Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

VarysForKing

The Winged Shadow (*aDwD Spoilers*)

Recommended Posts

Though I'm new to posting I've been a long time fan of the board and have seen lots of discussion regarding the lacking size of Dany's dragons this far in the series, as well as questioning if they will be ready to do battle once they've reached Westeros, potentially against an army of Others. Yet after reading some of the pre released chapters from the upcoming aDwD I think the answer is now clear, not all of them might be big enough or viscious enough for war when the final confrontation arrives...but one will be. In one of Dany's sample chapters we learn that both Rhaegal and Viserion have been subdued and confined to one of Mereen's many fighting pits, a consequence of Drogon's killing a young boy, a fact which is revealed in the epilouge of aFfC. Drogon however, the black beast who since the beginning has continuously stood out as the largest. fiercest, and most capable of the three, has managed to elude capture and has now fled the city. We have already learned from Barristan that dragons possess the capability of unlimited growth just as long as open space and adeqaute food are provided, and we know that Drogon will have little problem fending for himself unconstrained amidst the country side. It's a fact that human children experience perhaps their most rapid growth between one and three years of age, a span that Dany's own "children" currently fall within. To me it seems this new found independence of Drogons has come at an optimal time, and that by the time he is brought under control he could be more massive and intimidating than any of us have yet thought possible. It has already been said that the "Winged Shadow" is Balerion of old reborn, and I believe this statement holds more truth in it than we know. I don't discount the fact that Viserion and Rhaegal will indeed play large roles in the upcoming battles, but I think its clear that in the end the fate of the whole Seven Kingdoms will be determined by Drogon, and that he will without a doubt be ready to lay waste to any forces opposing Dany. The only questions now are who will ride the ferocious monster if he can indeed be tamed, and if his lack of control and wild nature will perhaps lead to him most easily falling under the grasp of Euron Crow Eye's mystical dragon horn? A possible scenario that could prove more than disastrous to the Targeryn cause, and add to the "bittersweet" ending foretold by Martin...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Change the sub heading or delete the thread. It implies right on the title page that Drogon somehow escapes Dany's control and I didn't want to know that ahead of time.

Should be posted in the ADwD subforum as well, instead of in the general area.

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah, he right

but, have we considered that Drogon will in fact be Dragon-napped and turned against Dany, thus leading to a big 2 on 1 Dragon showdown of deah in aDwD??? cool huh?

Didn't think so...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think the point (aside from plot) of showing that Drogon has killed a child is to show that they are now much bigger. Not JUST him, but all of them.

With the five year gap gone, I think we are going to see some freakishly fast growing dragons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to add the possibility that Euron's horn may not have the effect on the dragons that Euron thinks it will have. Not to mention he may want to find someone who can blow the horn and yet survive (Which, perhaps, a true Targ could do). We also don't know if Euron sent Victarion to Slaver's Bay with or without that horn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yeah, he right

but, have we considered that Drogon will in fact be Dragon-napped and turned against Dany, thus leading to a big 2 on 1 Dragon showdown of deah in aDwD??? cool huh?

Didn't think so...

Well the historical 'Dance with Dragons' in Westeros was the title for a civil war where the Targaryens used their dragons against each other...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well the historical 'Dance with Dragons' in Westeros was the title for a civil war where the Targaryens used their dragons against each other...

I'm with you on this one. I doubt GRRM would call this next one ADwD if there wasn't going to be a heck of a lot of dragon play.

As of now, there is are a few possible dragons to add to the already known 3 - this could bring interesting twists to this whole Dance...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
. In one of Dany's sample chapters we learn that both Rhaegal and Viserion have been subdued and confined to one of Mereen's many fighting pits, a consequence of Drogon's killing a young boy, a fact which is revealed in the epilouge of aFfC. Drogon however, the black beast who since the beginning has continuously stood out as the largest. fiercest, and most capable of the three, has managed to elude capture and has now fled the city. We have already learned from Barristan that dragons possess the capability of unlimited growth just as long as open space and adeqaute food are provided, and we know that Drogon will have little problem fending for himself unconstrained amidst the country side. It's a fact that human children experience perhaps their most rapid growth between one and three years of age, a span that Dany's own "children" currently fall within. To me it seems this new found independence of Drogons has come at an optimal time, and that by the time he is brought under control he could be more massive and intimidating than any of us have yet thought possible. It has already been said that the "Winged Shadow" is Balerion of old reborn, and I believe this statement holds more truth in it than we know. I don't discount the fact that Viserion and Rhaegal will indeed play large roles in the upcoming battles, but I think its clear that in the end the fate of the whole Seven Kingdoms will be determined by Drogon, and that he will without a doubt be ready to lay waste to any forces opposing Dany. The only questions now are who will ride the ferocious monster if he can indeed be tamed, and if his lack of control and wild nature will perhaps lead to him most easily falling under the grasp of Euron Crow Eye's mystical dragon horn? A possible scenario that could prove more than disastrous to the Targeryn cause, and add to the "bittersweet" ending foretold by Martin...

This is interesting. I would be exceedingly suprised if Dany made no attempt to rescue her caged children. I cannot envision her leaving them. And we've been told over and over again that the dragon has three heads. Dany cannot succeed without all in the dragons IMHO.

Later...After reading AFfC, I think there may be other dragons forthcoming. This next book could be quite exciting. Perhaps the dragons fight amongst themselves = not for any particular person or side. I'm hoping ADwD is out by spring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drogon is Belarion reborn...i mean he killed a big boar ... how big are they now anyway...bigger than peopel...but are they as big as horses or even bigger...i dont have any idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Drogon is Belarion reborn...i mean he killed a big boar ... how big are they now anyway...bigger than peopel...but are they as big as horses or even bigger...i dont have any idea.

A boar is much smaller than a horse. Basically, it's just a hairy pig, so a big boar might be as high as the waist of a man. However, they are fierce beasts, and very dangerous if you should get into a fight with them (the tusks will rip the arteries of your legs apart).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winged Shadow? Isn't that another name for the Nazguls? :/ Does Dany need Gandalf or Legolas? :)

But seriously, I doubt there's going to be a dragon vs. dragon battle, as much I would like it -- just imagine how dramatic that can be! However, to put it bluntly, Martin is running out of time. If he truly desires fantasy-literature immortality on the order of Tolkien and LOTR, he really needs to move fast. Now. In my opinion AFFC has almost destroyed the series in terms of the pacing and plot (things moved far, far too slowly). If there's any chance left to salvage the series, he cannot afford to delay the big showdown between the dragons and Others any longer. Dany needs to move west and Others need to invade volume 5, supernatural and political maelstrom in volume 6, and final conclusion and wrap-up in volume 7. Any dragon vs. dragon battle will be far too costly in terms of time.

The way I see it Dany maybe has enough time to make one more side trip. Probably to the Vaes Dothrak: to exact vengeance against those Khals who abandoned her, to claim some leadership over the Dothrakis (and get more troops), and some more magic mojo from the "Womb of the World" certainly wouldn't hurt. Mostly, she'll probably have to go there to get Drogon back. Last we heard the black dragon is going toward the Dothraki Sea. It will surely find a lot of food there -- but where can such a big dragon find a constant water supply to satisfy its thirst? Ahh..... :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't know if this has been said but maybe A dance with dragons is not referring to dragons fighting eachother but to Targaryens fighting eachother.Some one of the same blood linage contesting Dany and her claim.. :unsure: Or it could just mean Dragons are fighting the realm ..Therefore a death dance of some sort

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since Martin said that A Dance With Dragons need not end with Dany's invasion of Westeros (at least I believe he said that...), I took the title to be a reference to another Targ civil war/divison. I'm not very knowledgable at the moment with what people have educated guesses about, but I have heard ideas about a "baby Aegon" scenario that Illyario or Varys (or some other means) have another Targ in line. Or someone posing as Aegon. This could be the mummers dragon that is references -- a fake climant for Dany's place, leading to a very large conflict since it would greatly undermine her position. It would in a sense be another civil war, though not quite since neither are technically "rulers" as the last time, but close enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since Martin said that A Dance With Dragons need not end with Dany's invasion of Westeros (at least I believe he said that...)

...not quite what he said. What he said is that A Dance With Dragons need not refer to Dany's invasion of Westeros; I don't recall he's said anything about what her position will look like at the end of the book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Remember. To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

Drogon will flee across the Dothraki Sea, towards Vaes Dothrak. Jhaqo and Mago have yet to be paid for their faithlessness. The dosh khaleen have some wailing to do before Dany as well, as I recall.

I do not think that Danaerys will go with all her numbers. She must leave something behind for Tyrion to do and work with. As well, we can't have too many chapters with Tyrion and DAny together or the same POV gets boring as it tells the same story. GRRM won't do that.

Or, might be, that GRRM will decide the story needs to go faster and we can do without Vaes Dothrak and the dothraki again :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
don't know if this has been said but maybe A dance with dragons is not referring to dragons fighting eachother but to Targaryens fighting eachother.Some one of the same blood linage contesting Dany and her claim.. :unsure: Or it could just mean Dragons are fighting the realm ..Therefore a death dance of some sort

There is no-one of the same blood lineage as Dany. Not that we know of for certain, anyway.

Though I suppose Jon would be if R+L=J. Is that what you meant?

Otherwise, there may be others with Tarq blood, but she is a direct descendant of the last ruling Targaryen. Pretty hard for anyone to contest that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
don't know if this has been said but maybe A dance with dragons is not referring to dragons fighting eachother but to Targaryens fighting eachother.Some one of the same blood linage contesting Dany and her claim.. :unsure: Or it could just mean Dragons are fighting the realm ..Therefore a death dance of some sort

There is a slight, though signifcant, difference between the first "Dance" and the second "Dance" (at least in my mind).

The first, the civil war between Rhaenyra and Aegon II, was the Dance OF Dragons - seems to use "dance" as some sort of collective noun, implying dragons were on both sides (GRRM has confirmed that both sides use dragons in the civil war).

The title being used for the fifth volume is a Dance WITH Dragons. I'd like to think that here the "dance" refers to the intricate manouvering that is going to take place in Meereen and elsewhere and doesn't necessarily mean that we will see dragon vs dragon action.

Maybe I am just being semantically anal.

Aratan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a slight, though signifcant, difference between the first "Dance" and the second "Dance" (at least in my mind).

The first, the civil war between Rhaenyra and Aegon II, was the Dance OF Dragons - seems to use "dance" as some sort of collective noun, implying dragons were on both sides (GRRM has confirmed that both sides use dragons in the civil war).

The title being used for the fifth volume is a Dance WITH Dragons. I'd like to think that here the "dance" refers to the intricate manouvering that is going to take place in Meereen and elsewhere and doesn't necessarily mean that we will see dragon vs dragon action.

Maybe I am just being semantically anal.

Aratan

Not at all, I had the same thought after all :D

The "dance" is probably Dany juggling ruling Meereen, controlling her Dragons and getting the resources she needs to successfully invade Westeros

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"A Dance with Dragons" may be GRRMs way of righting the balance of Targaryen sucession. The original Dance with Dragon sort of ruled out the ruling Targaryen Queen scenario in Westeros, right?

There has been mention of a mummer's dragon in Dany's future, perhaps a male claimant will be put forth who some believe has a better claim to the Iron Throne than Dany does?

Sort of makes me wonder who the Golden Company has hidden amongst their ranks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×