Northern Reinforcements

[Joseph Stark]

Currently in the books we see that the Northern strength is still far from spent. I understand why Robb didnt have time to gather a larger force befor marching but after he left for the south the forces left in the North were: Benfred Tallhart and the wild hares, 600 men from the dreadfort with Ramsey, Ser Rodrik was easily able to raise an additional 600 men to defend Torrens square and 2000 men total to retake winterfell, 400-600 Umbers(old men and green boys), 3000 clansmen, the entire Skagoosi force(which people estimate at around 5000), all the craggonmen, Manderlys 100 landed knights as well as a few thousand more men that can be levied from the the city populace, and add to that all them men that we see now with Bolton at Winterfell including a significant force that was deliberately held back by Lady Dustin from Barrowton. All together this remaining pool of manpower could easily equal the amount of men that Robb took south with him. Granted that Robb probably took most of the best fighting men but there was plent of time to arm and train these other men and bring them south if needed. So my question is why didnt Robb ever consider sending one of his bannerman back to the North to raise another host like Tywin did after Jamies host was destroyed?

He had alot of success with hit and run tactics and suprise attacks with his small calvary force but after the battle of Green Fork he made no further use of his infantry under the command of Roose Bolton(2/3 to 3/4ths of his force) As well as the 12,000 men Edmure was able to summon for the battle of Stonemill. Why didnt Robb every try to recombine his forces after the split and they lifted the siege of Riverrun? His forces combined with the Riverlords and augmented with fresh troops from the north he would be looking a host that was easily double Tywins host after their losses at the Green Fork and the annihaltion of Jamies host and of Staffords host at Oxcross. Also why didnt he ever make use of the Navy that Manderly built for him at White Harbor?

IMO he was a good general and was good at tactics and leading men but had problems looking at the big picture and making grander plans and deligating orders to his other forces spread across the map. Ned was reportedly very good at this and I believe Robb could have been to if Ned had lived and Robb had more time to learn from Ned in a wartime scenario and Robb would have made an exellent commander of calvary until it was his turn to lead.

[averde]

Robb went south with the army of the North. The army isn't everyone, it's not even everyone who can fight. A country needs food so farmers stay, you need to stop bandits and criminals so the town guard stays, you can still be attacked by wildlings (or ironborn) so you have to leave some guards. This is especially true in a place like the north where living is hard and villages are few and far between.

[Joseph Stark]

I wasnt suggesting he call up all remaining men to fight in the south but according to the number he easily had another 20,000 plus men in the north. He could have called up half that many to replace the men lost in battle and still ended up with more then he started with.

[MegaAIP]

My shot at this would be.

It's easier to move an army of 20,000 then 40,000. His tactics were a lot of hit and run in smaller groups.

If he could have mustered another 20,000 he would have to feed them.

What every army needs

Breed

Feed

Lead

You need to train them, feed them and have leaders

[Joseph Stark]

robb had 18000 plus 4000 freys minus lets say 6000 lost at the Green Fork and 2000 between the whispering wood,battle of the camps, and oxcross so 14000 plus Edmures 12000 and 10000 reenforcements from the north and hes has 36000 men against Tywins host which was 20000 to begin with so after then Green Fork lets say 18000 to be generous.....Robb has him 2 to 1.......The two southern most Bannerman with the highest population density and largest northern population centers only sent 1500 and 1000 men which is only a small amount of their available forces plus he has the completely untapped forces of the Craggonmen, the hill clans, and the skagosi. There is no reason they cant scrape together another 10000 men to secure the future of their kingdom and the survival of their sovereign

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

He already had more soldiers than he could find a use for, such as his large infantry army under Roose Bolton that he left alone to do whatever it wanted for a year or so after the Battle of the Green Fork, while he was riding around with his cavarly along goat trails in the Westerlands and having fun. So it is not surprising that he didn't call down yet more troops from the North, really.

Robb works in mysterious ways.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

He already had more soldiers than he could find a use for, such as his large infantry army under Roose Bolton that he just left to do whatever it wanted for a year or so after the Battle of the Green Fork, while he was riding around with his cavarly along goat trails in the Westerlands and having fun. So it is not surprising that he didn't call down yet more troops from the North, really.

Robb works in mysterious ways.

worked...he is gone brah

[averde]

You also have to consider whether Robb knew that many reinforcements were available to him. When Robb rode off to war he was a very young "green boy" attacking Tywin Lannister and the Iron Throne. Theres a very good chance many of the Northern lords held back some of their forces initially in the assumption Robb was doomed to get slaughtered. Once Robb met with success its not like his lords are going to be like "Hey by the way I lied to you earlier and left half my army at home because I thought you were going to lose".

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

worked...he is gone brah

He died for our sins, but will return in the final days to take all true believers to a land of milk and honey lamprey pie and beer.

[Barty]

Did he need them? After WW, Robb was winning. At that point he had a total of 30k+, easily outnumbering Tywin. But Tywin was at HarrenHall - Even united and with a further 10k men from the North he still cannot take HarrenHall(its too strong - no doubt why Tywin went there in the first place) - a siege was possible if he was willing to gather all his armies and plant them outside HH, but that would leave RR(and Robbs back) exposed to Stafford and his not insubstantial army.

Tywin wanted to stay on inside HH, that was his stronghold. Robb had to find a way to make Tywin give up that fortress - and he did so very well. Robb's plan(according to Robb and the BF) was never to fight Tywin after he left HH(thus not needing further reinforcements) - just to make Tywin chase him in the west for as long as it took for Stannis to take KL and then Tywin would have no choice but to sign a peace with Robb.

So it seems that during all this time Robb never needed more men. He only felt the need for men after he returned from the west and found Tywin had allied himself with an army of 80k(and that Bolton had begun to loose men). Now it was too late to call for reinforcements since WF had fallen, and the IronBorn held MC.

[KINGpanther]

When Robb invaded the south Tywin didnt take him seriously and so Robb could move his army around unhindered. Once tywin knew the threat Robb posed, any attempt for reinforcements woulda been met with resistence. Plus Robb wouldnt of needed reinforcements if not for Stannis.

[Nucky Thompson]

It's not like all those men mentioned above would answer a second call to arms: Lady Dustin, for one, would still keep her force at home. And yes, Robb's modus operandi didn't make use of all his available strength, let alone need further reinforcements, but that was due to his strategic situation. The other part of his army was so idle, that Roose Bolton started having ideas on how to utilise the forces under him. How could Robb make use of them? I think that at least some pillaging of the neighbouring Crownlands would've been in order - to ease the foraging of his own Riverlands, and to keep his forces occupied, all the while lowering morale among his enemies.

What I'm wondering is, why didn't Robb try to remedy this by approaching the Martells. Dorne hates the Lannisters with a passion, and while Eddard must've been seen as one who assisted in the downfall of Elia, they would be expected to at least consider exacting their vengeance on Tywin and his cronies. We, the readers, know that Doran plays the long game and would be happy to stay out if it all until the Usurper's Dogs tear each other to pieces, but Robb couldn't have predicted that. He even approached the Greyjoys, the last faction with which the Starks were at war, and he made no attempt to raise Dorne?

[shearstone]

It's not like all those men mentioned above would answer a second call to arms: Lady Dustin, for one, would still keep her force at home. And yes, Robb's modus operandi didn't make use of all his available strength, let alone need further reinforcements, but that was due to his strategic situation. The other part of his army was so idle, that Roose Bolton started having ideas on how to utilise the forces under him. How could Robb make use of them? I think that at least some pillaging of the neighbouring Crownlands would've been in order - to ease the foraging of his own Riverlands, and to keep his forces occupied, all the while lowering morale among his enemies.

What I'm wondering is, why didn't Robb try to remedy this by approaching the Martells. Dorne hates the Lannisters with a passion, and while Eddard must've been seen as one who assisted in the downfall of Elia, they would be expected to at least consider exacting their vengeance on Tywin and his cronies. We, the readers, know that Doran plays the long game and would be happy to stay out if it all until the Usurper's Dogs tear each other to pieces, but Robb couldn't have predicted that. He even approached the Greyjoys, the last faction with which the Starks were at war, and he made no attempt to raise Dorne?

With the reach between Dorne and the West they weren't much use to Robb logistically speaking. The iron islands were closer to the Westerlands, and they possessed a flight which is something Robb lacked so they were useful. Also at the time Robb was trying to get an alliance with Renly and the Tyrells who were also more useful than the Martells and once Renly died, Robb was busy dealing with Stefford in the west to bother thinking about further alliances and he had Ironborn issues that Dorne couldn't help with. Even so if Stannis had taken KL Robb wouldn't have needed allies he could have dealt with the Ironborn by himself whilst Tywin and Stannis duked it out.

As for why Robb didn't send for reinforcements I think it's been well covered already. He didn't need them and they would have just been extra mouths to feed, he needed to go west so he didn't get surrounded by Stefford and by the time he could of used them after getting back Winterfell had fallen and the moat was guarded,

[Bright Blue Eyes]

First, he didn't need them. He had Tywin pinned. But Harrenhal itself was not a valid target, he'd need 200,000 men for an assault, 60,000 for a siege. Impossible to feed. They'd literally starve. That's why he couldn't take Tywin head on and finish the war.
Every other credible target was soft enough, that Robb didn't need more than his 6,000 cavalry.

Far later, he would have needed more men. But Ramsay had razed Winterfell already, and exterminated the power structure in the North.

It's not like all those men mentioned above would answer a second call to arms: Lady Dustin, for one, would still keep her force at home. And yes, Robb's modus operandi didn't make use of all his available strength, let alone need further reinforcements, but that was due to his strategic situation. The other part of his army was so idle, that Roose Bolton started having ideas on how to utilise the forces under him. How could Robb make use of them? I think that at least some pillaging of the neighbouring Crownlands would've been in order - to ease the foraging of his own Riverlands, and to keep his forces occupied, all the while lowering morale among his enemies.

Geographics. With Tywin in Harrenhal, any foray into the Crownlands could have been cut off and wiped out.

[Steelcan]

So why didn't Robb send ravens have have some of those soldiers try and retake MC from the north?

Did I miss something again? I really need to reread the first few books...

[Bright Blue Eyes]

So why didn't Robb send ravens have have some of those soldiers try and retake MC from the north?

Did I miss something again? I really need to reread the first few books...

The answer is Ramsay. Ser Rodrik Cassel had this army already formed up (the initial amount at least), but was killed by Ramsay together with the other high command (Cerwyn etc.).

Furthermore, Lord Manderly as an obvious alternative was involved in a civil war with Ramsay in the Hornwood lands.

Glover and Tallhart were in the South and their castles taken by the Ironborn.

Bran was "dead" and Winterfell as administrative center destroyed.

The North had the manpower, but lacked the leadership after Ramsay's decapitation strike.

[TheNinjaDC]

He thought ahead as much as GRRM would allow.

And truthfully, the North is more a defensive nation that usually sends 1/4-1/3 of it's forces south as an expeditionary unit of sorts.

North cavalry seem to be like the US marine's in WW1. Less equipped, less numbers, but tenacious as *****.

Examples can be found in Rob's blitzkreg effects on Tywin's forces & Roderik Ruin in the first dance of dragons.

I wonder since there are hardly any knights in the north, but armored cavalry means they are less prone to knightly habits like surrendering for ransome.

[Nucky Thompson]

First, he didn't need them. He had Tywin pinned. But Harrenhal itself was not a valid target, he'd need 200,000 men for an assault, 60,000 for a siege. Impossible to feed. They'd literally starve. That's why he couldn't take Tywin head on and finish the war.

Every other credible target was soft enough, that Robb didn't need more than his 6,000 cavalry.

Far later, he would have needed more men. But Ramsay had razed Winterfell already, and exterminated the power structure in the North.

Geographics. With Tywin in Harrenhal, any foray into the Crownlands could have been cut off and wiped out.

Yeah, overextending would be a risk, but wouldn't drawing Tywin out of Harrenhal make the risk somewhat worthwhile? He did have the support of both the North and the Riverlands at the time, all the while effectively cutting off Stafford's reinforcements, thus isolating Tywin's position in Harrenhall and leveling the field somewhat. Which leads me to the second question - I know that Stannis wouldn't accept an alliance with a traitor stealing half his kingdom, but still - what was to prevent Roose's army from marching on King's Landing at the same time with Stannis? Roose wouldn't have to join his army with that of Stannis, he wouldn't have to actually assault the capitol, his only objective would be to wait in close proximity as to discourage the likes of the Tyrells from ganging up on Stannis. Yes, Tywin was in the way of such an expedition, but at least Roose would be able to keep him occupied and stop him from relieving the capital, which must have been the top priority at the time and should've been Plan B if luring Tywin west wouldn't work.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Yeah, overextending would be a risk, but wouldn't drawing Tywin out of Harrenhal make the risk somewhat worthwhile? He did have the support of both the North and the Riverlands at the time, all the while effectively cutting off Stafford's reinforcements, thus isolating Tywin's position in Harrenhall and leveling the field somewhat. Which leads me to the second question - I know that Stannis wouldn't accept an alliance with a traitor stealing half his kingdom, but still - what was to prevent Roose's army from marching on King's Landing at the same time with Stannis? Roose wouldn't have to join his army with that of Stannis, he wouldn't have to actually assault the capitol, his only objective would be to wait in close proximity as to discourage the likes of the Tyrells from ganging up on Stannis. Yes, Tywin was in the way of such an expedition, but at least Roose would be able to keep him occupied and stop him from relieving the capital, which must have been the top priority at the time and should've been Plan B if luring Tywin west wouldn't work.

Drawing Tywin out of Harrenhal wouldn't work. Well, it did, and caused Tywin to loose at Stonemill, but Robb needed men and a commander in the Westerlands to achieve that. But marching to Harrenhal and waiting for Tywin to come out for battle was useless.

Roose marched into Harrenhal as soon as Tywin had left it. And he left it there. Robb couldn't decide anything here, since between the Robb being missing in the Westerlands and the flight time for ravens, he couldn't reach Roose in time. Everything would have to be Roose's own initiative.

Furthermore, following Tywin so closely would have been incredible dangerous. All the way from Stonemill to KL, Tywin could turn around and curbstomp Roose's inferior forces far from Stannis. Following with more distance would have rendered any chances to affect the Battle of the Blackwater moot.

[juanml82]

Additional men could have been used to assault Lannisport, but timing is key: Robb has to break into the Westerlands, order more men to be gathered while, in the meantime, the Manderlys are fighting the Boltons. And, soon after that, the Ironborn invaded