messem Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Unlikely. Let's do it step by step: Massey traveling to Castle Black: minimum three weeks, could be (way) more depending on weather and Bolton forces blocking the way. Whatever happens at Castle Black after Jon's assassination: unknown Traveling to Eastwatch: About a week. Waiting for the ships to return from Hardhome or alternative transportation: unknown Sailing from Eastwatch to Braavos: three to four weeks, could be (way) more in bad weather. So, under the most positive circumstances, Massey will need at least two months to reach Braavos. Returning sellwords would need longer, traveling in larger groups. Let's assume three months for them. That puts the very first sellsword hired and shipped the very day Massey stepped of his ship in Braavos and traveling with absurdly well conditions at arriving at least five months later. With a less optimistic approach, that timespan is doubled. When Massey arrives Eastwatch the ships should be back already. Anything else I agree with, Whoever Massey is able to hire they can land somewhere between White Harbor and Widows's Watch and have a distinctly shorter travel by sea and land. BUT the biggest problem in Braavos should be finding enough sellswords. IRC Stannis was preferring the Golden Company which was currently based far south of Braavos which would need also a remarkable amount of time to reach them. --> Stannis knows that the sellswords are no use in the upcoming battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 When Massey arrives Eastwatch the ships should be back already. Anything else I agree with, Whoever Massey is able to hire they can land somewhere between White Harbor and Widows's Watch and have a distinctly shorter travel by sea and land. BUT the biggest problem in Braavos should be finding enough sellswords. IRC Stannis was preferring the Golden Company which was currently based far south of Braavos which would need also a remarkable amount of time to reach them. --> Stannis knows that the sellswords are no use in the upcoming battle. Currently, the ships are stuck with no way back. Hell, Jon and Tormund wanted to evacute Hardhome on land, based on Cotter Pyke's suggestion. Sacrificing all the ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Stannis will butcher them with few if any losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Currently, the ships are stuck with no way back. Hell, Jon and Tormund wanted to evacute Hardhome on land, based on Cotter Pyke's suggestion. Sacrificing all the ships. Forgot about that. Sorry. Are all ships there? How did the banker travel to Eastwatch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Forgot about that. Sorry. Are all ships there? How did the banker travel to Eastwatch? Yes, all of them. And the banker arrived on (some of) these ships, that's why Jon included renting them in his deal with the Iron Bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Targaryen Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I might be off base here, but this is a point that I either need clarification on, or about... Dany is not the rightful heir, as most likely being the only certain legitimate Targ. All of the R + L= J theories aside, (f)Aegon, or Jon Crow are the offspring of the crown price, hence they would be the next in line, and the heir(s) apparent. Had the mad king died before/without everything, Rheagar would've assumed the throne and his heirs after him. Furthermore (might need some clarification from buffs here), but wasn't that the whole thing with Arienne trying to rise Myrcella to the throne above Tommen, female regency/claim only exists in Dorne. Stannis will never abdicate under any scenario to any Targ, whether Dany/Jon/Aegon, he has the claim by laws of westeros and conquest, for as many "crackpot" theories are brought up around here, at what point does anyone honestly believe that he of all people, after everything he has been through and done would just simply acknowledge someone's claim who hasn't been in westeros for 16+ years? He has known about Dany the whole time even before her ascension as mother of dragons. Deanerys Targaryen IS the rightful heir to the Iron Throne of King's Landing. This is known that every child, that is not legitimized by the sovereign of the Seven Kingdoms does not have any claim to the succession line and we have no proof that Jon Snow is the bastard son of Reagar Targaryen the first. Except from that he has sworn vows of celibacy of the Night Watch, so he cannot have sexual affairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Deanerys Targaryen IS the rightful heir to the Iron Throne of King's Landing. Except that she isn't. All male relatives come before females. So the Succession goes Robert Baratheon > Stannis Baratheon > Renly Baratheon > Doran Martell > Oberyn Martell > Quentyn Martell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Except that she isn't. All male relatives come before females. So the Succession goes Robert Baratheon > Stannis Baratheon > Renly Baratheon > Doran Martell > Oberyn Martell > Quentyn Martell. Martell? Certainly not. The Succession goes Robert Baratheon > Stannis Baratheon> SHireen Baratheon > Renly Baratheon > End of Robert's heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Martell? Certainly not. The Succession goes Robert Baratheon > Stannis Baratheon> SHireen Baratheon > Renly Baratheon > End of Robert's heritage. Thats not correct, as was just stated any female claimant comes after every male claimant, therefore at the very least Renly comes before Shireen. However thats all pretty much irrelevant as Dany is obviously rightful Queen of Westeros. Go ahead, tell Drogon I'm wrong, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thats not correct, as was just stated any female claimant comes after every male claimant, therefore at the very least Renly comes before Shireen. However thats all pretty much irrelevant as Dany is obviously rightful Queen of Westeros. Go ahead, tell Drogon I'm wrong, lol. Targaryen succession. Not Baratheon succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Targaryen Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Except that she isn't. All male relatives come before females. So the Succession goes Robert Baratheon > Stannis Baratheon > Renly Baratheon > Doran Martell > Oberyn Martell > Quentyn Martell. Not so sure. King Viserys Targaryen the first prepared his daughter to ascend him to the throne. It is know that Rhaenyra Targaryen was the Princess of Dragonstone during the reign of King Viserys Targaryen the first. With that said The Princess of Dragonstone Rhaenyra Targaryen the first was the rieghtful heir to the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros during the reign of the Targaryen Dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Dany is simply rightful heir from no side. Aegon is Targ heir until proven otherwise and Stannis is from Baratheon side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Targaryen Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Martell? Certainly not. The Succession goes Robert Baratheon > Stannis Baratheon> SHireen Baratheon > Renly Baratheon > End of Robert's heritage. Stannis Baratheon has absolutely no claim to the Iron Throne if we see the matter with the view of the law. If the King/ Queen during his/her reign legitimatize a child and gives rights of the succession line to this child, then this child is the rightful heir. In our situation Joffrey Lannister was legitimized by Robert Baratheon as his rightful heir and child, so Joffrey was the heir even if he was a Lannister. With this proved Stannis has no rightful claim to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Stannis Baratheon has absolutely no claim to the Iron Throne if we see the matter with the view of the law. If the King/ Queen during his/her reign legitimatize a child and gives rights of the succession line to this child, then this child is the rightful heir. In our situation Joffrey Lannister was legitimized by Robert Baratheon as his rightful heir and child, so Joffrey was the heir even if he was a Lannister. With this proved Stannis has no rightful claim to the throne.No just no and please don't derail my thread. Dany is rightful owner of Meereen and thats it, she has no claim to IT whatsoever as of right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Targaryen Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Dany is simply rightful heir from no side. Aegon is Targ heir until proven otherwise and Stannis is from Baratheon side. My dear you seem to forget, that the Targaryen line of succession was always in tight bonds with the dragons. The powerful dragon eat the weakest. THIS is PROVEN. Aegon Targaryen the First was riding Balerion the Black Dread, the strongest Targaryen Dragon in his time, even his sisters did not oppose him the rights of the succesion. We have evidence of this also in the Dance with the Dragons the war for the succesion, Aegon Targaryen the second fed his half-sister to his dragon and became the heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Targaryen Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Targaryen succession. Not Baratheon succession. You're right with the Targaryen succesion Deanerys Targaryen the first is the rightful claimant to the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 My dear you seem to forget, that the Targaryen line of succession was always in tight bonds with the dragons. The powerful dragon eat the weakest. THIS is PROVEN. Aegon Targaryen the First was riding Balerion the Black Dread, the strongest Targaryen Dragon in his time, even his sisters did not oppose him the rights of the succesion. We have evidence of this also in the Dance with the Dragons the war for the succesion, Aegon Targaryen the second fed his half-sister to his dragon and became the heir. Not really. It doesn't work that way, Westerosi lords you see won't follow and shouldn't either since according to the laws made by her own house states every male claimant comes before a female claimant. Thus Aegon comes first. It is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Not so sure. King Viserys Targaryen the first prepared his daughter to ascend him to the throne. It is know that Rhaenyra Targaryen was the Princess of Dragonstone during the reign of King Viserys Targaryen the first. With that said The Princess of Dragonstone Rhaenyra Targaryen the first was the rieghtful heir to the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros during the reign of the Targaryen Dynasty. Except that Rhaenyra lost that war, and the subsequent peace treaty confirmed the "no girls allowed" clause Aegon II introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfer of Saragar Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Regarding the topic: stanis battle will be like it's real world counterpart, just like everything else in this series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Ice Regarding the current discussion: in Dungeroes Women we see that the Andal rule became the Targaryen rule; every male claimant comes before a famale claimant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talking Hodor Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 the fact that Stannis is so assured of victory is the most troubling thing. Whenever a character seems to have an infallible plan in the books, the one tiny thing that could possibly throw a wrench in it happens. Only if the plan is explained. The lack of explanation here indicates that he'll get the result he anticipates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.