Had you expected more from the Vale?

[The Fallen]

` It was slightly disappointing, but it wasnt for lack if trying.

Bronze didn't want to declare FOR Robb, but they did want to fight on his side.

[Chatty Duelist]

My only regret is that Yohn Royce and his band of BMFs didn't take the Eyrie earlier and throw Lysa off the Moon Door, adopt Robert and march on the Scumisters.

And Lysa isn't of the Vale. She had no authority to command the Lords, yes she's the wife of the previous Lord, not that she was a good one. (Good wives seldom murder their husbands for a pathetic little creature.)

[TheReal_Rebel]

Here's what I see happening: Sansa offs Littlefinger somehow and does NOT marry HtH. Notice how she's been getting closer and closer to SR? That will come in handy: she will be able to manipulate him, like Cersei manipulates Tommen, into rubber-stamping whatever she wants. She will reveal herself, and as SR's closest remaining blood relative, be able to assume regency over him. The Knights of the Vale will declare for her, as will the Riverlords. Read through Jaime's chapters in AFFC again- the riverlands are seething with hatred of the Crown and the Freys, and all they need is someone to rally behind in order to raise their banners once more. The flame of revolution will spread, and after Stannis, his Southrons, and the Boltons conveniently kill each other but leave the bulk of their armies intact, well....

All hail Her Grace Sansa of the House Stark, Queen in the North, the Trident, and in the Vale, Queen of Winter, the Andals and the First Men, Lady of the Three Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.

:cool4:

Likes!

[Lee-Sensei]

No it definitely would not. The Vale is talked of as being the second most fertile region in Westeros. I'd guess they can field in the vicinity of 30-40,000 troops in their own right. There's still strength left in the North and Riverlands as well, despite how battered they are.

The Lannisters were literally the FIRST family to start fighting in the war, and have taken probably the most losses overall.

The Tyrells have the most troops, but they're going to be defending their homeland from both the IB, and fAegon & Dorne. The Starks Reborn would have no real quarrel with them, and might actually serve to even further drive a wedge between them and the Lannisters.

It might not occur, but if it did, it'd be quite easy to win.

The IB weren't in the Reach though. They were in the North.

My only regret is that Yohn Royce and his band of BMFs didn't take the Eyrie earlier and throw Lysa off the Moon Door, adopt Robert and march on the Scumisters.

And Lysa isn't of the Vale. She had no authority to command the Lords, yes she's the wife of the previous Lord, not that she was a good one. (Good wives seldom murder their husbands for a pathetic little creature.)

Exactly. The only reason Lysa had power was because she was the mother of their Lord. Just like Cersei. Without her children the Throne would go to Stannis.

[Pod The Rod]

My only regret is that Yohn Royce and his band of BMFs didn't take the Eyrie earlier and throw Lysa off the Moon Door, adopt Robert and march on the Scumisters.

And Lysa isn't of the Vale. She had no authority to command the Lords, yes she's the wife of the previous Lord, not that she was a good one. (Good wives seldom murder their husbands for a pathetic little creature.)

She had as much authority as Cersei did. Which is to say, quite a lot. Like Cersei, she fucked it up, but she still was the rightful power. She was SR's mom and his Regent.

[Pod The Rod]

The IB weren't in the Reach though. They were in the North.

Shield Islands? Euron's campaign?

[Lee-Sensei]

Shield Islands? Euron's campaign?

That came later. In AFFC I believe. We're talking about right after the RW when the IB are still in the North.

[Pod The Rod]

That came later. In AFFC I believe. We're talking about right after the RW when the IB are still in the North.

I'm not. As was evidenced by my post mentioning fAegon, Dorne, and the IB in the Reach.

Clarification: You may have understood my post that mentioned the RW to have meant immediately after that. I actually meant it as further reason to hate Lannisters and be sympathetic to the Stark cause.

[Chatty Duelist]

She had as much authority as Cersei did. Which is to say, quite a lot. Like Cersei, she fucked it up, but she still was the rightful power. She was SR's mom and his Regent.

Actually, Cersei has no legal authority, Robert named Eddard his Lord Regent, Cersei had no right to take the Regency from Eddard. Legally, she's the one who's guilty of high treason, adultery, fornication, incest and murder.

[A Bastard Snow]

The shield Islands are part of the Reach why would they help an ally of the lannisters.My hope is that the vale ends up being taken by the mountain clans.They got more honor then any of the Vale lords we have seen so far especially w/e his name is who is spying for LF and is a pedo

[Pod The Rod]

Actually, Cersei has no legal authority, Robert named Eddard his Lord Regent, Cersei had no right to take the Regency from Eddard. Legally, she's the one who's guilty of high treason, adultery, fornication, incest and murder.

Well, we the reader know that. But the people in universe don't. And it is the usual thing for an underage ruler's mother to be regent.

[Lee-Sensei]

I'm not. As was evidenced by my post mentioning fAegon, Dorne, and the IB in the Reach.

Clarification: You may have understood my post that mentioned the RW to have meant immediately after that. I actually meant it as further reason to hate Lannisters and be sympathetic to the Stark cause.

What makes you think that Robb would still be alive at that point.

[Chatty Duelist]

Well, we the reader know that. But the people in universe don't. And it is the usual thing for an underage ruler's mother to be regent.

They do, Barristan read Robert's will to the entire court. The Lord Regent part not the crimes though.

[Pod The Rod]

What makes you think that Robb would still be alive at that point.

Um, nothing? That's why I brought it up: the heinous crime against God and Nature that was the RW would provide incentive to declare against the Lannisters and for a new Stark (Sansa, Rickon) in the present setting.

They do, Barristan read Robert's will to the entire court. The Lord Regent part not the crimes though.

Then how does Cersei legally justify seizing power? There has to be something, even if it's flimsy as toilet paper. I'm curious.

[Lee-Sensei]

Um, nothing? That's why I brought it up: the heinous crime against God and Nature that was the RW would provide incentive to declare against the Lannisters and for a new Stark (Sansa, Rickon) in the present setting.

Then how does Cersei legally justify seizing power? There has to be something, even if it's flimsy as toilet paper. I'm curious.

Again, there's no reason that the Vale should declare a Stark their King. Why would they? Plus, Walder Frey's taking the blame.

[Pod The Rod]

Again, there's no reason that the Vale should declare a Stark their King. Why would they? Plus, Walder Frey's taking the blame.

No more reason than the Riverlands had. But they did.

Then that could be an interesting plot twist: material surfacing that links the Lannisters provably to the RW.

[Chatty Duelist]

Then how does Cersei legally justify seizing power? There has to be something, even if it's flimsy as toilet paper. I'm curious.

Lies and swords. And her father's gold.

Again, there's no reason that the Vale should declare a Stark their King. Why would they? Plus, Walder Frey's taking the blame.

Robert Arryn, their (nominal) ruler has Tully blood, so does the current Stark generation.

[Lee-Sensei]

No more reason than the Riverlands had. But they did.

Then that could be an interesting plot twist: material surfacing that links the Lannisters provably to the RW.

The River Lords had a very good reason to declare for Robb.

1) He's half Tully.

2) He had just saved them from the Lannisters.

Robb wouldn't be saving the Vale Lords from anything (in fact he'd be dragging them into his war), it would be against orders from their Lord's regent and he is no Arryn.

Robert Arryn, their (nominal) ruler has Tully blood, so does the current Stark generation.

Yeah. Tully blood. Not Arryn blood. That still doesn't explain why they should have a Stark King ruling over them from Winterfell when their culture and traditions are so radically different. The North is for the First Men. The Vale was the landing place of the Andals.

[Valandui]

I think the LDs are much savvier than give them credit for and not nearly as cowed by Littlefinger as you suggest. You say they're quick to accept Baelish's story about Lysa dying. Ever occur that they don't dig too deeply because Lysa being gone actually helps their cause? After all, it was only because of Lysa that they stayed out of the war in the first place.

I still think tze's post about Nestor Royce is one of the best descriptions of this. LF is probaby in for a big surprise once he gets to the Gates of the Moon, hence my Nestor Royce avatar.

[bloodofwinterfell]

I think GRRM kept the Vale out of the war for a reason. The Martells is more obvious - they're going to play a big role in the second Dance of Dragons. We don't know about the Vale, but I hope they're more involved in the war against the Others. They also have a lot of food which might prove useful during winter.