The marriage of Daenerys and Maron Martell: How does it fit in the Blackfyre Rebellion?

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

*snip*

What I am asking her is an evaluation:

(1) Daenerys and Maron marrying before the Blackfyre Rebellion, when Daenerys is about 20, which would be in 190 AC, which would give Daemon time to gather forced and then rebel for about two years, with the Rebellion ending in 194 AC.

(2) The Redgrass Field. When did it take place? Am I correct to say it was 194 AC, and not 196 AC?

Idk the dates are really fuzzy...I've tried to figure it out

I’m of the opinion only a little over 1.5 years elapses between THK and TSS, 13 + 1.5 = 14.5 years after the Battle of Redgrass Field not the nice round 15 years were given in TSS, I assume the tournament in King’s Landing 16 years prior to THK was held prior shortly prior to the Rebellion which began 15 years prior to THK, however I think the Rebellion must of lasted at least 2 years because Daemon had time to mint his own coin, I think this places the Battle of RGF at around 13 years prior to THK, 13 +1.5 = 14.5. This could explain how the Citadel came up w/ the date of 196.

Below is nearly every reference to the term “year” form all three of the Dunk and Egg novellas. This is by no means the most precise method of dating but it does provide a number of reference points to try and figure out the date of the Blackfyre rebellion. I’ve put the years in descending order in each of the individual books (however I also have a document that tries to arrange all of the dates chronologically, I could post it if people would prefer that format)

The Hedge Kinght:

There was a great melee in Maidenpool the year prior to THK:

The fourth pavilion was sewn together from diamond-shaped pieces of cloth, alternating red and white. Dunk did not know the colors, but Egg said they belonged to a knight from the Vale of Arryn named Ser Humfrey Hardyng. “He won a great melee at Maidenpool last year, ser, and overthrew Ser Donnel of Duskendale and the Lords Arryn and Royce in the lists.”

THK – 1 = tournament at Maidenpool

Dunk was in Lannisport a year prior to the events in THK:

He knew how to kiss. A tavern girl had showed him one night in Lannisport, a year ago, but she’d been so short she had to sit on the table to reach his lips. The memory made his ears burn. What a great fool he was. It was jousting he should be thinking about, not kissing.

THK – 1 = Dunk and Arlan are in Lannisport

Dunk claims Arlan served house Dondarrion 3 years prior to the events in THK:

Dunk thought a moment. “There was a pavilion flying the banner of House Dondarrion? The black, with purple lightning?”

“That would be Ser Manfred, of that House.” “Ser Arlan served his lord father in Dorne, three years past. Ser Manfred might remember me.”

THK – 3 = Dunk and Arlan are in the dornish marches

Dunk also claims he and Arlan had spent half a year in service to Lord Florent 3 years past:

Is it me she smiles at, or the coins? Dunk had never been with a girl, and they made him nervous. Once, three years past, when the old man’s purse was full after half a year in the service of blind Lord Florent,

THK – 3 = Dunk and Arlan had just served Lord Florent for half a year

Otho Bracken kills Quentyn Blackwood in a tournament mishap in King’s Landing 3 years prior to THK:

The brown tent beneath red stallion could only belong to Ser Otho Bracken, who was called the Brute of Bracken since slaying Lord Quentyn Blackwood three years past during a tourney at King’s Landing. Dunk heard that Ser Otho struck so hard with the blunted longaxe that he stove in the visor of Lord Blackwood’s helm and the face beneath it.

THK – 3 = tournament in King’s Landing

Dunk claims he and Arlan served Leo Tyrell at Highgarden for a year before Egg was born, [of course at this point Dunk doesn’t know when Egg was born]:

Beside the orange pavilions stood one of deep- dyed green, much larger. The golden rose of Highgarden flapped above it, and the saffie device was emblazoned on the great green shield outside the door. “That’s Leo Tyrell, Lord of Highgarden,” said Egg.

“I knew that,” said Dunk, irritated. “The old man and I served at Highgarden before you were ever born.” He hardly remembered that year himself, but Ser Arlan had often spoken of Leo Longthorn, as he was sometimes called; a peerless jouster, for all the silver in his hair. “That must be Lord Leo beside the tent, the slender greybeard in green and gold.”

THK – between 8-9 = Arlan and Dunk’s serve at Highgarden, [this was likely after the tournament at storm’s end (below) seeing as Dunk wasn’t witness to Ser Arlan’s tilt w/ Baelor Breakspear, nevertheless at this time Dunk thinks egg is a boy of 8].

Baelor places his tilt w/ Ser Arlan, at Strom’s End, nine years prior to THK:

“It was nine years past, at Storm’s End. Lord Baratheon held a hastilude to celebrate the birth of a grandson. The lots made Ser Arlan my opponent in the first tilt. We broke four lances before I finally unhorsed him.

We can assume that this tournament predated Dunk’s relationship w/ Arlan because Dunk would have first hand knowledge of the event if he was already Arlan’s squire at the time. I think it’s safe to assume Arlan found Dunk shortly after the tournament at Storm’s End.

THK – 9 = the Tournament at Strom’s End marking the birth of a Baratheon and Ser Arlan’s last tournament.

Ser Arlan participated in a tournament in King’s Landing 16 years prior to THK:

“I remember Ser Arlan of Pennytree,” the man in the high seat said quietly. “He never won a tourney that I know, but he never shamed himself either. At King’s Landing sixteen years ago, he overthrew Lord Stokeworth and the Bastard of Harrenhal in the melee, and many years before at Lannisport he unhorsed the Grey Lion himself. The lion was not so grey then, to be sure.”

THK – 16 = tournament in King’s Landing

Dunk’s age is placed between 16/17 at the start of THK:

Dunk was hugely tall for his age, a shambling, shaggy, big-boned boy of sixteen or seventeen years (no one was quite certain which) who stood closer to seven feet than to six, and had only just begun to fill out his frame

THK – 16-17 = Dunk is born.

Daeron Targaryen, Maekar’s first son is born is said to be 18:

“Daeron has done this before,” another replied. Plummer was standing so as to block Dunk’s view of the speaker. “You should never have com- manded him to enter the lists. He belongs on a tourney field no more than Aerys does, or Rhaegel.”

“By which you mean he’d sooner ride a whore than a horse,” the first man said. Thickly built and powerful, the prince—he was surely a prince— wore a leather brigandine covered with silver studs beneath a heavy black cloak trimmed with ermine. Pox scars marked his cheeks, only partly concealed by his silvery beard. “I do not need to be reminded of my son’s failings, brother. He has only eighteen years. He can change. He will change, gods be damned, or I swear I’ll see him dead.”

THK – 18 = Daeron’s birth.

Between THK and TSS the following events occur:

§ King Daeron Targaryen dies after a 25 year reign:

… the late King Daeron the Good, the Second of His Name, who’d sat the Iron Throne for five-and-twenty years until the Great Spring Sickness took him off.

§ Spring ends:

“In an iron cage at the crossroads, two dead men were rotting in the summer sun.”

“’Kingslanders have a certain way of speaking.’ The septon took a gulp of wine, sloshed it about his mouth, swallowed, and sighed with pleasure. ‘I have served there many years, attending our High Septon in the Great Sept of Baelor.’ He sighed. ‘You would not know the city since the spring. The fires changed it. A quarter of the houses gone, and another quarter empty. The rats are gone as well. That is the queerest thing. I never thought to see a city without rats.’…

…They say the spring was bad in Lannisport and worse in Oldtown, but in King’s Landing it cut down four of ten.”

§ The Great Spring Sickness runs it’s course:

…They say the spring was bad in Lannisport and worse in Oldtown, but in King’s Landing it cut down four of ten. Neither young nor old were spared, nor rich nor poor, nor great nor humble. Our good High Septon was taken, the gods’ own voice on earth, with a third of the Most Devout and near all our silent sisters. His Grace King Daeron, sweet Matarys and bold Valarr, the Hand . . . oh, it was a dreadful time. By the end, half the city was praying to the Stranger.” He had another drink. “And where were you, ser?”

§ Ser Eustace’s daughter was 7 at the conclusion of the rebellion and 20 when she died likely during the spring sickness:

… His voice was bitter. “I bought my head back with my daughter’s life. Alysanne was seven when they took her off to King’s Landing and twenty when she died, a silent sister.

§ The drought begins and is entering it’s second year by the start of TSS

It’s raining in THK.

With the drought entering its second year, most lords had become less tolerant of poaching, and they hadn’t been very tolerant to begin with. ~TSS

§ The drought seems to be ending by the end of TSS, it’s also raining at the start of TMK:

“That?” The maester listened. “That’s just rain.”

He did not see her till the day they took their leave.

“This is folly, ser,” Septon Sefton complained, as Dunk limped heavily across the yard, swinging his splinted foot and leaning on a crutch. “Maester Cerrick says you are not half healed as yet, and this rain . . . you’re like to catch a chill, if you do not drown again. At least wait for the rain to stop.”

“That may be years.” Dunk was grateful to the fat septon, who had visited him near every day . . . to pray for him, ostensibly, though more time seemed to be taken up with tales and gossip. He would miss his loose and lively tongue and cheerful company, but that changed nothing. “I need to go.”

The rain was lashing down around them, a thousand cold gray whips upon his back. His cloak was already sodden. It was the white wool cloak Ser Eustace had given him, with the green-and-gold- checkered border. The old knight had pressed it on him once again, as a parting gift. “For your courage and leal service, ser,” he said. The brooch that pinned the cloak at his shoulder was a gift as well; an ivory spider brooch with silver legs. Clusters of crushed garnets made spots upon its back. ~TSS

A light summer rain was falling as Dunk and Egg took their leave of Stoney Sept. ~TMK

[thus the drought seems to have lasted less than 2 years]

§ Dunk and Egg spend 1.5 years traveling from Ashford to Dorne via the Prince’s Pass, they spend a year in Dorne, before going to Oldtown:

They had climbed the Prince’s Pass together and crossed the deep sands of Dorne, both red and white. A poleboat had taken them down the Greenblood to the Planky Town, where they took passage for Oldtown on the galleas White Lady. ~TSS

“Not all Dornishmen are small, m’lady.” Dunk could feel her fingers through the silk. Her hand was freckled, too.I’ll bet she’s freckled all over. His mouth was oddly dry. “I spent a year in Dorne.” ~TSS

“And where were you, ser?”

“In Dorne,” said Dunk.

“Thank the Mother for her mercy, then.” The Great Spring Sickness had never come to Dorne, perhaps because the Dornish had closed their borders and their ports, as had the Arryns of the Vale, who had also been spared. ~TSS

The Sworn Sword:

Half a year before TSS Dunk & Egg are in Oldtown where dunk is measured by Aemon:

Egg’s brother Aemon had measured him in Oldtown and found he lacked an inch of seven feet, but that was half a year ago.

TSS – .5 = Dunk and Egg in Oldtown

A yaer and half before TSS Aerys names Bloodraven his Hand Maekar departs to summerhall, [it’s safe to assume this is at the same time that Daeron dies and Aerys ascends]:

Dunk touched his swollen lip. “You don’t need to sound so pleased about it.”No one ever clouted your father in the ear, though. Maybe that’s why Prince Maekar is the way he is. “When the king named Lord Bloodraven his Hand, your lord father refused to be part of his council and departed King’s Landing for his own seat,” he reminded Egg. “He has been at Summerhall for a year, and half of another. What do you call that, if not sulking?”

TSS – 1.5 = Aerys ascends, Bloodraven’s named Hand, and Maekar pouts

By TSS Egg had served Dunk for a year and half [and it was several days after the Ashford tournament the Egg began his service as Dunk’s squire]:

Egg had served Dunk for a good year and a half, though some days it seemed like twenty.

TSS – 1.5 = Ashford Tournment.

In TSS Dunk claims Ser Arlan died 2 years prior [Dunk is probably rounding up to the nearest whole year]

“Ser Arlan’s two years dead,” Dunk said

TSS – 2 = Ashford Tournament.

Battle of Redgrass Field and the end of the 1^st Blackfyre rebellion

“They had died on the Redgrass Field fifteen years ago, at the end of the Blackfyre Rebellion.”

“The black dragon.”You swore your sword to a traitor, lunk. You ate a traitor’s bread and slept beneath a rebel’s roof. “M’lady,” he said, groping, “the black dragon . . . that was fifteen years ago. This is now, and there’s a drought. Even if he was a rebel once, Ser Eustace still needs water.”

TSS – 15 = Blackfyre Rebellion/The Battle of Redgrass Field.

In TSS Dunk claims to be 18/19:

“Near twenty, if it please m’lady.” Dunk liked the ring of twenty, though most like he was a year younger, maybe two. No one knew for certain, least of all him.

TSS – 18/19 = Dunk’s birth

In TSS Dunk thinks he was no more than 3-4 during the Blackfyre rebellion:

“This old master of yours, the knight of Pennytree . . . did he fight in the Blackfyre Rebellion?”

“He did, m’lord. Before he took me on.” Dunk had been no more than three or four at the time, running half naked through the alleys of Flea Bottom, more animal than boy.

TSS – 18/19 = Dunk’s birth + 3/4 = Blackfyre Rebellion

Between TSS and TMK the Following events occur:

§ The ailing Lord Bracken seems to have died and Otho Bracken has ascended to the title Lord Bracken or he is in the very least calling the shots at Stone Hedge:

“Lord Bracken is dying slowly on the Trident, and his eldest son perished in the spring. That means Ser Otho must succeed. The Blackwoods will never stomach the Brute of Bracken as a neighbor. It will mean war.” ~ Septon Sefton of Cold Moat, Dunk TSS

"Just do your part as promised, and let me concern myself with that. Once we have Butterwell's gold and the swords of House Frey, Harrenhal will follow, then the Brackens. Otho knows he cannot hope to stand ..." ~ Gormon Peake and Black Tom Heddle, Dunk TMK

§ Dunk’s ankle appears to have healed:

“Maester Cerrick says you are not half healed as yet, and this rain . . . you’re like to catch a chill, if you do not drown again. At least wait for the rain to stop.” ~TSS

no mention of the ankle in TMK.

§ Dunk and Egg travel from Coldmoat in the Reach to Stoney Sept in the Riverlands:

“A light summer rain was falling as Dunk and Egg took their leave of Stoney Sept.” ~ Dunk TMK

The Mystery Knight

6 years prior to the events of TMK Dunk was in King’s Landing as was Bloodraven.

Six years ago in King’s Landing, Dunk had seen him with his own two eyes, as he rode a pale horse up the Street of Steel with fifty Raven’s Teeth behind him.

TMK – 6 = Dunk and Bloodraven in King’s Landing

Dunk refers to Egg as a boy of 11 in TMK.

Egg flushed, and for half a heartbeat, Dunk feared the boy might talk back. Instead he settled for a sullen look, seething as only a boy of eleven years can seethe.

TMK – 11 = Egg is born

Dunk dates the Blackfyre Rebellion 16 years prior to the events chronicled in TMK.

Sixteen years ago, a bastard son of King Aegon IV named Daemon Blackfyre had risen in revolt against his trueborn brother.

It was sixteen years ago. The Pretender died, and those who followed him were exiled or forgiven. Anyway, it has nought to do with me.

"What, all of them?" Dunk shook his head. "If it was true, that was a long time ago. The Black Dragon's dead, and those who fought with him are fled or pardoned. And it's not true. Lord Butterwell's sons fought on both sides."

"That makes him half a traitor, ser."

"Sixteen years ago."

TMK – 16 = Blackfyre rebellion

We learn Whitewalls was raised by Lord Butterwell’s grandsire 40 years prior:

Whitewalls was almost new as castles went, having been raised a mere forty years ago by the grandsire of its present lord.

TMK – 40 = Completion of Whitewalls by grandpa Butterwell who had also been Hand once.

We also learn that Lord Butterwell had been on Aegon the Unworthy’s small council and Daeron had named him Hand shortly before the Blackfyre rebellion:

"On the far side of the lake, ser. Lord Butterwell was the master of coin when King Aegon sat the Iron Throne. King Daeron made him Hand, but not for long. His arms are undy green and white and yellow, ser." Egg loved showing off his heraldry.

This means Lord Butterwell had a place of influence as far back as Aegon’s reign meaning over 25 years prior (see below: Daeron’s reign is said to encompass 25 years and he has recently passed).

Dunk places Lord Butterwell’s age at fifty:

No sooner had he spoken than Ambrose Butterwell made his entrance, to a fanfare of trumpets from the minstrel's gallery. Dunk shoved to his feet with the rest as Butterwell escorted his new bride down a patterned Myrish carpet to the dais, arm in arm. The girl was fifteen and freshly flowered, her lord husband fifty and freshly widowed.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

snp

:bowdown: I cannot imagine how long this must have taken you. You deserve a round of applause - No, multiple rounds.

Really. Thank you so much. I'll try to put this in chronological order this week, and I'll post it then. At the moment, I am a bit busy with studying for an upcomming exam, but I need a break a few times a day, and in those little time periods, I should be able to get this done :)

Really, Thank you so much. It's wonderful of you :D

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

:bowdown: I cannot imagine how long this must have taken you. You deserve a round of applause - No, multiple rounds.

Really. Thank you so much. I'll try to put this in chronological order this week, and I'll post it then. At the moment, I am a bit busy with studying for an upcomming exam, but I need a break a few times a day, and in those little time periods, I should be able to get this done :)

Really, Thank you so much. It's wonderful of you :D

aww thanks. good luck w/ your exam :)

[Anath]

aww thanks. good luck w/ your exam :)

Another poster in awe here.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

aww thanks. good luck w/ your exam :)

Thank you. Done with studying for today, since it's almost midnight here. So I thought I'd give your enourmous list a look, and it was almost all practically chronological already.

The Hedge Knight takes place in 209 AC. That is known. I worked from there. I also added some Blackfyre information (Daemon was 26 when he died, his two eldest sons 12. He received Blackfyre when he was 12 etc.) to get more of an idea. Daemon II mentions his age and his brother's age, and I put those in as well. I came up with this:

±162 AC: Lord Butterwell is born

170 AC: Baelor Breakspear is born to Daeron II and Myriah Martell

Daemon Blackfyre is born to Aegon IV and Daena Targaryen

172 AC: Whitewalls is completed

Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers is born to Aegon IV and Barba Bracken

175 AC: Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers is born to Aegon IV and Melissa Blackwood

182 AC: Daemon Blackfyre receives the sword Blackfyre from Aegon IV, his father

184 AC: Aemon and Aegon Blackfyre are born to Daemon Blackfyre and an unknown wife

191 AC: Daeron the Drunken is born to Maekar Targaryen and an unknown wife

192/193 AC: Dunk is born

193 AC: Tourney in KL

196 AC: Daemon II Blackfyre dreams of his twin brothers death. They laugh at him

Aemon and Aegon Blackfyre are 12 years old

Daemon Blackfyre is 26 years old

The Blackfyre Rebellion ended

197 AC: Ser Eustace’s daughter Alysanne arrives as a hostage in KL at the age of 7

200 AC: Baelor Breakspear tilts against Ser Arlan at Storm’s End in a tourney, organized to celebrate the birth of a baratheon grandson

201 AC: Ser Arlan and Dunk serve for 1 year with House Tyrell

Aegon Targaryen, later known as Aegon V, is born to Maekar Targaryen and an unknown wife

206 AC: Ser Arlan and Dunk serve an unknown amount of time at House Dondarrion

Ser Arlan and Dunk serve half a year with House Florent

There’s a tournament in KL, where Otto Bracken (The Brute of Bracken) kills Quentyn Blackwood

Dunk sees Bloodraven in KL for the first time

208 AC: Tourney at Maidenpool

Dunk and Ser Arlan at Lannisport

The future Lord Walder Frey is born

209 AC :The Hedge Knight

Tourney at Ashford Meadow

Ser Arlan of Pennytree dies

Dunk and Egg start their travels through Dorne

209 AC: Dunk and Egg travel through Dorne

Daeron II dies, Aerys I becomes king with Bloodraven as a Hand

Prince Maekar returns to Summerhall

The daughter of Ser Eustace, Alysanne, dies in KL as a Silent Sister

210 AC: Dunk and Egg conclude their travels through Dorne

Dunk and Egg arrive in Oldtown

211AC: The Sworn Sword

Ser Eustace marries Lady Rohanne Webber

212 AC: The Mystery Knight

The Second Blackfyre Rebellion

Daemon II Blackfyre is arrested by Bloodraven. He is 22 years old

The future Lord Walder Frey is 4 years old

The time that passes in between the Hedge Knight and the Sworn Sword

King Daeron dies in 209 AC and Aerys I ascends to the throne. Bloodraven becomes Hand.

At least a year has passed, since the drought at the beginning of the Sworn Sword is entering it’s second year, and it rained in the beginning of the Hedge Knight, which takes place over several days. So minimal a year has passed.

In between the two stories, Dunk and Egg climbed the Prince’s Pass, crossed the plains of Dorne, went down the Greenblood to Plankey Town, where they boarded a galley to Oldtown. In the Sworn Sword, they time at Oldtown has been half a year ago. Dunk mentions they spend a year in Dorne. From Dorne, they went to Oldtown, which was half a year past, so a minimum of 1,5 years have passed.

Dunk mentions he’s 18 or 19 in the Sworn Sword, where he described himself 16 or 17 in the Hedge Knight.

Dunk guessed Egg’s age in the Hedge Knight as 8. He knows Egg is 10 in the Sworn Sword.

Aerys became King a year and a half ago in the Sword Sword. Aerys became a king in 209 AC.

Dunk mentions having spend a year in Dorne. In addition to the half a year in Oldtown. In the Sword Sword, they appear at Standfast. The distance between Oldtown and Standfast is unknown. The time it took them to travel to Dorne is unknown.

Ser Arlan is mentioned to have died 2 years ago. Ser Arlan died mere days before Aegon became Dunk's squire, and Dunk mentions Aegon had been his squire for a good year and a half.

Between a year and a half and two years have passed, since Aerys I became king a year and a half ago, and Daeron II did not die the day after Dunk and Egg left for Dorne. So one year and 8 months have passed approximately.

The time that passed between the Sworn Sword and the Mystery Knight

Dunk’s injury has healed

Dunk and Egg have travelled from Coldmoat close to the sea (minimal three days ride) to the Stoney Sept in the Riverlands. It is unknown where Coldmoat is located, though.

Aegon is 11, whereas in the Sword Sword, he was 10.

The Blackfyre Rebellion was 16 years ago. In the Sworn Sword, it was described as having been 15 years ago, and 14 years ago (Ser Eustace daughter had died at the age of 20 in the Spring Sickness in 209 AC, and when she was 7, she was taken away at the conclusion of the Blackfyre Rebellion. In the Sworn Sword, placed in 211 AC, she would have been 22 had she lived, thus she had been born in 189 AC, and would have been seven in 196 AC). Ser Eustace himself mentions the Blackfyre Rebellion was 15 years ago, in 211 AC, placing the Blackfyre Rebellion end in 196 AC.

Sidenote: Jaime takes a hostage from House Bracken, and the hostage has to be in KL “by the end of the year”. This takes place somewhat halfway through the year 300 AC. Ser Eustace’s daughter was taken away at the conclusion of the Blackfyre Rebellion, because he had fought for Daemon. The war was already over at that point. Since he holds minor power, and minor lordship, he would not have been the first to give the throne a hostage. Giving a hostage within a year is reasonable. Conclusion: The Blackfyre Rebellion took place in 196 AC, Eustace had to give his hostage within a year, in 197 AC.

Egg’s age, which is now known to Dunk, suggests a year has passed.

So it seems I have answered my own question, thanks to passages By the Old Gods Not theNew gathered for me :) (thank you again, btw :) )

The Blackfyre Rebellion seems to have taken place in 196 AC. Within the following year, Eustace send his daughter to KL to become a hostage. This adds up with Ser Eustace's claim that his sons died 15 years prior, and with his daughter's age when she was send away, compared to her age when she died, and the year in which she died. It also adds up with Dunk's own estimations of his own age, and the mentioning of the Blackfyre Rebellion having been 16 years prior. The only problem is Daemon II telling Dunk that he was 7 when he dreamed about the death of his brothers, and him being 22 years old in TMK. I took that to mean his birthday hasn't come around yet in the year 212 AC :)

An interesting sidenote in reference to my questions in the OP, about Daenerys' wedding. There seems to have been a Tourney in KL in 193 AC. Could that have been to celebrate the wedding of Daenerys and Maron? Getting married in 193 AC, with a Blackfyre Rebellion lasting at least from 195 AC until 196 AC, Daemon used the time in between the wedding and the beginning of the rebellion to gather strength.

What do you guys think about that idea? Getting married in 193 AC seems to make Daenerys (estimated birth year 170 AC) 22 years old. Rather old to get married, but more likely than 26, for example.

In addition, the RPG tells that Daemon rebelled in the 12th year of Daeron's reign, which is 195 AC (his reign began in 184 AC, which makes a part of 184 AC Daeron's first year of reign; a part of 195 AC and a part of 196 AC together would be the twelfth year). With the potential marriage taking place in 193 AC, that would give Daemon 2 years to plot his rebellion.

Edit: Oops, totally forgot to add little Walder Frey!

[By the Old Gods Not theNew]

snip*

:bowdown: Nice! Here's to teamwork :cheers: . I think you're probably right about the Daenerys' and Maeron's marriage taking place in 192ac; and the rebellion taking place either from 193-195ac or 194-195ac.

[CosimaistheHottest]

Wouldn't all this technically fit into the date of 195-196, which is said to be the rebellion date anyway the citadel may not be making it up and have gotten it from Martin himself? It may seem more logical to people that she got married after the rebellion because the betrothal was talked about not the marriage itself
Daemon rose up in rebellion when denied her could mean he tried to overthrow her brother before she was sent to Dorne. All of this could theoretically come from off hand remarks that come from Martin. More than anything, it could just be a case of lousy timeline plotting. Martin knows the dates of everything but doesn't pay close attention to certain peoples ages such as Daenerys. Like you said from your own interpretation of dates Daenerys is still significantly older(22). So technically her first age of 26 marrying Maron Martell could be correct. We won't truly.know any of this.until the world book.comes out so everything is just a theory at the moment.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

You are correct, of course, its all a theory. But

22 sounds way more logical to me than 26. Because Arianne, for example, is still unwed at 23, though she had been expecting a marriage for some time now. Yet no one has raised a suspicious eye. But it seems highly unlikely that she would be wed at 26, especially if you look at Ariannes own thoughts about it.

[Thrice Drowned Veteran]

Brilliant. Quite thoughtful.

I'll be willing to add a few more facts to your argument. The Westeros.org wiki places Daemon Blackfyre's birth year at 170 AL. This makes him the same age as his sister, by your maths. This would explain his love for her. It would also place Daeron II to be the oldest brother by my own estimations.

You've inspired me to research this much deeper. You're onto something. We always talk about the Blackfyre rebellions, but I'm not sure we know the real reasons as to why they happened. There is a big family secret here that is being covered up.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Brilliant. Quite thoughtful.

I'll be willing to add a few more facts to your argument. The Westeros.org wiki places Daemon Blackfyre's birth year at 170 AL. This makes him the same age as his sister, by your maths. This would explain his love for her. It would also place Daeron II to be the oldest brother by my own estimations.

You've inspired me to research this much deeper. You're onto something. We always talk about the Blackfyre rebellions, but I'm not sure we know the real reasons as to why they happened. There is a big family secret here that is being covered up.

Thank you! :D

I've learned over the past few weeks that the wiki contains a lot of mistakes. So I've become a little distrustfull of it :P something that happened in one year on one page, is said to have happened in another year at another page, for example.

I do believe that the birth years of Daemon Bittersteel and Bloodraven were all calculated from the date of the Blackfyre's Rebellion on the wiki, which is, at most pages, but not all, 196 AC. Since we've established that the rebellion happened in 195 AC, I adjusted the birth years of Daemon and his sons accordingly :B GRRM has only ever said how old the three male Great Bastards were during the Redgrass Field. And Daemon was 26 when he died.

[Thrice Drowned Veteran]

The wiki is a great resource. However, as you point out it is slightly inaccurate at times. Don't blame that on the wiki, however, blame it on GRRM who is purposefully being vague (he has to be vague for his own reasons). GRRM has laid out the clues, which is part of the adventure. And to quote him, "The Devil is in the details."

The whole blackfyre story is littered with clues. half of them are red herrings, but the other are so convoluted and complex that piecing them together is an adventure in itself.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Agreed! Though not all the mistakes are GRRM's fault though. Everyone with an account can edit the wiki, and some people add stuff without having a resource (like I stated in my OP, about the marriage date of Maron and Daenerys being 197 AC, even though there has never been a hint whether they got married before the Blackfyre Rebellion or after, etc.).

Yeah, the Devil is in details. But I love details! :D

Of course, your original point stands (as I forgot to add in my previous post :) ). Daenerys, whether she was born in 170 or 171 AC, she would have been close in age with Daemon, who also grew up at court (as Daena's son and later as Aegon's legitimized bastard). The age thing and the fact that they lived at the same castle did gave them a better opportunity to fall in love.

[Thrice Drowned Veteran]

I would also add that, according to the wiki, Baelor Breakspear would've been born around the same time (170 AL).

Baelor was the son of Myriah Martell and Daeron Targaryen. If Daeron is old enough to have a child that is the same age as his brother, Daeron is at least 15 years older than Daemon (based on human child bearing age).

I'm not sure the details of the deal (Dorne's succession laws complicate things a bit). It is difficult to discern whether Myriah or Maron is older. If we dissect Doran's deal with Varys, Viserys and Arriane would sit the throne, while Daenerys and Quentyn rule dorne. This would lead me to conclude that Myriah Martell was older, which would explain Dorne's willingness to let the deal go through, because their new Queen would've ruled them anyhow. In that case (this is the most likely scenario), Myriah would be the same age as Daeron and Maron would be the same age as Daemon, Daenerys, and Baelor (Maron's nephew). Of course, one could argue that Daemon was angry because his love sacrificed for someone unworthy. I would also declare war if my brother sold my girlfriend off to some sleazy old man. This is purely fan fiction. However, like I said, history has a way of repeating itself. Sometimes I think that's the purpose of the Blackfyre rebellion is simply to make that statement.

Think of all the parallels you could draw between Aegon IV and Robert Baratheon. They're exactly the same person. The rumors of Aegon's wife having an affair with her own brother, a member of the Kingsguard. IN ALL LIKELIHOOD DAERON II WAS A BASTARD HIMSELF. That's why Daemon didn't rebel until 12 years into Daeron's reign. This is why I think you're onto something here. As far as nobles are concerned, silence is consent. Daemon kept his silence for 11 years of Daeron's reign. Something Daeron did must've been so horribly wrong that Daemon HAD TO TAKE A STAND. Daeron marrying of the love of his life MUST have been the deciding factor.

If Daeron made a corrrupt bargain to give someone who was the Walder Frey of his time and soil the Targaryen family name in kind, I would rebel. Likewise, it certainly puts a stain on the Lannister name to be associated with a scumbag like Walder Frey. He is an awful person and the Tullys have every right to insult his name wherever the opportunity arises. If I was Kevan, I would've been revolted with Tywin for even considering such a corrupt bargain such as the Red Wedding. I'm not saying Maron was a whoremonger like Walder, but I'm saying the deal must've been corrupt.

or ...

Daemon could've been racist and hated the Dornish.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I would also add that, according to the wiki, Baelor Breakspear would've been born around the same time (170 AL).

Baelor was the son of Myriah Martell and Daeron Targaryen. If Daeron is old enough to have a child that is the same age as his brother, Daeron is at least 15 years older than Daemon (based on human child bearing age).

I'm not sure the details of the deal (Dorne's succession laws complicate things a bit). It is difficult to discern whether Myriah or Maron is older. If we dissect Doran's deal with Varys, Viserys and Arriane would sit the throne, while Daenerys and Quentyn rule dorne. This would lead me to conclude that Myriah Martell was older, which would explain Dorne's willingness to let the deal go through, because their new Queen would've ruled them anyhow. In that case (this is the most likely scenario), Myriah would be the same age as Daeron and Maron would be the same age as Daemon, Daenerys, and Baelor (Maron's nephew). Of course, one could argue that Daemon was angry because his love sacrificed for someone unworthy. I would also declare war if my brother sold my girlfriend off to some sleazy old man. This is purely fan fiction. However, like I said, history has a way of repeating itself. Sometimes I think that's the purpose of the Blackfyre rebellion is simply to make that statement.

Think of all the parallels you could draw between Aegon IV and Robert Baratheon. They're exactly the same person. The rumors of Aegon's wife having an affair with her own brother, a member of the Kingsguard. IN ALL LIKELIHOOD DAERON II WAS A BASTARD HIMSELF. That's why Daemon didn't rebel until 12 years into Daeron's reign. This is why I think you're onto something here. As far as nobles are concerned, silence is consent. Daemon kept his silence for 11 years of Daeron's reign. Something Daeron did must've been so horribly wrong that Daemon HAD TO TAKE A STAND. Daeron marrying of the love of his life MUST have been the deciding factor.

If Daeron made a corrrupt bargain to give someone who was the Walder Frey of his time and soil the Targaryen family name in kind, I would rebel. Likewise, it certainly puts a stain on the Lannister name to be associated with a scumbag like Walder Frey. He is an awful person and the Tullys have every right to insult his name wherever the opportunity arises. If I was Kevan, I would've been revolted with Tywin for even considering such a corrupt bargain such as the Red Wedding. I'm not saying Maron was a whoremonger like Walder, but I'm saying the deal must've been corrupt.

or ...

Daemon could've been racist and hated the Dornish.

I guess that there are three possibilities for Myriah and Maron:

(1) Either Myriah was the elder of the two, and she gave up her claim to Dorne when she became Daeron's wife, knowing that Baelor wasn't like to get heirs, and Viserys, Aegon and next Daeron would ascend the throne, and her son with Daeron after them. Maron could have been born several years after Myriah, as the second (surviving) child.

(2) Or, Myriah was the youngest of the two and Maron was simply an older man when Daenerys married him. However, the fact that he would be at leat 17 years or somewhat close to that older than Daenerys, and still unwed and without an heir, would be strange. Heirs to Great Houses usually marry young, to provide heirs, should something happen to them. With an age difference this big, it would be rather strange that Maron hadn't married yet. And we know that Daenerys' son by Maron was the child to inherit.

(3) Or, Myriah was, as stated in the text, the sister to the Prince of Dorne, who is never named. This Prince could be Maron's father, who had died by the time Daenerys married Maron, making Maron the Prince of Dorne.

Besides Daenerys being married off to Maron, I guess there were several other factors that made Daemon rebel. We can't know all of them, but it is known that when Daeron ordered the arrest of Daemon, Daeron and Daemon already had had several notable clashes, so they obviously did not get along very well. Adding to that, that Daeron's court was heavily influenced by the Dornish, who were brought to court by Myriah, and were now an official part of the Seven Kingdoms. There were already multiple lords who objected to this, though it's possible Daemon himself had no problem with this.

Adding to that that the Dornish (still) don't have a good reputation, and Daemon's great love was being married off to a Dornishman.

There most likely were other reasons though :)

[Mychel_Redfort]

Not sure if this will be useful, but I just fell on that quote in my re-read of TMK, and I didn't see this mentioned in this thread. From TMK :

"Lady Butterwell, the maiden bride, my darling daughter. May the Mother make her fertile." Frey gave the girl a smile. "I shall want a grandson before the year is out. Twins would suit me even better, so churn the butter well tonight, my sweet."

This seems to mean the events of TMK happen during the three first moons of 212 AC

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Not sure if this will be useful, but I just fell on that quote in my re-read of TMK, and I didn't see this mentioned in this thread. From TMK :

"Lady Butterwell, the maiden bride, my darling daughter. May the Mother make her fertile." Frey gave the girl a smile. "I shall want a grandson before the year is out. Twins would suit me even better, so churn the butter well tonight, my sweet."

This seems to mean the events of TMK happen during the three first moons of 212 AC

Just curious, how do you place it three moons into 212AC? :)

[Mychel_Redfort]

Assuming a pregnancy lasts 9 moons in Westeros, we have to be in the first three moons of the year for the grandson to be born before the year is out, no?

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Assuming a pregnancy lasts 9 moons in Westeros, we have to be in the first three moons of the year for the grandson to be born before the year is out, no?

*Facepalm* you are correct.. :)