Soon claims will be useless

[joluoto2]

So, everyone can agree there's chaos coming. Dany, Cersei, Euron, Aegon, probably other people as well will duke it out in the South. The Others will descend on the North. The death toll will be enormous, and many of the characters we follow will die. In the end who has a good claim on the darn throne won't mean anything. The one who still is alive and still has an army when the dust has settled will be able to march in and seat himself/ herself on that darn chair.

This is why the whole debacle if Aegon is real or if the Lannister kids identity will ever be officially revealed is useless. If they are alive and have an army after the upcoming bloodbath they rule. The throne goes to the Survivor.

[TheLostStark]

True enough

[Obebb]

Perhaps a long while after the dust has settled people will start worrying about claims again. Or maybe not, because I suppose whoever is on the throne in the end would have technically won it by conquest :dunno:

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

So, everyone can agree there's chaos coming. Dany, Cersei, Euron, Aegon, probably other people as well will duke it out in the South. The Others will descend on the North. The death toll will be enormous, and many of the characters we follow will die. In the end who has a good claim on the darn throne won't mean anything. The one who still is alive and still has an army when the dust has settled will be able to march in and seat himself/ herself on that darn chair.

This is why the whole debacle if Aegon is real or if the Lannister kids identity will ever be officially revealed is useless. If they are alive and have an army after the upcoming bloodbath they rule. The throne goes to the Survivor.

If claims, are indeed, "useless", then for what possible reason Cersei tries to pass her kids as Robert's, Varys tries to sell Young Griff as Aegon VI, why a few thousand northmen march on Winterfell to aid "Ned's little girl"?

Pshaw. Claims are "useless" just as much as golds are useless and soldiers are useless. You say "the one who still is alive and still has an army" - guess what: "army" and "claim" aren't independent random variables. One can help you get another.

[Winnief]

Pshaw. Claims are "useless" just as much as golds are useless and soldiers are useless. You say "the one who still is alive and still has an army" - guess what: "army" and "claim" aren't independent random variables. One can help you get another.

:agree:

You do need to have some rational in order to get support. A claim by itself isn't enough, (see Stannis,) but you can't just use gold to 'proclaim' yourself King either, or else LF would have done so by now-he's using Sansa, SR, and HtH precisely because he need the legitimacy their claims give him.

And remember Renly had the best army-but no valid claim which is why Martin, (and a demon smoke baby) killed him.

[Bini]

The timing for revealing the parentage of the Lannister kids and it having significant importance is long ago gone. So much stuff happened after that and so few people actually believed it in time for it to have some strong resurgence.

Aegon's claim, on the other hand, I wouldn't call "useless"...

Claims per se aren't enough, but a "good" claim under the customs and law is very useful to rally more supporters to a cause.

[Bronn Urgandy]

Claims without deeds will very probably mean nothing, which, ironically, is why I think Stannis' star is actually very much on the rise in this regard.

[Don Roberto]

I think OP has a point. Claims are still usefull now, they can still gather some remaining faithful lords to some cause or the other, much like the North is down with the Starks, the Martells with House Targaryen, the vale lord with whoever descends from the Arryn line, and the ironborn would never follow a greenlander (as they probably never had). But those are the regions mostly unaffected by the war, when the shit hits to fan I imagine everybody will turn to whomever can save them from the Others, from dragons, or both.

[Pod The Impaler]

OP is true. People always going on about de jure claims, when it's de facto power that matters, and the laws are written by the winners to condemn the losers.

Even the latter may make little difference as the end times fall upon Westeros.

Whose claim is important? The Great Other, who declares life to be treason and passes sentence on all. Valar morghulis.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Whose claim is important? The Great Other, who declares life to be treason and passes sentence on all. Valar morghulis.

Are we sure about the nature of The Great Other? Perhaps it is R'hllor who declares life to be treason and passes sentence on all. Fire destroys; ice preserves. I haven't seen anyone burned or killed in the name of The Great Other so far.

I see the OP's point. After all of the devastation to come, no one is going to give a damn about bloodlines for a while. They'll want the person who can feed them and keep them safe to rule. When time has passed they will revert to the squabbling that seems to be human nature in times of peace before disaster strikes to unite them again.