Viserys - Dastardly Villain or Misunderstood?

[MegaTechPC]

Viserys - Dastardly Villain or Misunderstood?

I choose option C: Idiot.

[Nymeria Of Rhoyne]

When looking at any character portrayed in a villainous light, I feel that one must always consider their current actions. Sure, you can always say that his past might be able to pardon his actions but I find that to be a rather poor excuse. His past doesn't take away the fact that he still was downright horrific in his treatment of others. How could he have possibly been a just ruler if he was incapable of showing a shed of kindness to the Dothraki? Or even his little sister for that matter.

Anyway, I felt his death was justified in every sense of the word. He was delusional, conceited, and empowered with a twisted sense of righteousness. Trying to find any redeemable quality in Viserys is like trying to find any redeemable qualities in Ser Gregor Clegane.

[Raz The Fallen]

Viserys was said to not always be the way he was. He was driven mad due to paranoia. I don''t see any similarities to Gregor Clegane who was a sadistic brutal person since birth. As someone who suffers from paranoid type schizophrenia, I can somewhat relate to his story. Not so much how he turned out but I know living in that mindset can be torture.

[Scorched_Air]

OK, fine, Dany is the beast here. But she has every right to it. She is blood of the dragon and f**k you if you stand in her way. Aegon the Conqueror conquered Westeros - Dorne and he is revered. So... who cares about a pathetic little s**t like Viserys? Aw, poor guy, mistreated all the time.

Power matters. Power of the blood (dragonblood), power of the character (Viserys is pathetic), etc. etc. etc.

Forget this guy. Nobody cries for royals that act like that in Westeros or Essos. If he was a peasant I'd have sympathy with him, of course.

[PG-13]

Um, yeah, no. Viserys abused Daenerys and hurt her for her entire life. He sold her like a slave.

Viserys deserved what he got. He brought it on himself, and Daenerys is in no way to blame. She tried to save him, and told him to put away the knife. It wasn't her fault her crazy incest brother was drunk and violent, refusing to listen to reason.

[laughterkillz]

When it comes to Viserys, I can't say I have any strong emotions.I definitely agree that he's misunderstood, but I also don't feel like he was anywhere close to being pitiable or "good."

I've seen a few people posting about how he's probably insane from the fact of the probably generations of inbreeding within the Targaryens. While it would be absurd to completely rule this out as a factor for his crude behavior, I don't think it actually affected him when it comes to the fact that he's a downright git. If you look at Rhaegar or Daenarys though, they both seem entirely mentally capable, and emotionally stable and controlled, subdued even. No, I don't think any sort of mental, or emotional handicap as a side effect of genetic inefficiencies are to blame for Viserys' less than honorable behavior.

I do feel like he has reasons for why he does the things he does, although they're not justifiable, imo. To have gone through the extensive amount of trauma's he surely endured growing up, he probably did suffer from some sort of disorder, such as PTSD or extreme paranoia. He was also built up by the few loyalists he was surrounded with growing up that he was the rightful heir to the iron throne, who had been cheated and disrespected extensively, not only through the consequences of Robert's Rebellion, but also because he had fled and grew up in the Free Cities where he was not recognized or acknowledged by the masses as any sort of nobility, leading him to have a lot of pent up frustration, hurt pride, and anger. Definitely not the best way to emotionally handle the situation he was in, but I do feel like he's not entirely to blame for his emotions, outlooks, and behavior.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

I've decided that I have no idea who Viserys was. He seems to be such a contradiction.

Everyone seems to think he's a useless and pathetic joke, yet he is central to everyone's schemes and Jorah puts considerable time manipulating Dany into disliking him.

He's seems to be a foolish idiot, yet he does an excellent job raising and educating Dany - something that should take extreme patience and care.

He is supposed to be stupid, yet he somehow convinces lords to take him for close to a decade.

He is supposed to be lazy, impatient and craven, yet he holds off marrying and chooses instead to wander the Dothraki Sea with savages for close to a year before finally threatening a Khal.

He supposedly lusts after his sister, but never actually takes advantage of her.

He is supposedly a cruel asshole, yet he never kills anyone.

[Hupo Storm]

Did Viserys educated his sister?I toght the people that took them in educated dany.

I fell sorry for him,if he survived a little longer he would have what he was looking for,since after that guy try to kill Dany Drogo promisses the Throne.Not sure if Drogo would promisse the Throne to him,but he would have war anyway.

[Aldark]

Well it's sad that he died so early at the story , it would be interesting to see crazy Viserys invade Westeros and get killed somehow xD . That's how i thought things would turn for him.

I never hated the guy except his first scenes with Dany , i found rather dull the whole Dany story from the beginning so i didn't care so much about it to say the least. After those first scenes i realised he wasn't a bad guy , but a semi-mad guy searching for the throne he was promissed and thought it belonged to him. He clearly inherited the crazy Targaryen genes though...Plus a traumatic childhood , poor Viserys , the only crown he ever had caused his death...Daenerys was pretty heartless not to saw mercy on him THOUGH. I mean , girl without him you would be lost in the world not knowing who you were and you'd never get any chance of becoming...Khaleesi.

[The Killer Snark]

Viserys was neither. He wasn't completely evil, he was just a selfish bullying idiot who happened to be half-crazy, and that's what he was understood as. I felt sorry for him more than anything, especially during his humiliating, agonizing death scene. I'm with MegaTechPC. I vote option C: Fool.

[DameofThrones]

He said a jerky thing to his sister, yes.

But, what creepy services did Viserys have to perform when he was going around trying to find a place for the two of them to live? There is a good chance Viserys performed sexual favors to keep Dany alive. To him, it was now time for her to return the favor.

Respecting a foreign culture? This is a culture that admires and condones rape and slavery.

Plus, the Dothraki were not living up to the end of the bargain. Khal Drogo took Dany (and Dany's virginity). It was the last valuable thing Viserys had. He had protected her for years. He suffered for her for years. And now he had nothing. Some raping savage took his last possesion.

And where was his army? He was promised an army. Do you think Drogo would have ever really gone across the sea? Nah.

After six months of walking around the Dothraki Sea smelling like horse shit, Viserys snapped.

Now, yes, it's wrong to think about Dany as a possession, but let's think of this as an analogy:

Imagine you have no family or friends. And imagine you spent your life crafting the perfect book that will make you a world-class author. Countless hours. In fact, years went into it. You spent all your money and time on it. Your entire life has been for this book. Now, you give your only manuscript to a publisher who promises you $10 million. You wait in the waiting room for days and days. Every time you peek in to see what's going on, the publisher is using your book as toilet paper. You ask, "hey, where's the publishing? Where's the money?" That publisher just grins at you and tells you to piss off.

Your whole life right there, being used an toilet paper.

That's Viserys' mind set.

I've got quite a few problems with this line of thinking, both in terms of ASOIAF and in life in general. If Viserys actually cared about Dany, as you indicate you think he does based on your tenuous conjecture that Viserys had to rely on sexual favors to keep her alive, he wouldn't want her to have to do the same thing in return. That's pretty paternalistic and offensive to indicate that she needed to do the same thing in return. A caring brother would protect his sister from rape above pretty much anything else, not intentionally subject her to it in order to put himself on a throne.

It's ironic that you say that it's wrong to think about her as a possession, but you seem incapable of doing anything else. The precise reason why he's such a monster is because he did think of her as "toilet paper", rather than a thinking, feeling human being.

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

I've got quite a few problems with this line of thinking, both in terms of ASOIAF and in life in general. If Viserys actually cared about Dany, as you indicate you think he does based on your tenuous conjecture that Viserys had to rely on sexual favors to keep her alive, he wouldn't want her to have to do the same thing in return. That's pretty paternalistic and offensive to indicate that she needed to do the same thing in return. A caring brother would protect his sister from rape above pretty much anything else, not intentionally subject her to it in order to put himself on a throne.

It's ironic that you say that it's wrong to think about her as a possession, but you seem incapable of doing anything else. The precise reason why he's such a monster is because he did think of her as "toilet paper", rather than a thinking, feeling human being.

We're talking about understanding Viserys' mindset.

Viserys is a monster compared to real society. He physically and mentally abused his sister.

But, considering what he went through and comparing him to everyone else in the story, he's probably in the top 25% of good people in ASOIAF. He never killed anyone, he never raped anyone, he never sold anyone into slavery.

Yeah, he treated his sister like property....just like every other character.

Let's look at other fan favorites:

Dany: watched her brother get executed; fell in love with a rapist, murderer, slaver; allowed her dragons to burn people including children

Jorah: sold people into slavery

Tyrion: killed several people including his ex-girlfriend and father

Jamie: banged his sister, tried to murder a little boy

Stannis: killed his brother, burned several people alive

Arya: murdered several people including a singer who was wrongly forced to join the Night's Watch

The truly good people (Davos, Sansa) are few and far between.

[DameofThrones]

Yeah, I see your point - it's true that seeing everything from Dany's point of view makes everything he does seem terrible because she's the one he's doing it to. If we only saw Tyrion from Shae's point of view, maybe we'd be less sympathetic to his cause. The thing that made me like the character least is the reference to Aerys's madness, which seems to indicate that GRRM wanted us to think he was capable of doing something as terrible as burning down the city of King's Landing. But with what we're given, I'll agree that he is a relatively benign character. Who knows what he'd have been capable of with thousands Dothraki screamers doing his bidding, though.

[ANDYJTArrant]

I think the only reason he didn't kill was because he didn't have the power. Most of the time we did know him he was surrounded by Dothraki who would have killed him on the spot if he did anything that pissed them off.

So yes I think he is a villain. He takes advantage of his sister, beats her and threatened to kill his unborn nephew...

[Pengwin7]

GRRM wants us to see Viserys an incredibly unlikeable.

I found that really interesting... because Daenerys is supposed to be a heroine... eventually?

Most POV characters, we view in a "good light".

I also find it VERY curious when any two siblings are born a great distance apart. {cough *Jaime/Cersei.............................Tyrion* cough}

From what I understand... Vis is maybe 9 or 10 years older than Dany.
Like... what gives?
IMO - that's Clear Sign #1 that a mother/father either:

a) Didn't love each other

b-)Didn't really try to have more kids after kid #1... or #2

c) Perhaps the kids aren't of the father

d) All of the above

As brother/sister, I find this very curious... makes me want to believe that they are not brother/sister... which I do.

But that's not exactly a conversation for simply within the Game of Thrones book itself - so I won't go into it.

But that's what I get from Viserys in GoT: significantly different from his "blood" (Daenerys).

[Skinchanging Sweetrobin]

GRRM wants us to see Viserys an incredibly unlikeable.

I found that really interesting... because Daenerys is supposed to be a heroine... eventually?

Most POV characters, we view in a "good light".

I also find it VERY curious when any two siblings are born a great distance apart. {cough *Jaime/Cersei.............................Tyrion* cough}

From what I understand... Vis is maybe 9 or 10 years older than Dany.

Like... what gives?

IMO - that's Clear Sign #1 that a mother/father either:

a) Didn't love each other

b-)Didn't really try to have more kids after kid #1... or #2

c) Perhaps the kids aren't of the father

d) All of the above

As brother/sister, I find this very curious... makes me want to believe that they are not brother/sister... which I do.

But that's not exactly a conversation for simply within the Game of Thrones book itself - so I won't go into it.

But that's what I get from Viserys in GoT: significantly different from his "blood" (Daenerys).

I agree. I think its very likely that Daenerys isn't a Targaryen.

Quaithe has told Dany to remember who she is.

And Dany has memories of a lemon tree in Braavos and yet Braavos doesn't have lemon trees.

Something is wrong about the story Viserys has told her about her childhood.

[Viridiana]

Daenerys has qualities i think a lot of people do in such a situation in life, when you are struck down to the people closest to you, disregarded emotionally or controlled.. it gets to a point in most people where they choose fight or flight, i think that's why Daenerys sticks out as a popular character, due to her personality metamorphosis, moving separately from her brother's hand.. in which Viserys now sees how he has pushed her and she is no longer needs him, a mixture of jealousy, frustration and resentfulness overtakes him, because he always had vied for control and power, whether it the Iron Throne, which he believes is his birthright and also the control over his sister, which in their culture, would of been his property in his eyes, 'the Targaryen marriages'.

However since Viserys' death, Daenerys has now adopted a similar personality to her brother also, the sense of entitlement sometimes shrouding tactical sense and reason.

[Batbob45]

he a dumbass jackass

[The Killer Snark]

Are we still discussing this? I mean, okay, he bit him, and he should have been red carded. He deserved a punishment for definite, though it might have been a bit severe. But his side are out now..I mean...Oh, sorry, silly me. It's the wrong character I'm discussing. Nope, Daenarys is definitely Targaryen. How else to explain the mastery over dragons and her obvious resistance to heat and at one point fire.

[Sapphireghost18]

He is a misunderstood villain. Everything we know about his childhood is from Dany's perspective. I mean, imagine spending most of your formative years raising a child while searching for money and support all while dodging assassins. Seriously, you try and not be fucked up after that experience. A lot of fans cheer for Arya while she turns into a heartless killer (me included) but, hate Viserys for being in a similar situation. The guy is a total dick but not without reason. Paranoia can ruin a person but, it doesn't change the fact that he's a total psychopath.