bpsae325 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 So I am doing a reread of DWD and I came to the part where Tyrion signs with the Second Sons. He states that there are 50 or 60 documents, plus the 3 for Brown Ben Plumm, Inkpots and Kasporio, I'm going to say there are 63 notes in total. We know the first set of notes is for 100 golden dragons, the second set of notes (that started about halfway down) were for 1,000 golden dragons, the notes for Inkpots and Kaspiro were for 10,000 golden dragons each and Brown Ben got 100,000 golden dragons, 50 herds of land, a castle and a lordship. That adds up to 153,000 golden dragons,50 herds of land, a castle and a lordship as his price. Is it just me or does it seem like Tyrion is getting off pretty cheap, considering everything he is getting? My reason for saying this is based off the fact that Tywin lent ~3.000.000 gold dragons to the Iron Throne, so 153000 gold dragons is roughly 5% off of that loan alone. I am going to use some economics here (I am an economist) and use the basic assumption of economics that states "people are rational". Using this concept, I assume that Tywin would not have lent out more than 30% of his net worth, which brings the Lannister net worth to 20,000,000 golden dragons. Therefore, Tyrion is only using .75% of his potential net worth, and he gets his freedom, a battalion, admittedly a sellsword battalion, but a battalion nonetheless, an opportunity to join the side with actual dragons and he is almost certainly guaranteed to be a key player in the realm for years to come, if his side wins. If they lose, he will die and thus loses nothing, as he was in a dire situation to begin with, however if he ends up on the winning side, all it will have cost him, financially anyway, is .75% of his net worth. Seems to me he got a great deal.Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr Patter Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I agree. The money appears to be a small price to pay should he actually obtain Casterly Rock. Even better, it is all "paper dragons," meaning he doesn't have to pay a dragon unless he himself gets paid. Still, this might just be the first of many promises he will sign over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylva Santagar Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Why not cut a good deal?? And it seems to be a win-win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 If your calculations are correct, it's a very good deal. I think he was able to pull it off because the Second Sons don't really know how spectacularly wealthy House Lannister really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 It's a lot of money for any sellsword. Especially as the Second Sons are not a lot of sellswords. Basically, the only thing Tyrion gets out of it is the chance to survive the next month. On the other hand, it's far, far more than the Second Sons could expect. And that counts triple for Brown Ben Plumm himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsae325 Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 I agree. The money appears to be a small price to pay should he actually obtain Casterly Rock. Even better, it is all "paper dragons," meaning he doesn't have to pay a dragon unless he himself gets paid. Still, this might just be the first of many promises he will sign over. True, he may have to go into the wallet some more, but looking at it from Brown Ben's perspective it seems like a win win, as he gets a lot of money, plus a lordship which is a huge raise in social status, but the rest his company gets screwed. Even Inkpots and Kaspiro. They, the 2 officers, should have realized that they were his only option and got more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Also, being a sellsword is a dangerous job. Some, even many of those sellswords might die in the process of winning Tyrion back Casterly Rock, making this deal even better for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave_Companion Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 There are bold sellswords and there are old sellswords but there are no old bold sellswords.Brown Ben knows not to push his luck or it may become more attractive to pay some else to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsae325 Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 There are bold sellswords and there are old sellswords but there are no old bold sellswords. Brown Ben knows not to push his luck or it may become more attractive to pay some else to kill them. A fair point with a good quote, however Lannister's pay their debts, so I don't think he would have to worry about Tyrion hiring an assassin to off him. With that being said, Brown Ben did win on a micro level, but Tyrion won on a macro level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 The thing not mentioned here is that Brown Benn was in a pretty bad position. The Yunkish along with the second sons have already lost the siege of Mereen, regardless of how the battle happens, the plague has taken its course, actually I can't decide if the battle will help stop the plague or help spread it.(less living people around, more dead bodies around) Either way Brown Benn managed to royally piss of the only person in the world with Dragons, and soon a Khalasar, then join the loosing side of a battle, if you ask me Brown Benn is lucky he did not have to pay Tyrion, that is if Tyrion has any intention of keeping him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waters Gate Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I think Brown Benn strikes a competent deal, asking quite a lot to some measurements but then not asking that much cosnidering the wealth the lanisters might have.Brown Benn also devides the money somewhat to make everyone happy, not the least those who are there to see the contract, but he especially aranges a very nice price for himself. And Tyrion is lucky. Few people that might consider that i guess to suppord a lord with a claim who has no money, army's, and a tattered reputation. Part of the reason why they should is the amount of money they can get, and in a sense thats an opportunity for them. One of the reasons why they might hold back from supporting Tyrion, is that the second sons might question their own abilety in actually taking the westerlands, a large region afterall in a country far away and it's likely the Westerlands have at any point far more men than the second sons and the westerland castles arn't that eay to storm i guess neither. Otoh what a nice price for brown Benn. Lots of gold, a lordship and everything that comes with it. Its the dream of any ambitious non lordly man to be able to get so far, as to be able to cement youre family name in some greater security. There are few people of coman background in the series who manage to work themselfs up like that, there is Davos and bronn, they sure seem to know how much to value such a prize. Youre practicly "settled" with all that, unless youre liege lord gets all youre family members killed in some war, but thats just part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I think Brown Benn strikes a competent deal, asking quite a lot to some measurements but then not asking that much cosnidering the wealth the lanisters might have. Brown Benn also devides the money somewhat to make everyone happy, not the least those who are there to see the contract, but he especially aranges a very nice price for himself. And Tyrion is lucky. Few people that might consider that i guess to suppord a lord with a claim who has no money, army's, and a tattered reputation. Part of the reason why they should is the amount of money they can get, and in a sense thats an opportunity for them. One of the reasons why they might hold back from supporting Tyrion, is that the second sons might question their own abilety in actually taking the westerlands, a large region afterall in a country far away and it's likely the Westerlands have at any point far more men than the second sons and the westerland castles arn't that eay to storm i guess neither. Otoh what a nice price for brown Benn. Lots of gold, a lordship and everything that comes with it. Its the dream of any ambitious non lordly man to be able to get so far, as to be able to cement youre family name in some greater security. There are few people of coman background in the series who manage to work themselfs up like that, there is Davos and bronn, they sure seem to know how much to value such a prize. Youre practicly "settled" with all that, unless youre liege lord gets all youre family members killed in some war, but thats just part of it. The Second Sons have about 600 men. The Westerlands currently feature 3,000, and that's after all the beatings they suffered and sending the remnants home - which Tyrion doesn't even know. Before the Wot5K, they featured 45,000 men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowzeye Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 That's Tyrion for you he's smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Like Davos Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 The Second Sons have about 600 men. The Westerlands currently feature 3,000, and that's after all the beatings they suffered and sending the remnants home - which Tyrion doesn't even know.Before the Wot5K, they featured 45,000 men.They had 45k men in the field between Tywin and Jaime's armies. Chances are their total fighting force including garrisons was much larger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 They had 45k men in the field between Tywin and Jaime's armies. Chances are their total fighting force including garrisons was much larger Garrisons number between the dozens and the (few) hundred each - and that's for major castles like Winterfell, Riverrun and Storms End. Furthermore, Stafford plundered them for his army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tam Stark Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 i thought whem i read it tyrion was held to ransom but the op has put a different perspective on it can somebody please remind me what happened the mountain clans actually got when he promised them the vale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 i thought whem i read it tyrion was held to ransom but the op has put a different perspective on it can somebody please remind me what happened the mountain clans actually got when he promised them the vale? They got 3,000 full sets of armor and weapons. And lost at least 50% of their numbers, got ridiculed and kicked out of KL after fighting to defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 They got 3,000 full sets of armor and weapons. And lost at least 50% of their numbers, got ridiculed and kicked out of KL after fighting to defend it. I think the bigger question was whether Tyrion really means to give them the Vale? And what exactly does that entail? Make each clan a Vale House, sworn to the Arryns? Or help the clans overthrow the Arryns altogether and install their own leader? Because the latter is a very scary prospect, which will almost certainly throw the Vale in a civil war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 There are bold sellswords and there are old sellswords but there are no old bold sellswords. Brown Ben knows not to push his luck or it may become more attractive to pay some else to kill them. what IO find funny is that noone (te second sons, Tyrion) realise that tyrion will be unable to hold te rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Like Davos Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Garrisons number between the dozens and the (few) hundred each - and that's for major castles like Winterfell, Riverrun and Storms End. Furthermore, Stafford plundered them for his army.Yes and stafford's army isn't included in the 45k #.That's my point, they had more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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