WeaselPie Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 2. They were responding to Jorah as a familiar figure they trusted, which could imply that Valyrian blood isn't necessary to tame a dragon. I don't agree with this, i'm of the belief that you do infact need to be blood of the dragon to bond one Getting off-topic to the point at hand, but a "miracle specific to her" doesn't make it any less of a freak occurrence. Miracles by their definition are always specific to the people for which they occur, that's kind of what makes them miracles. ETA: Because it's not pertinent to the thread, this is the last I'll say on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Beyond the Wall Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 ........ 4. Dany made kind of a dumbass choice to 1. pick a command that's in a language that's fairly well known in that part of the world and 2. make that command public on multiple occasions. I think she probably chose valayrian because it was from her heritage, and given the people in her "khalasar" at the time, valayrian was not really the common tongue. She had a mixed group, so using Dothraki, or the common tongue, would have been dumbass. She probably felt legitimized as a targaryen by hatching dragons so the old tongue of her peops would be a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hey, I'm not opposed to them responding to Jorah for that reason. But in that case, the Valyrian blood thing gets shaky; if Jorah doesn't have Valyrian blood, then they shouldn't obey him. And if they obey him because he's familiar to them, then that implies that other factors are at play besides Valyrian blood. Ah ok. I don't believe its Valyrian blood but familiarity that will help with the dragons. (Then again we could turn this into a "Jorah is a secret Targ" discussion...). I think Dracarys will only work if the dragons see some sort of 'authority' with the person saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think she probably chose valayrian because it was from her heritage, and given the people in her "khalasar" at the time, valayrian was not really the common tongue. She had a mixed group, so using Dothraki, or the common tongue, would have been dumbass. She probably felt legitimized as a targaryen by hatching dragons so the old tongue of her peops would be a good choice. More likely because it is the language of Valyria, from whence the dragons came? Anyway, why would a dragon understand a word without being trained to do so? As I mentioned, there is an implication that there is some sort of genetic language memory. As in, I trained my dogs to sit when I say Fffft. Or go to their bed when I say Sleepytime. That's the language they know, and I chose these words because I'm the boss. ETA if they can hibernate in fossilized eggs for centuries, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some kind of aural memory in addition to their other "talents" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rahvin Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 But didn't GRRM already say the third rider didn't have to be a Targ? Maybe OP is onto something, and language is the first bonding key. Not being Targ is a BIG difference to not having Dragonblood...Besides that comment was carefully made to throw the readers off of Jon's trail...Jon will ride long before he is reveled as Targ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickStormborn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Back on topic, a really interesting OP, something I'd not thought of. Chekhov's Dracarys? The fact Grrm gives us Jorah setting things off, makes a future catastrophe a distinct possibility. Regarding Nettles, i don't think we can be sure what is being implied. A false sense of doubt - or an exception? Both stances are equally valid with what we know. This has already happened; it's called the Sack of Astapor, and it involved 8000 Unsullied chanting the word "dracarys". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Beyond the Wall Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I really don't understand the point of this thread? The Unsullied literally shouted "Dracarys" back at Dany the first time it was used in warfare, so the fact that other people can say the word should not be news to anyone, lol..... point.I think was the dragon using his/their brain(s) and understanding a command is a command, and a shouting crowd is not commanding him/them. What is the point of any thread. Fun speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rahvin Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hey, I'm not opposed to them responding to Jorah for that reason. But in that case, the Valyrian blood thing gets shaky; if Jorah doesn't have Valyrian blood, then they shouldn't obey him. And if they obey him because he's familiar to them, then that implies that other factors are at play besides Valyrian blood. Was she? Unless im missing something, any rider MUST have blood of the dragon. So yes Nette was a bastard from DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Beyond the Wall Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 More likely because it is the language of Valyria, from whence the dragons came? Anyway, why would a dragon understand a word without being trained to do so? As I mentioned, there is an implication that there is some sort of genetic language memory. As in, I trained my dogs to sit when I say Fffft. Or go to their bed when I say Sleepytime. That's the language they know. ETA if they can hibernate in fossilized eggs for centuries, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some kind of aural memory in addition to their other "talents"I don't think the OP is implying that they obey "dracarys" because they were born able to understand valayrian. It's what they were taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I really don't understand the point of this thread? And yet here you are. Unless im missing something, any rider MUST have blood of the dragon. So yes Nette was a bastard from DS Ring a ding ding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I don't think the OP is implying that they obey "dracarys" because they were born able to understand valayrian. It's what they were taught. I'm trying to understand the importance of language to the dragons, since that is the topic. And actually... Dany had a hard time getting them to feed until she tried out "Dracarys" on a piece of pork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rahvin Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 And yet here you are. Ring a ding ding. I have yet to see evidence of anyone riding who didn't have dragonblood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm trying to understand the importance of language to the dragons, since that is the topic. It's not really how it's important to the dragons. It's that Dany, either being oblivious or not really thinking ahead or both, chose a Valyrian word with which to command them. Perhaps at the time, as someone suggested, it seems prudent, given that she was mostly surrounded by Dothraki who didn't speak Valyrian. But as other parts of Essos get more and more involved in what she's doing, more and more people will get involved who speak Valyrian and who might inadvertently or intentionally pick up on "dracarys" and appropriate it for themselves. So it's not about the language as it relates to the dragons, but as it relates to the people who might try to commandeer them. I have yet to see evidence of anyone riding who didn't have dragonblood? ... Why the heck do you think I pointed out Nettles? At the absolute bare minimum, I think her inclusion and her method of training are meant to give us at least some pause about the Valyrian blood magic nonsense. And plenty of people with more obvious Valyrian features got themselves roasted trying to train a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I have yet to see evidence of anyone riding who didn't have dragonblood? Nettles is ambiguous. Presumably that was to create doubt in the mind of the reader, so we would be having debates as we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LovinRC Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 She raised them like pups, taught them a command word. It worked for the dragon closest to her. Cannot wait for the return of Dany and Drogon. Fun filled for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rahvin Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Nettles is ambiguous. Presumably that was to create doubt in the mind of the reader, so we would be having debates as ,are now. Along the same thinking I believe GRRM's comment regarding dragonriders was also to throw the readers off his trail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaselPie Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It's not really how it's important to the dragons. It's that Dany, either being oblivious or not really thinking ahead or both, chose a Valyrian word with which to command them. Perhaps at the time, as someone suggested, it seems prudent, given that she was mostly surrounded by Dothraki who didn't speak Valyrian. But as other parts of Essos get more and more involved in what she's doing, more and more people will get involved who speak Valyrian and who might inadvertently or intentionally pick up on "dracarys" and appropriate it for themselves. So it's not about the language as it relates to the dragons, but as it relates to the people who might try to commandeer them. My bad then. I thought the topic was about who was conceivably able to control dragons with the right Valyrian words, as you have suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Along the same thinking I believe GRRM's comment regarding dragonriders was also to throw the readers off his trail He would not outright lie. There's being ambiguous and then there's lying. He doesn't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 This has already happened; it's called the Sack of Astapor, and it involved 8000 Unsullied chanting the word "dracarys". I really don't understand the point of this thread? The Unsullied literally shouted "Dracarys" back at Dany the first time it was used in warfare, so the fact that other people can say the word should not be news to anyone, lol. The Unsullied shouted Dracarys as Dany did, so it went along with her plan. The point of the thread it to consider what happens when someone shouts Dracarys when Dany doesn't want dragonfire everywhere. I'm sorry I had to type that out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rahvin Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 He would not outright lie. There's being ambiguous and then there's lying. He doesn't lie. Absolutely not a lie..."dragonriders need not be Targ", a very calculated comment to throw off the readers. Jon will presumable ride soon??? Probably long before his lineage is discovered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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