Shouldn't it be Jon Sand instead of Jon Snow?

[PrinceHenryris]

While I personally feel that "Jon Snow" was actually named "Aemon Targaryen" by his married parents, and that Ned claimed Jon as his bastard to keep him safe, why was Jon given the surname Snow?

He was born somewhere in the vicinity of Dorne, and was allegedly fathered on a woman who later served as a wetnurse for the Daynes of Starfall. Wouldn't that make Jon Dornish, and therefore a Sand?

I know Ned did take him North, but but even though just about everyone in the Vale knows who her father is, Mya is still called Mya Stone. Then again, Obara is a Sand, even though her mother was based Oldtown.

However, wouldn't it have been safer for the child if Ned had admitted to a Sand rather than a Snow?

[MasterJack]

Now I feel very stupid.

[Mad Monkey]

You raise a good point here! I always assumed -- albeit without much evidence -- that acknowledged bastards got the names from their noble parent, not from the place where they were born. Mya is unacknowledged (unlike Edric Storm) but Obara is likely acknowledged since her father actually went and got her.

(I feel like the situation with Alayne might help clarify this; does anyone remember if we get more info on Petyr's cover story? He just shows up with her all of a sudden, after having spent much of his time in KL working for the government, so does that mean that she wasn't supposed to have been born in the Vale? If that's the case, then this validates my theory; any Vale lord's bastard may be called Stone, even if the child was born in King's Landing.)

[Catastrophe]

He's a Snow because he's supposedly Ned's son. There's no hard and fast rule for bastard naming conventions, but bastards usually tend to be named after their father rather than their mother, unless their father is unknown. The place where they're born doesn't make a difference at all.

Calling him Jon Sand would only make sense on the off chance that Jon turns out to be Ned and Ashara's son after all*, but even then, calling him Jon Snow would still make more sense. If R + L = J turns out to be true, then it could be argued that he should be called Jon Waters**. However, Jon Snow would still be a perfectly valid name for him, since his mother was a Stark and he was raised by her side of the family.

*I can believe that it's possible that Ned and Ashara had a child, even if R + L = J seems a lot more likely. I can't believe that Ned would've had an affair with one of Ashara's random servants, it's just too out-of-character for him. I think Robert was just about the only person who believed that Jon was Wylla's son, and he had a penchant for being wrong about nearly everything.

**I firmly hold to the idea that even if R + L = J is true, Jon would still be a bastard. Even if Rhaegar and Lyanna did get married- and I don't think there's any real evidence that they did- no one would consider their marriage to be legally binding. The laws have changed since the time of Aegon the Conquerer.

[Matoro]

Then again, Obara is a Sand, even though her mother was based Oldtown.

Especially. Exact birth location doesen't matter anything. Bastard surnames are customs. If a bastard grows up in the North with northern parents and northern siblings, he'll be Snow, since bastards are Snows in the North.

[Petite Psycophant]

I've been wondering the same thing actually but then I figured that it's 'cause of what most people here said; Jon's mother is supposed to be a mystery, Ned acknowledged him as his and took him with him to Winterfell where he grew up and it seems as though the children indeed take the name of the place where their fathers are from.

I think that a lot of the bastards introduced in the books have mothers that come from the same region as they fathers did and a lot of the fathers happen to reside in that region as well. So I understand why a lot of people, including me, would think the bastards are named after the region they're born in.

[lojzelote]

I think that a parent may give his bastard whatever name he wishes as long as it's not a name of a noble house; see Tyrion Tanner and Shiera Seastar.

If Ned wished so, he could have called him Jon Waters or Jon Flowers, and nobody would raise a stink, they would just think it was a peculiar choice on Ned's part, because the custom (but not a law of any kind) is to name the "natural" children after a natural thing common in the region they will likely live in, as in there is plenty of snow in the North, plenty of sand in Dorne, plenty of rivers in the Riverlands etc. Really, from this POV it makes zero sense to name him Jon Sand; he planned on taking him North and raising him in Winterfell; why give him a name which would identify him as a Dornishman if he meant for him to become a Northman?

[LordStoneheart]

GRRM said Eddard named Jon so he had reason to call him Snow. Seems like bastard children just get named for wherever they're raised, not the exact place they're born.

R + L = J turns out to be true, then it could be argued that he should be called Jon Waters**.

From snow to waters... Jon is going to melt... and that's the dream of spring.

[lojzelote]

GRRM said Eddard named Jon so he had reason to call him Snow. Seems like bastard children just get named for wherever they're raised, not the exact place they're born.

From snow to waters... Jon is going to melt... and that's the dream of spring.

It makes sense; ice + fire = water(s) :dunno: :cool4:

[TalalOfDorne]

I guess its about where youre from, not where youre born.

[King of Winters]

Maybe it's because his "father" is from the North and Ned thought it safer to call him "Snow" instead of "Sand" as people might draw connections to Jon's age and bastard name to Lyanna giving birth in Dorne, as it's well known that she stayed in Dorne for the entire Rebellion.

[ckal9]

While I personally feel that "Jon Snow" was actually named "Aemon Targaryen" by his married parents,

My lord the amount of assumptions in one half of a sentence haha.

[Sordelor]

Thanks to that some lords think he is the fisherman's son.

[ckal9]

It makes sense; ice + fire = water(s) :dunno: :cool4:

Haha oh no what have you started? Brace yourself, a new wave of RLJ threads are coming.

[danm_999]

While I personally feel that "Jon Snow" was actually named "Aemon Targaryen" by his married parents, and that Ned claimed Jon as his bastard to keep him safe, why was Jon given the surname Snow?

If you believe R+L=J, can you not imagine some reasons why Ned would like to obfuscate exactly where Jon was born?

[Thendel]

Bastards are most commonly named for the place they're raised, not where they were born. For instance, Edric Storm was conceived and most likely born at Brightwater Keep deep in the Reach (and his father's seat was in the Crownlands), but he was soon thereafter given up to be raised at Storm's End, hence he is called Storm.

With that in mind, Jon should rightfully be called Snow.

[Fanless Mace]

I'm not impressed by the argument that we should question this surname. Ned raised Jon as his own son, and a motherless child, in the North. Either Jon is really Ned's bastard and that explains the name perfectly OR R+L=J and Ned is trying to hide Jon's true identity by pretending Jon is Ned's own spawn. So he's gonna be called a Snow either way.

[Fanless Mace]

Besides, nobody likes sand in their snow...makes for some rough downhill patches.

[ckal9]

I'm not impressed by the argument that we should question this surname. Ned raised Jon as his own son, and a motherless child, in the North. Either Jon is really Ned's bastard and that explains the name perfectly OR R+L=J and Ned is trying to hide Jon's true identity by pretending Jon is Ned's own spawn. So he's gonna be called a Snow either way.

Also I'm pretty sure all the bastards we know have their surname based on the region they grew up in.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

There's no wrong way to name a bastard. The only reason they apparently use the nine common bastard surnames is to signal noble parentage. But beyond that there's no real need for sticking to the convention, and certainly no need for geographic sticklerism.

Personally, I think they could all spend a little time trying to harder on these bastard names. Maybe expand out of the set of nine surnames that signals noble parentage to 20 or so, for variety's sake. Especially the Iron Islanders- Pyke? Come on. Gilly beats them all to hell twice over on her first by choosing 'Aemon Battleborn' or Aemon 'Steelsong' for Mance and Dalla's child, a little Jon Snow writ anew, a secret prince heading for a life of fake bastardy. With a much cooler name.