The marriage of Daenerys and Maron Martell: How does it fit in the Blackfyre Rebellion?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Edit: The timeline we made as an answer to my questions can be found in this post. If you feel that there are things missing, please mention it :)

Daenerys Targaryen, younger sister of Daeron II, was married to Prince Maron Martell, ruling Prince of Dorne and Lord of Sunspear, even though she was in love with Daemon Blackfyre, her bastard, though legitimized, half-brother.

Daenerys was born long after her brother, who at that point, already had a son of his own, Baelor Breakspear, who was born in 169 AC.

Baelor is specifically mentioned, which makes me conclude that Aerys (the next son) wasn't born yet. We know Maekar was born in between 172 AC and 176 AC (so make it 174 AC, since it's in the middle). Both Aerys and Rhaegel would have to be born either in or in between of 170 AC and 173 AC. Keeping it all in the middle, We'd get Baelor in 169 AC, Aerys in 170/171 AC, Rhaegel in 172/173 AC, Maekar in 174 AC.

This would put Daenerys' birth year in 170 AC.

Now on to the Blackyre Rebellion. It's a bit fuzzy to figure out when exactly it took place, and then especially the last battle, the Redgrass Field. With the Dunk and Egg stories in mind, The Hedge Knight is said to take place in 208 AC. About a year has passed in between The Hedge Knight and The Sworn Sword, so TSS would take place in 209 AC. In TSS, Ser Eustace tells us his sons died on the Redgrass Field 15 years prior, which would place the Redgrass Field in 194 AC. The Wiki, however, disagrees with me here, depending on which page I look at. The wiki is convinced the Redgrass Field took place in 196 AC, and I have no idea how they got there, and who put it up there.

Depending on the Redgrass Field and the year it took place, Daemon Blackfyre was born in either 168 AC or 170 AC.

With the Redgrass Field in 194 AC, Daenerys would be about 24 years old.

However, the Redgrass Field would hardly be the only event in the Blackfyre Rebellion. It wouldn't be called a Rebellion otherwise. It most likely would have lasted at least 1 year, perhaps 2, which would make Daenerys 23 or 22 respectively.

Why am I going on and on about the age of Daenerys? I am wondering, not only when the Redgrass Field took place, but also when Daenerys and Maron got married. The wiki at some pages mentions this happened in 197 AC (a year after the Redgrass Field, if it took place in 196 AC). However, this information has absolutely no source, no matter which page it is on I look at. Which made me think it was just someones interpretation and said person put it on the wiki.

Daenerys marrying Maron after the Redgrass Rebellion would be weird, IMHO, since it would make Daenerys rather old to get married, especially seeing as how all the other Targaryen Princesses we know of married very young (meaning at 14/15).

All of this brought me to another thought. What if Daemon's last straw of rebelling was Daenerys' marriage/betrothal, which then took place before the war started?

Daemon

Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both

loved Shiera Seastar, and the Seven Kingdoms bled.

Barristan Selmy

Daeron surrounded himself with maesters, septons, and singers. Always there were women wispering in his ear, and his court was full of Dornishmen. how not, when he had taken a Dornishwoman into his bed, and sold his own sweet sister to the Prince of Dorne, though it was Daemon that she loved?

Ser Eustace

Especially Eustace's quote seems to indicate I am correct about Daenerys and Maron marrying before the Blackfyre Rebellion started. What Barristan described as denied her could also mean when she was married to another.

What I am asking her is an evaluation:

(1) Daenerys and Maron marrying before the Blackfyre Rebellion, when Daenerys is about 20, which would be in 190 AC, which would give Daemon time to gather forced and then rebel for about two years, with the Rebellion ending in 194 AC.

(2) The Redgrass Field. When did it take place? Am I correct to say it was 194 AC, and not 196 AC?

[Anath]

Daenerys being sold to Dorne might also mean her betrothal. Betrothal was taken very seriously in Westeros and by finalizing the negotiations. Daeron had basically sold Daenerys almost as certainly as if the wedding had already taken place. Either way, Daenerys seems to be quite old for a Westerosi noble bride - and for a Targaryen bride, she's basically an old crow.

Do we have source about any of the dates the wiki gives about the rebellion?

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

The Citadel puts the date at 196:

"The Blackfyre Rebellion ended in the battle of the Redgrass Field in 196 (TSS: 90)"

i'm not sure on the math.

[CosimaistheHottest]

What I am asking her is an evaluation:

(1) Daenerys and Maron marrying before the Blackfyre Rebellion, when Daenerys is about 20, which would be in 190 AC, which would give Daemon time to gather forced and then rebel for about two years, with the Rebellion ending in 194 AC.

(2) The Redgrass Field. When did it take place? Am I correct to say it was 194 AC, and not 196 AC?

Is that what the timeline says?

Because it really might actually be the case that the wiki timeline is on point and that Daenerys was older than usual. Just because it's not usually the case doesn't mean it can't happen. There wasn't really a big need for her to get married. I mean Daeron already had 4 sons and one daughter of his own or its the case of waiting for a really good offer for his sister. Tywin Lannister refused to give Cersei's hand to anyone who asked because he wanted her to marry royally, either Rhaegar in the event of Elia's death which means that he may have been waiting a long time or Viserys who is about 10 years younger than Cersei, which would put Cersei's marrying age at 25 or older.

EDITED: Let's also not forget the plan that the Princess of Dorne and maybe Joanna Lannister cooked up for Elia and Jaime. She would have been a good 7 to 8 years older than Jaime, which would put her age at about 24 or 25 maybe a little younger when they got married.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Well, several sources say the Sworn Sword takes place in 209 AC (about a year after the Hedge Knight, which is assumed by most people to have taken place in 208 AC).

Ser Eustace mentions his sons died 15 years prior on the Redgrass Field, and 209 - 15 = 194 AC.

I have no idea how the wiki and the Citadel got to 196 AC. That would make Daenerys even older.

I guess it all depends on when The Sworn Sword takes place. Is that fleshed out anywhere?

[CosimaistheHottest]

The Citadel seems to have gotten the date from The Sworn Sword., but they may have also checked it with Martin to make sure the year is correct. Sometimes years don't always add up when you are really paying attention.

[Anath]

Is is possible that Ser Eustace wasn't doing math but instead was going for the closest approximate date? I mean, with the passing of time, it's easier to say that something happened 20 years ago instead of counting back the actual 18 or 21 years that passed.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Is is possible that Ser Eustace wasn't doing math but instead was going for the closest approximate date? I mean, with the passing of time, it's easier to say that something happened 20 years ago instead of counting back the actual 18 or 21 years that passed.

:agree:

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So you guys think the 196 AC came from GRRM via the Citadel? Which would either make TSS take place in 211 AC (3 missing years between THK and TSS?) Or Eustace simply simplified his tale? Ok.

But Daeron did have good cause to marry Daenerys to Dorne, and not wait all too long after she reached the right age. His own father had attempted another (sort of) conquest, using a wooden dragon, IIRC. And that after the peace-pact which involved Myriah marrying Daeron. I could see it happen that the dornish would feel slighted and be angered by that wooden dragon event. Aegon VI broke the peace. When Daerons reign started, he might not have deemed Daenerys fit for marriage, but he surely couldn't have waited too long.

[CosimaistheHottest]

But didn't the Sworn Sword take place in 211, which would be about right with the 15 years and being in 196.

The Hedge Knight took place in 208/209. The Great Spring Sickness happened in 209 not long after the Hedge Knight takes place killing King Daeron II and Baelor's heirs. So if the Hedge Knight takes place around that time and the Sworn Sword takes place a year and a half later. Then it's possible that it would be early 211, which means 15 years earlier would be 196 making the dates correct.

Always possible that she was older than usual.

[Anath]

I never got to know the details of the wooden dragons attack. Can someone expain it to me? What did Aegon do with them?

[CosimaistheHottest]

I never got to know the details of the wooden dragons attack. Can someone expain it to me? What did Aegon do with them?

Like many other Targaryen kings, Aegon was obsessed with regaining dragons for his house. Instead of trying to resurrect the dead dragons of his ancestors, Aegon tried to build new ones out of wood and iron, which he used to try and conquer Dorne. However, the attempt failed and his dragons burned.^[5][6]

[Anath]

Like many other Targaryen kings, Aegon was obsessed with regaining dragons for his house. Instead of trying to resurrect the dead dragons of his ancestors, Aegon tried to build new ones out of wood and iron, which he used to try and conquer Dorne. However, the attempt failed and his dragons burned.^[5][6]

Yeah, I knew that. I simply can't wrap my mind around the idea of transporting a dragon size of wood and iron mass all the way through Dorne (without said mass having helpful wings) and actually trying to use them to conquer anything. What was the mechanism that was expected to work? I honestly cannot imagine it.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Yeah, I knew that. I simply can't wrap my mind around the idea of transporting a dragon size of wood and iron mass all the way through Dorne (without said mass having helpful wings) and actually trying to use them to conquer anything. What was the mechanism that was expected to work? I honestly cannot imagine it.

IDK. Haha.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Yeah, I knew that. I simply can't wrap my mind around the idea of transporting a dragon size of wood and iron mass all the way through Dorne (without said mass having helpful wings) and actually trying to use them to conquer anything. What was the mechanism that was expected to work? I honestly cannot imagine it.

You're overthinking it, they would have been wheeled siege towers or perhaps super large enclosed chariots...either is a terrible idea when fighting in Dorne...

I think that the first danerys betrothal even though dareon knew her and daemon were in love was all part of the build up to the rebellion.

I think we'll find that Daemon should have been king but like rhanerya and Aegon there were others pushing their own agenda.

[CosimaistheHottest]

You're overthinking it, they would have been wheeled siege towers or perhaps super large enclosed chariots...either is a terrible idea when fighting in Dorne...

I think that the first danerys betrothal even though dareon knew her and daemon were in love was all part of the build up to the rebellion.

I think we'll find that Daemon should have been king but like rhanerya and Aegon there were others pushing their own agenda.

Daeron could do anything he wanted with Daenerys. He was head of her family and she had to marry where he told.

Let's not forget that even though Daenerys and Daemon were in love. He was also very much married with a crapload of kids.

I also don't know how Daemon should have been king. He was a bastard and he stayed a bastard until Aegon IV was on his deathbed. As soon as Viserys II became King, it was probably pretty much acknowledged that Daeron would one day become King.

[The Dragon has three heads]

I'm sure there was a reason daemon wanted to take the throne, pure vengeance, the blessing of his father or proof that daeron was also a bastard.

[Anath]

I think we'll find that Daemon should have been king but like rhanerya and Aegon there were others pushing their own agenda.

Actually, it looks like GRRM is building the setup for the exact opposite. After writing The Sword Sword, he decided to make Blackfyre (Daemon's main excuse for wanting the throne because his side claimed it was reserved for kings only) not the sword reserved for kings only. He included the detail about Aenys giving it to Maegor with the exactly same words Maekar used to explain Aegon's gift of the sword to Daemon.

And what proof could Daemon have? He wasn't around when Daeron was born. And if he had proof, why didn't he show it, instead of relying on rumours to sully the reputation of a woman who was almost a septa when his own mother was the one who undoubtedly carried out an affair with a man she wasn't married to?

[The Dragon has three heads]

Actually, it looks like GRRM is building the setup for the exact opposite. After writing The Sword Sword, he decided to make Blackfyre (Daemon's main excuse for wanting the throne because his side claimed it was reserved for kings only) not the sword reserved for kings only. He included the detail about Aenys giving it to Maegor with the exactly same words Maekar used to explain Aegon's gift of the sword to Daemon.

And what proof could Daemon have? He wasn't around when Daeron was born. And if he had proof, why didn't he show it, instead of relying on rumours to sully the reputation of a woman who was almost a septa when his own mother was the one who undoubtedly carried out an affair with a man she wasn't married to?

Pfft.

Loyalist.

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

Pfft.

Loyalist.

The women and men of the red dragon call themselves the loyalists, but we who chose the black dragon are just as loyal. When the battle's done, the victors will be hailed as loyalists, while those who are defeated will be known forevermore as usurpers. That will be the fate of Dany and the rest of her Targaryen ancestors up to Daeron the Falseborn, when the Golden Company puts Aegon on the Iron Throne.