Targ loyalist Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Guys grow up,this is just a book forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rex Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Guys grow up,this is just a book forum! Your right of course, actually your post reminded me of the tom petty song i listened to right before a high school fight "I wont back down", and I only mention this because a thought occured to me: the lirics are, "you can stand me up at the gates of hell, but I wont back down" now at the time it seemed appropriate because I not only had to focus on beating the shit out of the kid I was fighting, but more importantly avoiding the knock out punch from a much more serious threat who I knew was going to make an attempt to knock me out... but I'm digressing, while I DO enjoy sparring physically, mentally whatever because I think conflict hones ones strengths and detracts ones weaknesses, I gotta say, what strikes me is, "the gates of hell dont seem like an ideal place to loiter" like if I found myself in that situation, I'm battering down the gate, killing some demon lords and slaughtering my way to the devil then rolling the dice and see if I can kill the lord of hell, I'm not saying my chances would be very good, but I happen to think it's better to go on the offensive than waiting around to be taken captive, and seriously if you kill some demon lords enroute to getting at the devil that's DEF gotta earn you a rather exaulted position in the after life, wouldn't you agree? Now back to the topic, Mormont: The reason I can say those things are fact, is because I can play out the scenerio in which Robb could have successfully conducted his campaign in the manner in which I laid out. Additionally, you can ask Morgoth if you don't believe me, but at this particular point in the story if I was in Petyr's position I could win more than half the realm and I could even expand it to becoming Prince Consort --> King from Petyr's position (though from a personal stand point I don't think I'd be capable of doing all that would be required to achieve it, but Petyr {whose posioning his own son - little lord robert} surely could and probably will). When you say I'm just spinning this stuff out of thin air, it agitates me because I'm not, GRRM is a master chess player, it's what helps him be able to keep all this crazy westerosi world in order. am "I" an expert chess player, no, but I'm really rather good, and that's not an idle boast. I've read Caesar, Machievelli, Sun Tzu (although it wasn't as in depth as one might think, additionally it's 1st premise is inaccurate, deception ISN'T the 1st rule of war, the 1st rule of war is there ARE no rules in war, deception is the most important employable tactic) histories on Alexander, Caesar, Ghengis, Henry II, and even John of Gaunt - specifically because he was an unsuccessful general after the black prince had taken ill. I'll start a topic "how petyr can become king" some time before monday, but what I'd like you to do is ask yourself if GRRM has created a logical world. I don't see Mel all of a sudden springing up with super-natural powers, and I dont see GRRM doing a plot twist any more drastic than reintroducing a Blackfyre princling WHICH wouldn't be out of thin air because there's certainly been prep work done vaguely in the series more so in the dunk and egg novela's and the 3rd installment could very well set up the coming of ADWD... My problem with your criticisms is that you're nitpicking on a technicality, and it's not as if I'm saying anything illogical or "unsupported" by textual evidence, but you want me to specifically denote quotes from logical conclusions, listen to Mister Manticore, your approach will never work, the tactics youre trying to employ wont be successful and WORST OF ALL you side track an interesting conversation trying to curtail my behavior when you'd be better off offering YOUR insight and opinions, you're not gonna change me, but if you'd take off your moderator hat and just be a fan I'd really like to know what you THINK we've obviously all READ the books, insights are far more interesting than quotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgoth Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 One doesn't need to be Nostradamus to predict your actions, Rex. so then there's no need for a cup of wine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rex Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 One doesn't need to be Nostradamus to predict your actions, Rex. took that comment a bit seriously did we? so then there's no need for a cup of wine? oh, I'm not one to advise forgoing boozing, shit after I spiff it up a bit I'll even send you the opening chapter of the book I'm working on just in case you go into Red Rex withdrawal but as mormont observed earlier and I confirmed my writing style is by neccessity far more disciplined and in all fairness you cant teall get into the story without reading the first 5 chapters to get a handle of the world you're entering... Mormont, In all fairness, ALL authors have editors to fix their grammatical faux pas and mispellings. rex doesn't have that luxury. They also repair run-on sentences and fragments. haha thanks Morgoth, gotta admit, I never bothered to learn grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgoth Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 took that comment a bit seriously did we? oh, I'm not one to advise forgoing boozing, shit after I spiff it up a bit I'll even send you the opening chapter of the book I'm working on just in case you go into Red Rex withdrawal but as mormont observed earlier and I confirmed my writing style is by neccessity far more disciplined and in all fairness you cant teall get into the story without reading the first 5 chapters to get a handle of the world you're entering... I'll admit that I really don't know enough about this topic to really comment either way. I would love to but I find that I'm not that interested in dany's character so i tend to not pay as much attention as i should. that's why i'm really just reading these posts and not really adding anything to the discussion. haha thanks Morgoth, gotta admit, I never bothered to learn grammar i was just being fair. i didn't think it was a fair thing for mormont to say. everyone mispells things on these boards unless they're only adding 'one-liners.' to call someone out for that is a pretty 'low' thing to do...at least in my opinion which i am entitled to have mind you. mormont, i'm not picking a fight with you. i'm just voicing my opinion on the matter. let's get back to the topic at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rex Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 i was just being fair. i didn't think it was a fair thing for mormont to say. everyone mispells things on these boards unless they're only adding 'one-liners.' to call someone out for that is a pretty 'low' thing to do...at least in my opinion which i am entitled to have mind you. mormont, i'm not picking a fight with you. i'm just voicing my opinion on the matter. let's get back to the topic at hand. well ty Morgoth, I happen to agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgoth Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 well ty Morgoth, I happen to agree I have to say that you do come up with some crazy theories and you do leave yourself open for attacks by other boarders. Some of the shit that you get from people...you do bring on yourself. Like I said before...I'm just being fair. I have no problems with anybody on the boards but I do remember a time when I did. Now, I am going to bow out and let the discussion continue. Sorry for hijacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 morgoth, now don't be silly. You know the difference between an occasional misspelling and being too lazy to check your posts or even think about whether they're comprehensible before hitting 'Add Reply'. The former is an honest mistake, but there is simply no excuse for the latter. It's symptomatic of RR's whole attitude. It's not about communicating with others: it's about self-congratulation. My advice to people who behave like that on the boards is always the same: get a blog or something, don't hijack a public forum to stroke your own ego. RR, sometimes I wonder whether the act is you winding us up, instead of you dealing with some sort of personal issues. But of one thing I have no doubt: it's an act. And this board is not the place to act out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I've diagnosed it as Internet Tough Guy syndrome, characterized by frequent outbreaks of Virtual Cock Waggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ealasaid Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 AH. Those of us close to law enforcement call it Weinie Wagging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgoth Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 morgoth, now don't be silly. You know the difference between an occasional misspelling and being too lazy to check your posts or even think about whether they're comprehensible before hitting 'Add Reply'. The former is an honest mistake, but there is simply no excuse for the latter. It's symptomatic of RR's whole attitude. It's not about communicating with others: it's about self-congratulation. My advice to people who behave like that on the boards is always the same: get a blog or something, don't hijack a public forum to stroke your own ego. RR, sometimes I wonder whether the act is you winding us up, instead of you dealing with some sort of personal issues. But of one thing I have no doubt: it's an act. And this board is not the place to act out. ok. maybe i was being a bit silly and overdramatizing this a bit. I happen to like Red Rex for the simple reason that he entertains me and he appears to be passionate about his views and I find that intriguing and makes me at least read what he says. I'm not saying that I agree with rex. I'm not saying that I am impressed with his bravado. I'm just saying that I enjoy reading his posts. I also enjoy reading dante's as well. I admit that I do tend to skip over Rex's 'ass-kicking experiences.' But on the whole, he is entertainment. Maybe I felt like Rex was getting ganged up on. Like I said...I don't have any problems with anyone and I'm not trying to start one. That's my final 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemrion Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Effective is a relative term. You could fight seabattles and protect strongpoints. But you could not put up blockades or stop invasions. The more sea battles the more likely that Drogo's Army would be reduced making it much easier for the Westerosi Ground troops to win. It’s seems most of his battles have been with other Khalsassars, but that is my point, I don’t know, yet you claim to have knowledge that he is nothing special. RR claimed that he was something special. He could be, he could not be, but he hasn't beaten anyone that is remotely near Westerosi. I won't assume that he is something special Oh, and RR remember that Viserys was already betrothed to Arianne Martrell, you forgot about that one quite conveniently. And you also forget the emnity btwn Dorne and Highgarden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rex Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 RR claimed that he was something special. He could be, he could not be, but he hasn't beaten anyone that is remotely near Westerosi. I won't assume that he is something special ok Drogo lives in a warrior society and he's never been defeated in battle, he's formed the largest khalasar of any Khal, possibly ever, at the time Dany wed him, Drogo was the "most extraordinary" dothraki walking the world, being the pinnacle of an entire society makes someone special in my opinion Oh, and RR remember that Viserys was already betrothed to Arianne Martrell, you forgot about that one quite conveniently. And you also forget the emnity btwn Dorne and Highgarden. no I didn't forget that Doran planned to marry Viserys to Arianne, I just get the impression that Viserys never valued anyone more than himself and if the Tyrells were offering an army of 100,000 and Dorne 20,000 Viserys would have reneged on his betrothal or killed Arianne to clear the way for Marg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemrion Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 ok Drogo lives in a warrior society and he's never been defeated in battle, he's formed the largest khalasar of any Khal, possibly ever, at the time Dany wed him, Drogo was the "most extraordinary" dothraki walking the world, being the pinnacle of an entire society makes someone special in my opinion You realise that being the pinnacle of an entire society may make him special in that society but only mediocre in other societies if we transplanted them there. no I didn't forget that Doran planned to marry Viserys to Arianne, I just get the impression that Viserys never valued anyone more than himself and if the Tyrells were offering an army of 100,000 and Dorne 20,000 Viserys would have reneged on his betrothal or killed Arianne to clear the way for Marg... LOL, and turn Dorne against him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enguerrand Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 The more sea battles the more likely that Drogo's Army would be reduced making it much easier for the Westerosi Ground troops to win. Did I explain it that poorly? During the middle ages it was all but impossible to corner a large force at open sea, both because the sea is large, the endurance of the ships were pitiful, and their manuverability extremely limited. In order to give battle you have to concentrate your ships, which limits your ability to find the enemy. The sea battles that was fought was when the aggressor attacked a strongpoint that the enemy had to defend. Westeros have ten of thousands miles of coast unless Drogo choose to move directly on King’s landing there should be virtually no chance that the 40000 dothraki would encounter any ships able to slow them down. At least if the westerosi ships corresponds to their medieval counterparts. RR claimed that he was something special. He could be, he could not be, but he hasn't beaten anyone that is remotely near Westerosi. I won't assume that he is something special Drogo is the son of khal, but a khal only has the authority he can impose. The fact that he has assembled the largest khalassar ever, suggests that he is an extraordinarily leader figure. so in as much as Dothraki can be special(and in the east they seem to be the benchmark for military might). Drogo certainly is it. And you also forget the emnity btwn Dorne and Highgarden. Which didn't stop them from opposing the rebels together in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rex Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 You realise that being the pinnacle of an entire society may make him special in that society but only mediocre in other societies if we transplanted them there. Drogo was taller than Jorah Mormont and more physically imposing, he hunted down a snow lion (Robert missed the boar), your view is ethnocentric in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loras Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I don't think that Dany will be dying any time soon. I'm NOT a Dany fan - I think though, that I don't like Dany because she broke up the story and I was less willing to give her a chance. I can't wait for the Dany in Meereen chapters, because she is going to be the focus of the next book (with the most chapters) and she isn't on one epic travelogue - i.e a new location every chapter. I want to see her come up against the "Sons Of The Harpy" and see how she copes... I want to see her lose some companions - I don't want Dany to feel 'safe' anymore. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemrion Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Westeros have ten of thousands miles of coast unless Drogo choose to move directly on King’s landing there should be virtually no chance that the 40000 dothraki would encounter any ships able to slow them down. At least if the westerosi ships corresponds to their medieval counterparts. But then how else are the Redwyne fleet supposed to fight the Iron Fleet in the past? Or now that Dragonstone has fallen? Either there aren't many landing points on the Westerosi coast to patrol or that Westerosi ships are more than you give them credit for. Drogo is the son of khal, but a khal only has the authority he can impose. The fact that he has assembled the largest khalassar ever, suggests that he is an extraordinarily leader figure. so in as much as Dothraki can be special(and in the east they seem to be the benchmark for military might). Drogo certainly is it. Again I ask the question who is there that is in the East?? Which didn't stop them from opposing the rebels together in the war. But there is much more at stake now, it's a decision as to who will wield the power behind the throne. The stakes are a lot higher, and certainly the QoT and possible Doran would think long and hard about getting into bed with one another (not meant to be taken literally). Drogo was taller than Jorah Mormont and more physically imposing, he hunted down a snow lion (Robert missed the boar), your view is ethnocentric in my opinion Goliath was taller than David big whoop. And by the way I'm not ethnocentric (I could even flame you if I really cared to, but since you've been flamed by Mods already, I'll hold back - but accept the fact that I'm not ethnocentric against Drogo). Drogo could be a great leader, but he has not shown it in the books at all, mainly because he's dead. And he died because of his own stupidity as well (or maybe it was Dany's). You can't deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rex Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I don't think that Dany will be dying any time soon. I'm NOT a Dany fan - I think though, that I don't like Dany because she broke up the story and I was less willing to give her a chance. Now I AM a Dany fan, but I think that this is a very valid argument, I initially dreaded the Dany chapters, but that was long before Brienne got her own chapters which rank just above getting my wisdom teeth out (atleast you get peraceds to nurse you though the rough times there) but I have always liked Dany's character in large part because she flipped the script on her primary tormentor that being Viserys... I can't wait for the Dany in Meereen chapters, because she is going to be the focus of the next book (with the most chapters) and she isn't on one epic travelogue - i.e a new location every chapter. I want to see her come up against the "Sons Of The Harpy" and see how she copes... I want to see her lose some companions - I don't want Dany to feel 'safe' anymore. safety is never anything more than an illusion, having lived the life she has however I doubt that another bout of adversity will have a debilitating affect on her, shit her whole objective is to get a well trained disciplined army to the shores of westeros to fight a war for the Iron Throne, depending on her dragons the outcome might "appear to be a forgone conclusion" BUT it only takes one faceless man in the kitchens the remove the dragons head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rex Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Drogo could be a great leader, but he has not shown it in the books at all, mainly because he's dead. And he died because of his own stupidity as well (or maybe it was Dany's). You can't deny that. Drogo's army destroyed that army of another Khal, that alone should be evidence of military skill/cunning... yes he was brought low by Dany's foolish compassion for a conquerord enemy, when you consider that Drogo was initially opposed to being treated by the woman, it shows Drogo's failing was loving his wife too much and acceeding to her will, and not having a jaded perspective. Look I can't tell you what Drogo coulda or woulda done had he survived I can only tell you that Drogo had all the makings for achieving GREATNESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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