[Book Spoilers] R+L=J and other theories on HBO

[Seneti]

Cersei dismissed Barristan as being useful to Dany at all, Does she have like a problem admitting anyone else besides herself has some worth or valor? I think coming up we will see just how wrong she is about him.

Varys stated that Jorah is no longer informing on Dany, that must be a hint that Dany herself will find out very soon, especially since the last episode she was clearly depending on him above all others. This will be a huge huge blow to her and her comfort level, it may even be what springs her into a relationship with Daario, like he will be there to console her or something.

Dany's dragon only ate a sheep on the show, no kids yet, lets see if that changes. (loved that giant shot of Drogon though, makes it all worth it to me:) :):)

So on the show they specifically pointed out that some of the Great Master's that Dany executed did vote against crucifying the children. I don't think they would have showed that if it were not important. Personally I still feel like they needed to be taught a lesson. Sure some of them did not vote for it, however they are all members of the same council, a council which decided to crucify the 163 children. Which means that at least majority vote was in favor to do it, so the GM's who voted against the crucifixtion should have talked louder, they should have spoken up and swayed the council to do the right thing, or they should have left the council. They all knew Dany was marching towards them, and it was a very stupid way to provoke her. I really dont feel bad for any of them, I mean it was a terrible thing to do, and they started it. Dany did act very strongly and violently but still, they started it.

Yeah, Cersei is not the brightest copper in the bag. Her entire chapters in FEAST are one bad decision after the other, most of them fueled by her inflated ego that makes her believe that she's the only one capable of doing things right.

As for Dany Jorah, I think that letter that Tywin was about to start writing in episode 6 will go straight to Dany, setting up Jorah's exile. We all know what happened last time Tywin wrote a letter... :crying:

Concerning the sheep: I think they specifically included that scene with the reveal of the goat bones to set up the scene in ep. 10 when another goat herder is going to present Hazzea's bones, making everyone realize that the dragons have started eating humans as well. It will certainly make for a strong visual callback.

Speaking of callbacks: I am very happy that the show took the time to point out the flaw in Dany's random "answer injustice with justice campaign", even if Hizdahr may have been lying. Indiscriminate punishment is not justice, it's revenge. Either execute the people who supported the decision (requires that you make the effort to sort them out) or execute all of them. Otherwise you're just going to end up with a bunch of angry, hateful survivors who want your head on a spike.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

First time for everything...plus, I think after ADWD GRRM is done introducing any more people with even a speck of Targaryen blood. It remains to be seen how he resolves Aegon with Daenerys.

I see. But I cannot understand how Jon's role was only to introduce the Night's Watch. For me that is plain silly.

[heavenlyrose]

I think Varys works for the Iron Bank. One only has to look at everything from the corporate prospective of the bank to make this theory feasible.

If the IB were lending the crown of Westeros large sums of gold, the institution would want someone constantly supervising their investments and ensuring continuing repayment. This would also make sense as to why Varys always says he's serving the realm. In Varys' opinion a stable realm is a realm that can pay its debts. But since the current ruler (Tywin Lannister) has decided to stop paying the Iron Bank, it makes sense for the Iron Bank to want to diversify and invest in Stannis's claim. They will put whoever in power that will make them the most money. They will remove those that don't pay them. Varys is trying to hold the whole thing together as his head will probably be on the chopping block if the realm goes bust and never pays the bank back.

It's possible Littlefinger also works for the Iron Bank. Maybe in a more aggressive branch than Varys, haha. His ability to raise large sums of money suggests a connection to the bank and it's probably him who was convincing the bank to lend extra, riskier sums to Robert (to pay for his parties and whoring) and then the Lannisters when Joff and Cersei were burning through cash. Additionally, once the line of power became challenged, Littlefinger presented this to the Bank as an opportunity to take control of Westeros. Corporate raider style. The Iron Bank then gets to put whoever they want on the Iron Throne (hmmm interesting parallel). Littlefinger will obviously gain much if he orchestrates this takeover successfully. If he fails all the bank loses is the money they invested in his schemes, which is probably much less than the money owed to them by the realm.

The role of the Tyrells is more or less co-signing on the loan that Littlefinger negotiated. In the form of actual gold and also troops/food.

[sj4iy]

Yeah, Cersei is not the brightest copper in the bag. Her entire chapters in FEAST are one bad decision after the other, most of them fueled by her inflated ego that makes her believe that she's the only one capable of doing things right.

As for Dany Jorah, I think that letter that Tywin was about to start writing in episode 6 will go straight to Dany, setting up Jorah's exile. We all know what happened last time Tywin wrote a letter... :crying:

Concerning the sheep: I think they specifically included that scene with the reveal of the goat bones to set up the scene in ep. 10 when another goat herder is going to present Hazzea's bones, making everyone realize that the dragons have started eating humans as well. It will certainly make for a strong visual callback.

Speaking of callbacks: I am very happy that the show took the time to point out the flaw in Dany's random "answer injustice with justice campaign", even if Hizdahr may have been lying. Indiscriminate punishment is not justice, it's revenge. Either execute the people who supported the decision (requires that you make the effort to sort them out) or execute all of them. Otherwise you're just going to end up with a bunch of angry, hateful survivors who want your head on a spike.

I was incredibly happy that they mentioned that. You could see how defensive she got when she realized that she did something pretty stupid. It definitely sets up an interesting dynamic.

[Ygrain]

I am actually starting to think the same as you. That drogon didnt actually go after someones child. I think it was a ploy to make Dany look bad and to get money from her. If she is paying triple for the costs of sheep, then how much would she pay for someones child? A hefty amount. And where is there any other evidence of Drogon eating people? He lands int he pit to roast and eat a hog. In the last DwD chapter he eats a horse even if there are people right there for him to eat. I'm not saying he will never kill a person, but from what I can tell he prefers to eat game animals when hungry, his first instinct is not to eat people. And why would he eat a tiny human child who has next to no meat on him when there are fat sheep around? It just makes no sense.

I'm on the fence with this one. I think it might have been an accident, with Hazzea getting hit along with some sheep, the same way that Drogon later roasted the boar along with Barsena's body and feasted on both. On the other hand, Dany has already showed weakness towards children which basically begs to be exploited.

[Honey Bee]

The link is here: http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

There's also this excerpt from Ned's fever dream about the Tower of Joy to consider.

“I looked for you on the Trident,” Ned said to them.

“We were not there,” Ser Gerold answered.

“Woe to the Usurper if we had been,” said Ser Oswell.

“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”

“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”

“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”

“Our knees do not bend easily,” said Ser Arthur Dayne.

“Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.”

“Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell.

“But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.”

“Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.

“We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold.

Ned’s wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.

“And now it begins,” said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

“No,” Ned said with sadness in his voice. “Now it ends.”

That bolded passage is what really convinced me when I read the books looking for evidence of Jon's legitimate status. Either Hightower, Dayne, and Whent loved Rhaegar so much that they were willing to honor his last command at the expense of their oath - or they genuinely believed that they were protecting the heir to the Iron Throne.

To direct this conversation back to the TV show, however, I don't believe that the true nature of Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship and Jon's status will be explicitly revealed for at least another season or two. At this point in the narrative, that information is extraneous, and not particularly relevant to the present conflicts in which the audience is currently invested. Benioff and Weiss likely want the reveal to have the maximum possible impact, and that won't be until the endgame of the series is within sight - late in Season 6 or early in Season 7, most likely.

When the time comes, the general consensus seems to be that the show will use Bran's abilities - specifically his visions of the past, to introduce the saga of Rhaegar and Lyanna (this will also have the benefit of fleshing out Bran's storyline, which is otherwise likely to be sparse). Howland Reed and/or Wylla could also be introduced as needed, but seeing as they haven't been seen in the books yet, it's hard to predict when or how they might appear.

This. All of it.

In S04E02 Oberyn stated that Doran couldn't attend the wedding because he had 'Rich man disease' then says to Tywin "It's a wonder you don't have it"

Bronn also said to Jaime "your brother told me you shit gold, the same as your father."

Rich man disease sounds like a mockery of Tywin's fate.

I thought Rich Mans Disease was gout?

Off the top of my head, I think the show has confirmed a few theories

- Margaery is not a virgin

How did the show prove Marg isn't a virgin? I must've missed this.

Yeah, I wonder how they'll handle the Sandor thing, with him being like the ultimate fan favorite and all

I didn't realize he was a fan favorite?!

[sj4iy]

This. All of it.

Agreed. It pretty much confirms that Jon's the rightful heir and not a bastard.

I thought Rich Mans Disease was gout?

Yeah, I don't get what they are saying here, either, unless they mean that Tywin's fate is that he shits in the end. But I doubt that it was intended that way when it was written.

How did the show prove Marg isn't a virgin? I must've missed this.

She makes several remarks to Renly about having sex- it's pretty clear she's experienced in that area. She's too forward and blunt about it not to be.

I didn't realize he was a fan favorite?!

Arya and the Hound are probably two of the most beloved characters right now in the show. He's a badass and she's learning to be...it makes for a great dynamic. It will be interesting to see how people take it once she leaves him.

[Honey Bee]

Agreed. It pretty much confirms that Jon's the rightful heir and not a bastard.

truly this individual has a grasp on the book/show dynamic and it's hard to find... Cheers.

Yeah, I don't get what they are saying here, either, unless they mean that Tywin's fate is that he shits in the end. But I doubt that it was intended that way when it was written.

yea, it's just a saying. He's so rich he shits gold. But that's not a rich mans disease.

She makes several remarks to Renly about having sex- it's pretty clear she's experienced in that area. She's too forward and blunt about it not to be.

I guess you're right in that sense but I think most women are able to manipulate, flirt, and use their feminine powers without being experienced in bed... That's just me. The only thing that made me question her "innocence" was in First of His Name, when she got past the guards and into Tommen's room.. I was curious how? A few words and a bat of an eyelash wouldn't make me disobey nut bag Cersei...

Arya and the Hound are probably two of the most beloved characters right now in the show. He's a badass and she's learning to be...it makes for a great dynamic. It will be interesting to see how people take it once she leaves him.

Yes we know how that story goes... The Hound is my favorite character, since book one, season one.. Through it all. I always thought Danny, Jon, Ned, and Robb were front runners. Cool.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

They are saying that gout comes from a decadent lifestyle. Tywin is saying that even though he is super rich he did not indulge himself the same way Doran has during his life, that's why Tywin is still so healthy.