Had you expected more from the Vale?

[khalhotpie]

It doesn't take a genius to know that you shouldn't march North in the middle of Winter.

Itl depend on if they can show evidence of the others and how well she can play to their sense of honour. If she can get them to back her over LF it will prob be by appealing to their sense of honour

[Lee-Sensei]

Itl depend on if they can show evidence of the others and how well she can play to their sense of honour. If she can get them to back her over LF it will prob be by appealing to their sense of honour

I'm not sure what her sense of honor has to do with this. You just don't invade the North in the middle of Winter for a Lord that's not your own.

[Khal Pod]

I think this is also so that there is a whole army still unharmed after the WoFK's (along with the Martells) available for the next war (Dance of Dragons version 2.0)

[Lord Tut]

The vale would have been the preverbal king makers if they sided with Robb or Stannis.

It's odd that lysa did accuse the lannisters having an hand in the death of her husband and not one single person from the vale went along with the blackfish or joined him later during the war.

[Lee-Sensei]

The vale would have been the preverbal king makers if they sided with Robb or Stannis.

It's odd that lysa did accuse the lannisters having an hand in the death of her husband and not one single person from the vale went along with the blackfish or joined him later during the war.

It's not that odd. Lsa is the regent for their Lord. They follow orders.

[Ser Stefan]

The vale would have been the preverbal king makers if they sided with Robb or Stannis.

It's odd that lysa did accuse the lannisters having an hand in the death of her husband and not one single person from the vale went along with the blackfish or joined him later during the war.

Wait she didn't actually accuse them outright, right? She only suspected it and kind of hinted at it when Tyrion was on trial (the 1st time), I may be wrong tho.. And with either Sansa or Littlefinger soon becoming the Lord Paramount, who do you see them declaring for if they do?

[Roddy the Ruin]

Yes I've been disappointed by them. I was hoping Lysa would do the right thing and help her family during a war she played a part in starting. But after the RW, I was hoping the vale would side with Stannis, but no cigar.

[Jasta11]

I expected the Lords Declarant to be akin to Robb's bannermen. A group of varied and generally likeable people who have some competence at what they're doing.

Instead, we got the woefully stupid and incompetent ones fooled by Littlefinger, and the competent yet corrupt ones bought by Baelish, and after one chapter they're basically out of the way. For the supposed most honorable and loyal folks on Westeros, they're awfully quick to accept that their late lord's wife died in very fishy circumstances and trust LF regardless.

At this point I just hope Sansa finally, finally rids us of Littlefinger and puts the place to good use.

[Lee-Sensei]

Wait she didn't actually accuse them outright, right? She only suspected it and kind of hinted at it when Tyrion was on trial (the 1st time), I may be wrong tho.. And with either Sansa or Littlefinger soon becoming the Lord Paramount, who do you see them declaring for if they do?

She openly accused Tyrion of killing Jon Arryn.

Sansa or Littlefinger will never be the Lord Paramount of the Vale. The best they can hope for is having influence over the actual LP of the Vale, whether it's SR or Harry the Heir.

I expected the Lords Declarant to be akin to Robb's bannermen. A group of varied and generally likeable people who have some competence at what they're doing.

Instead, we got the woefully stupid and incompetent ones fooled by Littlefinger, and the competent yet corrupt ones bought by Baelish, and after one chapter they're basically out of the way. For the supposed most honorable and loyal folks on Westeros, they're awfully quick to accept that their late lord's wife died in very fishy circumstances and trust LF regardless.

At this point I just hope Sansa finally, finally rids us of Littlefinger and puts the place to good use.

To be fair, the North's bannerman aren't much better in the intelligence department and they're up against one of the smartest characters in the series.

[Pod The Rod]

Here's what I see happening: Sansa offs Littlefinger somehow and does NOT marry HtH. Notice how she's been getting closer and closer to SR? That will come in handy: she will be able to manipulate him, like Cersei manipulates Tommen, into rubber-stamping whatever she wants. She will reveal herself, and as SR's closest remaining blood relative, be able to assume regency over him. The Knights of the Vale will declare for her, as will the Riverlords. Read through Jaime's chapters in AFFC again- the riverlands are seething with hatred of the Crown and the Freys, and all they need is someone to rally behind in order to raise their banners once more. The flame of revolution will spread, and after Stannis, his Southrons, and the Boltons conveniently kill each other but leave the bulk of their armies intact, well....

All hail Her Grace Sansa of the House Stark, Queen in the North, the Trident, and in the Vale, Queen of Winter, the Andals and the First Men, Lady of the Three Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.

:cool4:

[Good Guy Garlan]

From an in-universe perspective, yeah, I expected them to join Robb or at least "avenge" Jon Arryn, if only so that little bit of trickery from LF would come back and bite him in the ass.

But I also understand that GRRM was keeping some regions intact so they could be unleashed later and make a difference in the next big war. I do expected Lysa's death to kick them into action for real. Instead we see how LF is getting all the vale lords in his pocket (so long for their supposed honor).

I just hope they play a big role in WoW it's all

[Boarsbane]

Here's what I see happening: Sansa offs Littlefinger somehow and does NOT marry HtH. Notice how she's been getting closer and closer to SR? That will come in handy: she will be able to manipulate him, like Cersei manipulates Tommen, into rubber-stamping whatever she wants. She will reveal herself, and as SR's closest remaining blood relative, be able to assume regency over him. The Knights of the Vale will declare for her, as will the Riverlords. Read through Jaime's chapters in AFFC again- the riverlands are seething with hatred of the Crown and the Freys, and all they need is someone to rally behind in order to raise their banners once more. The flame of revolution will spread, and after Stannis, his Southrons, and the Boltons conveniently kill each other but leave the bulk of their armies intact, well....

All hail Her Grace Sansa of the House Stark, Queen in the North, the Trident, and in the Vale, Queen of Winter, the Andals and the First Men, Lady of the Three Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.

:cool4:

She is too young for the lords of the Vale to ever let her have regency over Robert. If Littlefinger dies it doesn't matter what influence Sansa has over SR, Yohn Royce or another powerful Vale lord is going to take him and declare himself SR's regent.

[Pod The Rod]

She is too young for the lords of the Vale to ever let her have regency over Robert. If Littlefinger dies it doesn't matter what influence Sansa has over SR, Yohn Royce or another powerful Vale lord is going to take him and declare himself SR's regent.

You're probably right. That doesn't mean I can't headcanon my scenario until proven wrong.

As I recall, wasn't Bronze Yohn the one putting pressure on Lysa to declare for Robb? You think there's any possibility they might declare her QitN & QitV?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Instead, we got the woefully stupid and incompetent ones fooled by Littlefinger, and the competent yet corrupt ones bought by Baelish, and after one chapter they're basically out of the way. For the supposed most honorable and loyal folks on Westeros, they're awfully quick to accept that their late lord's wife died in very fishy circumstances and trust LF regardless.

I think the LDs are much savvier than give them credit for and not nearly as cowed by Littlefinger as you suggest. You say they're quick to accept Baelish's story about Lysa dying. Ever occur that they don't dig too deeply because Lysa being gone actually helps their cause? After all, it was only because of Lysa that they stayed out of the war in the first place.

[Lee-Sensei]

You're probably right. That doesn't mean I can't headcanon my scenario until proven wrong.

As I recall, wasn't Bronze Yohn the one putting pressure on Lysa to declare for Robb? You think there's any possibility they might declare her QitN & QitV?

Bronze Yohn was pressuring Lysa to go to war with the Lannisters for "killing" Jon Arryn. I don't think he ever mentioned wanting Robb to be his King.

[Pod The Rod]

Bronze Yohn was pressuring Lysa to go to war with the Lannisters for "killing" Jon Arryn. I don't think he ever mentioned wanting Robb to be his King.

But that was before the RW and all the other Lannister perfidy that has happened since then.

I don't know, I'm just trying to keep this alive.

[Lee-Sensei]

But that was before the RW and all the other Lannister perfidy that has happened since then.

I don't know, I'm just trying to keep this alive.

I just don't think he ever mentioned wanting Robb to be his King. Especially since Robb died at the RW and going to war when the Baratheons, Tullys and Starks are already dead against the Lannisters and Tyrells would be a hopeless cause.

[horizon]

With the premises that it is almost impossible to take the castle in the Vale by ground a swooping dragon attack at high altitudes would make a cool scene.

[Pod The Rod]

I just don't think he ever mentioned wanting Robb to be his King. Especially since Robb died at the RW and going to war when the Baratheons, Tullys and Tullys are already dead against the Lannisters and Tyrells would be a hopeless cause.

No it definitely would not. The Vale is talked of as being the second most fertile region in Westeros. I'd guess they can field in the vicinity of 30-40,000 troops in their own right. There's still strength left in the North and Riverlands as well, despite how battered they are.

The Lannisters were literally the FIRST family to start fighting in the war, and have taken probably the most losses overall.

The Tyrells have the most troops, but they're going to be defending their homeland from both the IB, and fAegon & Dorne. The Starks Reborn would have no real quarrel with them, and might actually serve to even further drive a wedge between them and the Lannisters.

It might not occur, but if it did, it'd be quite easy to win.

[HouseHarrison]

Not every country needs to be a huge player and see massive battles. I do suspect the Vale will get its reckoning though once LF's world comes crashing down.