Marvel Cinematic Universe: General Discussion

[Shryke]

Maybe im letting nostalgia cloud my memory but im pretty sure there was a time in the late 60's to the mid 80's (basically before i was born) where making movies was a god damned art. So many amazing directors making so many amazing movies, most of them either original screenplays or based on really good ideas. The 70's, in particular seemed to focus on a type of character and plot development that was amazing to watch but that would bore modern movie goers to tears after years of being conditioned to fast cuts, shallow characters, and big seat shaking explosions.

You aren't wrong in some ways Relic.

The collapse of the studio system in the 60s or so eventually lead to the rise of New Hollywood in the 70s. This is basically alot of the older films you are probably thinking of (Scorcese, Coppola, Allen, Lucas, Spielberg, etc). These were also known as the film-school brats in some writing on the subject as unlike the preceiding generation these guys has grown up with film and had often gone to film school to learn about it and so there's a different approach to the whole thing. This also came with a general rise in the the idea of the "auteur" in many things.

Anyway, the overall point is with the studio system collapsed, the film industry was slightly confused as to what to do as a business model. And for a while in the 70s this lead to them thinking the big answer was the auteur director. Give a director money, let him do his thing and the cash will roll in. And it did kinda work.

And then the auteur directors killed that themselves. They released some expensive flops and also stuff like Star Wars and Jaws and basically showed the movie industry the new way: blockbusters. Spend a bit more, keep them under control and they can make a HUGE hit and rake in money hand over fist. This also helped them fight against the rise of home media by convincing people to come see it in all it's spectacular glory.

Things keep changing after this but the blockbuster model is still basically the dominant one today. Mostly the change has killed the middle market. As movie's have become more expensive and ticket sales have gone down, the riskier middle pictures (high but not blockbuster budget and lots of creative freedom for the director) have disappeared. So we've gotten a two-tiered model. At the bottom you've got the "indie" flick. Low budget, high freedom. This is where studios experiment and win awards and keep their artists happy. Then you've got the top end with blockbusters where the budget is super high and so consequently the risk is super. And so freedom is often severely restricted as the studio demands that you appeal to as broad an audience as possible in order to insure the gamble pays off. The only way out of this is to be a big enough name (see: Nolan) that studios trust you and just let you do what you want.

So yes, the phenomenon you are talking about is somewhat real. Your assessment of it is still clouded by nostalgia I'd say and ignoring that there's still alot of creative freedom in the movie industry, but the 70s was definitely a time when the auteur director was king and he got a budget and a camera and was basically let loose to do his thing.

And, of course, cinema has always been packed to the gills with remakes and sequels and such. Moreso since the rise of the blockbuster I believe, but not as much as you think. Frankly, the 80s were worse for it in my opinion.

[Lord Hanna]

Maybe im letting nostalgia cloud my memory but im pretty sure there was a time in the late 60's to the mid 80's (basically before i was born) where making movies was a god damned art. So many amazing directors making so many amazing movies, most of them either original screenplays or based on really good ideas. The 70's, in particular seemed to focus on a type of character and plot development that was amazing to watch but that would bore modern movie goers to tears after years of being conditioned to fast cuts, shallow characters, and big seat shaking explosions.

You just sound like every older generation, who thinks everything that came out during their time, was "the best ever".

Not saying it's not normal, but what you just said is so untrue.

Many, many movies still come out with great dialogue, acting, writing, character progression, etc. You just choose to ignore that to make your point, and choose the "Action blockbusters" as an example. (shallow characters and seat shaking explosions).

[Red Tiger]

You just sound like every older generation, who thinks everything that came out during their time, was "the best ever".

Not saying it's not normal, but what you just said is so untrue.

Many, many movies still come out with great dialogue, acting, writing, character progression, etc. You just choose to ignore that to make your point, and choose the "Action blockbusters" as an example. (shallow characters and seat shaking explosions).

:agree:

Pick the best of your own generation and some of the worst of the current one.

[Relic]

You just sound like every older generation, who thinks everything that came out during their time, was "the best ever".

Oh yeah, for sure. The bestest ever, even!

Most of the movies i cherish the most in American cinema came out before i was born. Sorry that cliched theory does not apply.

Like I said, i'll start a new thread and try to explain my views on modern cinema a bit better.

Shryke, that was a very interesting post. Didn't know a bunch of that. Definitely makes sense.

[Winterfell is Burning]

Most of the movies i cherish the most in American cinema came out before i was born.

Most films in American cinema were MADE before you were born (I'm assuming you weren't born in the 40s or something like that). By simple logic, the chances of more great movies being made before you were born than after is bigger. But you're deliberately ignoring that the opposite is also true: most garbage in American film was made before you were born as well.

You're also choosing to compare the best movies made in some era to the blockbusters of today and using it as an example as things are better; you're comparing, say, A Clockwork Orange and Chinatown to Avengers and The Hunger Games, when the comparison should be made with the disaster movies of the 70's, for example, which made A LOT more money than any Kubrick or Polanski movie. If I compare, say, There Will Be Blood and No Country For Old Men with Airport, surely the 00's will seem a lot better than the 70's.

EDIT: This is a list of the highest grossing movies of every year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films#High-grossing_films_by_year

An awful lot of those are completely forgotten movies. And in the 70's you like so much, in 1974, the year that saw the release of The Conversation, Chinatown, The Godfather part II and A Woman Under the Influence, The Towering Inferno was the biggest hit.

[Lord Hanna]

Most films in American cinema were MADE before you were born (I'm assuming you weren't born in the 40s or something like that). By simple logic, the chances of more great movies being made before you were born than after is bigger. But you're deliberately ignoring that the opposite is also true: most garbage in American film was made before you were born as well.

You're also choosing to compare the best movies made in some era to the blockbusters of today and using it as an example as things are better; you're comparing, say, A Clockwork Orange and Chinatown to Avengers and The Hunger Games, when the comparison should be made with the disaster movies of the 70's, for example, which made A LOT more money than any Kubrick or Polanski movie. If I compare, say, There Will Be Blood and No Country For Old Men with Airport, surely the 00's will seem a lot better than the 70's.

EDIT: This is a list of the highest grossing movies of every year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films#High-grossing_films_by_year

An awful lot of those are completely forgotten movies. And in the 70's you like so much, in 1974, the year that saw the release of The Conversation, Chinatown, The Godfather part II and A Woman Under the Influence, The Towering Inferno was the biggest hit.

This, pretty much. Great post.

I don't see why being a blockbuster-type movie is bad anyways. People want FUN and entertainment when they go to see a movie (mostly), and a blockbuster delivers that most of the time. Doesn't mean that smart, well crafted movies aren't made/loved too.