is definitely still a thing. As Cersei was under Roberts. If Joffs sadism was just because he's a fucker he'd have showed Tyrell his colors, but Marge didn't see him weak, Marge's father didn't call him a monster. I'd say to Joff she's a concept, to Tyrell a train ticket (same as you here) and for Cersei, a minnie me. Tywin isn't responsible for Sansa. Like everything Tywin does he's just reaping the benefit of his children's work. Cersei never thinks about Sansa in relation to her father, in fact when her father decided to take Sansa off her hands she totally flips. As if she owns Sansa like a pet or a Minnie me. . Cersei looked at their uncle in disbelief. "Sansa is my hostage. She goes nowhere without my leave." . I don't think such strong feelings can be evoked without feelings. If Cersei or Joff wants a dart board the world is their oyster, then can get any young boy or woman or whomever but instead they obsess over Sansa Eta. Also, who doesn't love Sansa? Lysa? Definitely strong emotions though. But Sandor, Tyrion, Petyr, Lord Robert. It's not like Joffs special for having an infatuation with Sansa

For sure, not in KL like that. But im gonna address this more below The Little Bird definitely knew the tune. Sandor thinks its hysterical, but does Lannister? Tyrion, the husband, sees through her lies and "armor". And again I dont wanna use the word love, but like, a less fucked up Ramsay to Reek relationship (he wants his Reek back), infatuation? Whatever the word, Joff sees Sansa as emotions not a person so (which ill also adress more below) Sansa is able (mostly) to just bullshit and like kiss Joffs sword while insinuating hes a punk and Joff smiles. Cersei as well, I mean theyre really like the same story, child under a mad king who gets sandbagged. I dont see how any mom can not wild out on her girlfriend beating son, but for a victim of abuse too (although she did? in her half ass measure), so I agree there's heavy delusion but I think its more to Joff then to Sansa. Also, Cerseis cursed, she knows a younger more beautiful queen will take all she has and she never thinks its Sansa. And shes paranoid as hell about Ned and her brother in laws, and brother(s), and Marge and the Tyrells but never Sansa. Does the little bird just whistle under her breath, or does her tune too infatuate Cersei? (its not a great word, Reek? lol)) Ima go with Joff first. Hes what, 12 14? Mad hormones and stuff, its a strange time for a boy lol. But mom and dad say hes going to get engaged, and guess what, shes fucking gorgeous. And the way she looks at him? Its probably his first crush. And Joff is a jerk, he punked her brother to show his machismo but 13 year old boys are jerks, especially when a pretty girl is involved. Life for Joffs looking good, so he grabs some wine and takes a walk with her. This is normal and kinda romantic, Sansa herself is swooning and theres no reason to think Joff isnt either. Fastforward and the machismo is gone. Sansa looks at him with infatuation still but also pity and worry. "Dont fucking look at me". Like what a dick, but again, these feelings which is all a prepubescent boy really is in jumbles. And afterwards he does try, or tries to forget at least. And one day her dad comes in and says his dad is Jaime! Ewww. What would your feelings be if someone told you that, and it probably wasnt the first time you were told that? Joffrey is a Baratheon king, brave and glorious. But Ned and Sansa saw him differently. And he fucking snaps. And the cruelty that he exhibits on Tyrion or the antlerfolk or the starving smallfolk is horrendous but it doesnt compare at all to how he treats Sansa. And like a 12 year old pulling a girls hair cuz he doesnt know how to express himslef, but compounded with trauma and the absolutism of the Iron Throne its a fucking mess. So imo Sansas wory that Joff will turn Marge into "Reek" is unwarranted as only Sansa had that amount of influence over Joffrey. Like, not parcheesi, but shes there cheering Tommen on against straw, thats kinda a game. And Cersei does make her a dress for her wedding, which isnt great but its something. And I agree that Tywin with his politics sees Sansa as the North but Cersei doesnt seem to stress the political angle and wants to keep her around, sorta like a pet. If I too was Sansa, id absolutely call bullshit. Just the mention of Cersei sends a shiver of fright down her spine. Yes! Exactly! Curved. Like she was never a thing, a friend. Joff doesnt curve her, he promises to rape her indefinitely on her wedding. Cersei doesnt forget either and as Spring's quote above says, shes totally fixated on this supposed betrayal. Like as if Sansas Jaime. Such strong emotions like "she'll be singing to the stranger, begging for his kiss" (btw what a fucking fantastic line! little bird singing, bw singing to the gods, again singing of the gods to Sandor. Amazing). Cersei's a fucking psycho, and like Joff we see her peculiarity with like Frankenstein and burning the tower of the hand cuz of daddy issues, but the level of insanity that Sansa can manifest, its the exact opposite of Tyrells with their eyes up front. So as if everything I said want already controversial. Shes kinda an idiot but kinda a genius. Im not sure about the differences between words like stupid and clever, probably cuz im too stupid, but Sansas clever as fuck. Shes able to read people, Joff Cersei Sandor Lysa, and able to read situations, why LF got Harrenhal, Lords declarants business, Lord Robert's heir remarkably fast (which is a reason why I think shes under no illusion about his poisoning). But shes gullible, trustworthy to the limit of foolishness, obviously all of agot but also her faith in Tyrell, Dontos, LF. And stubborn in her upheld anger to Arya or her strict code of knightly honor which Sandor perplexed her with, and that definitely did change like I think her anger to Arya could as well but who she is I think still who she is. So basically I can understand why she has the perception of being an idiot, not because she doesnt talk or cant do math but because her initial reaction is often stronger then reality which often leads to travesty for frankly all of Westeros. But again, short of Tyrion, I think shes the cleverest person in asoiaf in terms of real politick. Like Spring said, I think indifference is the exact wrong word. What does Sansa owe Cersei, for her food and shelter, a sharp knife and a twist of the wrist. What does Theon owe Stark? See its complicated, in the eyes of the victim its a clear cut situation, they were getting fucked so retribution is justice but what should Cersei have done? The literal only chip on the table, aside from an ugly greatsword and made up boundaries around the RL and North, is Sansa. She can not be traded away because of decency because Robb is tearing Cerseis kingdom apart. And idk how Stannis kept Dany but in reality, for the sake of the 7 kingdoms, (lol, strong interpretation on the words for the sake of) they shoulda kept the princess like Theon is in twow. But instead Cersei played the mother in law. And granted it was in her proud vain self centered and all around fucked way, but it was a way. It wasnt indifference like Marge and the cousins or even Lysa who wanted to send her away.

Lol this is great stuff! Thanks for looking it up. (your thumbnail didnt work btw but I found the post) Yea, but I think there are differences from these and the Unkiss for example, where reality is fundamentally changed (like Always Sunny's clip show episode). I love that quote so much, one of my fav parts of affc (with the sc looking awkwardly at each other, like well this ladys nuts). Shes definitely delusional, like the life of Sansa was not a good one (especially reflected with Cersei's own KL childhood experience with her two kings) but I wouldn't call any of it really a lie either. Certainly not on the level of her spazzing out over Stannis calling her kids Jaimes. But Sansa did play with her kids, she was given food clothing and shelter. Cersei's talks with Sansa like the BW one especially was I think her kinda trying to look out. When the mob came she didnt care about Tyrion beating up her son or the fear in the KG's eyes or whomever, she wanted Sansa safe. (How much of this is her freaking out over Jaime is hardly debatable, 99%, nevertheless a small part of her is I think actually worried for Sansa) When Sansa had to marry the "gargoyle" Cersei expressed sympathy. Cersei's relationship with Sansa is I think extremely complicated and the fact which Cersei believes, that Sansa is responsible for Joffs death I think drove her to this spazing of rage. She also had this weird relationship with Joff if ima be honest, not Lannister weird but, idk, and Joff too in his own twisted and delusional way i dont wanna say loved, but had feelings for Sansa. So when hes harassing her and Cersei doesnt blink, which leaves Tyrion to think How blind can she be, is I think a specific weird triangle of Cersei Joff and Sansa. So like, when Cerseis recapping the day over her eighth glass of wine I still imo think we should take all this is as nearly fact. Instead of Barri remembering the days of Aerys' dad because he cant even remember Dany punking Dorans son. The last example imo is just a comedic figure of speech.

The mad king. Robert? Stannis? Euron? Viserys? Joffrey? Cersei and Dany for the sake of inclusivity? They all take after Aerys. The only kings who dont are Robb Renly and Balon and that may have to do with their quick deaths and sparse screen time. Why was Aerys mad? Well he looked the part, always yelling and bugging, and he did a mad act, he started the war by ordering the death of child Ned and friend. This friend, looks the part, always yelling and bugging and did a mad act by starting a war when he ordered the death of Dany. Robert, mad. He did burn folk though, never heard of a noose? Nutty, like Stannis the mad. No compassion, no love, straight murderous dick head. Euron Joff and Cersei as well are mad. Tbh I dont even know how to compare him to Viserys the mad. Then Dany, obviously the greatest monarch in asoiaf, fucking insane I love Jorahs reaction, hes like, wtf? So Aerys wants to blow up his house because dragon. This is like his daughters level of thinking, is it mad if it works? Yes.

Yea, exactly Ok cool. (I actually cant find Sansa calling it Paw. When was that?). Its pretty funny though, definitely a better name then Claw. As Arya only talks about it with the Brotherhood theres no way Sansa could overhear it, but maybe these sisters think similarly? Arya in agot? Yea for sure, lots of the antagonism the reader directs at Sansa is actually through the eyes of Arya, I agree. But is this unreliable or just wrong? Like Ned cant stop thinking on why Cersei would murder JonA which is, wrong. Its a little different then Barri misremembering his past or even adwd, or Sansa misremembering acok. As in her flashback dreams are hazy and not fully informative? Because thats like Ned. Or that its a lie? She thinks about how she like kinda defeated Tywin and JonA. Threw em together with Ned Robert and Tyrion who she did defeat but, Tywin and JonA were annoying but she didnt beat them. Is this they type of unreliable narration your referring to?

Poles and Hungarians also tend to agree that only the Germans were responsible for the Holocaust and not their respective nations. Rewriting history for their benefit is an old tradition. (With Hungary it's really hysterical, like 20% of their names are Atilla, as if Atilla was Magyar. He was not. But the west call em all Huns so, close enough?)

So house Stark is criminal? If it's snowing, it's just white. Its like capitulation. Are the black flags ok? Like Greyjoy and Targaryen at night time? Plus they're both amphibious powers which would make their sigil very piratey.

I haven't heard about this. What outline? What about Ser Arys?

Lol I didn't mean it like that. Just that with different povs it could be like Jeynes hips however probably unlike Vals eyes who's seen change color of in the same book by the same pov Maybe taking care of the real Jeyne and her soon to be son?

That's a reasonable explanation. I disagree. No need to downplay the genius, I think all these clues and tidbits laying around in agot and later was purposely put in to be combed. Yea for sure. I used to (well still do I guess) think it'd be cool to make like an Animatrix style asoiaf, so basically asoiaf animated but every pov is a different artist with a different style. So we see what Joff looks like for example from Sansa and Aryas perspective. I don't remember the Tyrion regret comment. But if he regretted it he didn't back down as Tyrion in adwd is still acrobatic (when he threw up on Jorahs shoes). Eye color, sure Renly, who cares imo lol. Val I think is purpose though as it's surrounded by imagery and in the same book. Dancer being referred to by Theon as a girl is a mistake, but it could easily be Theons instead of GRRMs. Again tho this can just be a matter of opinion. Cat wants to think her daughter in law would be good at pregnancy or whatever, Jaime only has eyes for Cersei. This could easily be the same thing as counting thousands of bannermen and being off a dozen. So, what unreliable? I can think of two, Unkiss because although it's told and retold a book apart it's so dramatic and center to the story, mixed with Sansa not remembering Joff vs Mycha we can see this is Sansa being unreliable/ living in la la land which was definitely her theme in agot Barristan and the confrontation with some outlaw back in the day doesnt add up with the white book written by the LCs, so his insistence that Dany didn't laugh in the face of the Dornish knights can be taken as misremembering and not polite revisionism. That he's an old man who takes hit to the head for a living supports his memory lapse. Aside from Selmy and Sansa are there any other unreliable povs?

There's a pack mentality for sure but it goes different directions. Like the same ones who tried to kill Sansa cheered for Marge, and they were also in a group. It's all really about the food and emotions. Also fleabottomers always suck, like Dunks memories or when Tyrion took his strolls. Strikes and mass elections are definitely organized, protests maybe less so but usually are. The two riots, dance times and acok, were I'd say like 99% percent chance they were organized. So little imo about the attack on the dragonpit makes sense. There was like that mysterious prophet (maybe two?) Who just disappeared when shit popped off. And then just, humans do crazy stuff, like war and what not. But just charging into dragon fire is so stupid. Tbh I don't remember the story that well but I remember thinking stuffs not adding up. Especially when compared to what Sam was told, that maesters killed the dragons not smallfolk. Acok it's really 99.99%. Where was Varys? He's always there, except for this one specific occasion (sending the girl to Dorne in all royal splendor), and then Tyreek goes missing and Varys is all like "idk where he is".

Nah. Thats not very democratic. Strikes and protests and mass elections aren't the cause or effects of stupidity. Treating people like beasts, discouraging reading and stepping above your class, mixed with a few healthy doses of propaganda are the causes and effects of stupidity Reason for justice, not cruel and the unusual

I'd say the chance of that is highly likely. Although the hookers of Westeros use moon tea religiously and with the heavy no no on crows fathering children I think there's some type of unwritten arrangement so that's not a heavy thing. However, it is still a numbers game so I still agree the chances are high.

Yea exactly. Like Jon all of 15 is hearing this story, which is definitely according to me at least, a child. But if I were to guess id put Mances are in between Rickon and Sansa, so like 6-12 imo

I don't have an age, and if I did it's not baby, but child

I thought... Baby? I got no idea lol. I used to know this stuff. Gimmie a minute...

I meant Mance himself was a baby raised a crow. But for sure, Gilly's kid is likely to relive this life

Id say it's the opposite. Or maybe like a median type situation Sam's issue isn't his weight or his literacy. It's his crippling anxiety attacks which one might expect from a kid being disinherited and hounded out of his father's house