explaining the Daenerys odium

[Starspear]

OMG this is the opposite of what I think.

She has unreal ramifications for her actions and words. Far more so than any other character (besides the ones that have died, like Robb and Ned).

1. Her husband grows ill, and she has to kill him herself, all because he trusted her advice/decision.

2. She has to lock her children up because she fails to train them.

3. She is forced to marry Hizdahr because of her poor choices

4. She has an insurrection and has the whole country side against her because she tries to force her ideals on her people

5. She has to watch the people she freed starve and die by the bloody flex, all because she invisioned something she could not deliver

6. She was sold to her husband as basically a sex slave

Oh the author has been soo easy on her. :dunno:

1. No she doesn't have to kill him herself. She chooses to "put him out of his misery." How kind. She could have looked for a cure, but I digress.

2. No she doesn't have to lock her "children." She does so to avoid the hassle of training them.

3. No she is not forced to marry Hizdahr. Again her choice.

4. So why is she staying? Is she entitled to rule them?

5. ... I don't know what to say regarding #5 ...

6. This is true... but as a sex slave? Nah, they had a wedding. And he treated her like his Queen. Maybe you can make an argument that Dothraki are barbaric. Furthermore, she accepts her position and role, even after his death. And continues to be Khaleesi...

[Carey Snow]

1. No she doesn't have to kill him herself. She chooses to "put him out of his misery." How kind. She could have looked for a cure, but I digress.

Ok, this is realistic? She is in the middle of the Dothraki Sea and she is going to hop on Silver and go looking for a cure?

[Carey Snow]

2. No she doesn't have to lock her "children." She does so to avoid the hassle of training them.

No, she does so because an innocent child was eaten and she is forced to. She does not do it because she is to lazy to train them in the future. She does not know what to do.

[Jasta11]

OMG this is the opposite of what I think.

She has unreal ramifications for her actions and words. Far more so than any other character (besides the ones that have died, like Robb and Ned).

1. Her husband grows ill, and she has to kill him herself, all because he trusted her advice/decision.

2. She has to lock her children up because she fails to train them.

3. She is forced to marry Hizdahr because of her poor choices

4. She has an insurrection and has the whole country side against her because she tries to force her ideals on her people

5. She has to watch the people she freed starve and die by the bloody flex, all because she invisioned something she could not deliver

6. She was sold to her husband as basically a sex slave

Oh the author has been soo easy on her. :dunno:

Many other characers suffer similar hardships (more personal ones that affect less people, but still). Difference is Cat didn't find three dragons in Ned's bones.

[Starspear]

Look, I'm not going to argue with you. You seem to be of the opinion that the only options available are those that "character" thinks they have.

But yes... she could have decided otherwise. I.e. "I will put my Khal on a horse. Find the closest city. Find another mage/sorcerer. Cure him. Then together we rebuild a khal from scratch, then conquer the world, etc.". She took the easy way out.

[Carey Snow]

1. No she doesn't have to kill him herself. She chooses to "put him out of his misery." How kind. She could have looked for a cure, but I digress. Ok, this is realistic? She is in the middle of the Dothraki Sea and she is going to hop on Silver and go looking for a cure?

2. No she doesn't have to lock her "children." She does so to avoid the hassle of training them. No, she does so because an innocent child was eaten and she is forced to. She does not do it because she is to lazy to train them in the future. She does it as a ramification of her earlirer decision not to train them.

3. No she is not forced to marry Hizdahr. Again her choice. Dany is forced into the marriage by her decisions. She either marries him or has to leave. Not much of a choice for a ruler.

4. So why is she staying? Is she entitled to rule them? She is trying to build a peace for the people in Meereen, the Astapors died because of her decisions. Again ramifications from the author.

5. ... I don't know what to say regarding #5 ...

6. This is true... but as a sex slave? Nah, they had a wedding. And he treated her like his Queen. Maybe you can make an argument that Dothraki are barbaric. Furthermore, she accepts her position and role, even after his death. And continues to be Khaleesi...

[Starspear]

No, she does so because an innocent child was eaten and she is forced to. She does not do it because she is to lazy to train them in the future. She does not know what to do.

Correct.

[Carey Snow]

Correct.

But she gets ramifications from the author for that.

[Dustdevil]

I never thought that the current Dany hate is because of her plot protection, which she doesn't have imo. I think it's mainly because her story is going NOWHERE atm and that she should be heading for Westeros where she belongs instead of in Slaver's Bay. That's the main thing everyone is waiting for, for Dany to go to Westeros and reak havoc with her dragons. But instead, GRRM is unnecessarily prolonging her story, which is why I grew very bored with her ADWD chapters very quickly.

I find it also hard to say she has plot protection at this point when she could very well die before the end of the series, maybe even in the next DotD 2.0, as we all know what happened to Rhaenyra when she wanted to claim her birthright against an Aegon who stole it from her.

[Starspear]

But she gets ramifications from the author for that.

She does... but inherent in the first post is the fact that the author creates an extremely unforgiving reality in his world. The ramifications of errors are cruel and ruthless for most characters.

But less so with Daenerys. Her ramifications often involve others paying the price.

Some claim a Day of Reckoning is upon her. We'll have to wait and see.

[A Bastard Snow]

I never thought that the current Dany hate is because of her plot protection, which she doesn't have imo. I think it's mainly because her story is going NOWHERE atm and that she should be heading for Westeros where she belongs instead of in Slaver's Bay. That's the main thing everyone is waiting for, for Dany to go to Westeros and reak havoc with her dragons. But instead, GRRM is unnecessarily prolonging her story, which is why I grew very bored with her ADWD chapters very quickly.

I find it also hard to say she has plot protection at this point when she could very well die before the end of the series, maybe even in the next DotD 2.0, as we all know what happened to Rhaenyra when she wanted to claim her birthright against an Aegon who stole it from her.

She has pretty damn good plot protection.

Robb sends Theon home:Winterfell invaded everyone killed (brothers killed but not really) Massive Invasion in the North

Robb marries another girl:Him his mom and over 3000 loyalists get shanked.

Dany loses her husband/child by her mistake:Gets 3 dragons

Dany kills a buncha innocent children:Gets free army and cult following

Dany meets random sellsword:Gets more free troops

Dany crucifies people:Nothing happens to her just some random people die.

Dany has children tortured:Nothing happens to her.

Anything bad that happens to her is instantly rewarded by something good happening to her.

Meanwhile anything bad that happens to other characters is instantly rewarded with more bad things.

[Starspear]

She has pretty damn good plot protection.

Robb sends Theon home:Winterfell invaded everyone killed (brothers killed but not really) Massive Invasion in the North

Robb marries another girl:Him his mom and over 3000 loyalists get shanked.

Dany loses her husband/child by her mistake:Gets 3 dragons

Dany kills a buncha innocent children:Gets free army and cult following

Dany meets random sellsword:Gets more free troops

Dany crucifies people:Nothing happens to her just some random people die.

Dany has children tortured:Nothing happens to her.

Anything bad that happens to her is instantly rewarded by something good happening to her.

<snip> posting contained error; incomplete thoughts.

[A Bastard Snow]

What is mind-boggling is how easily people accept her slaughter of children. The Mountain That Rides is hated because he slaughters women and children. Yet, Daenerys - child-killer - is still loved. Mind-boggling... maybe disturbing.

Yea she gets a massive following of totally loyal zealots willing to do anything for their "Mother" and the loyalty is baffling as she really hasent done anything to deserve it.

I mean why aren't the Wildlings all calling Jon "Father" and following him to the death.He saved them all from freaking snow zombies for the love of the gods.Not to mention he is actually feeding them and has plans to continue to feed them.

Slavers<Magic Snow Zombies that will kill you and make you into a magical snow zombie.

[Zebra of KotOR]

God damn I am part of a seriously small minority on this forum. I like Dany, I think ADwD is great and I don't believe in kill everyone karma. If people are punished for everything they do how would anyone be alive?

[iridescence]

What is mind-boggling is how easily people accept her slaughter of children. The Mountain That Rides is hated because he slaughters women and children. Yet, Daenerys - crucifier - is still loved. Mind-boggling... maybe disturbing. Another character that is despised for swiping at an innocent child: Darkstar. See the hate that one receives. But Daenerys, she can do no harm (even when she does harm).

I'm not really the biggest Dany fan but: She crucified some slavers after the slavers themselves crucified a bunch of little kids. Not perfect justice I agree but fits with the "eye for an eye" theme that is usually in ASOIAF. Even if she didn't get the exact slavers that had ordered the crucifixion I'm sure the ones she got weren't exactly innocent.

When exactly did she kill kids on purpose? I don't remember that unless you are talking about what her dragon did which she can't really control. In fact Shaved Pate wants her to kill the child hostages and she refuses.

[Chatty Duelist]

She has pretty damn good plot protection.

Robb sends Theon home:Winterfell invaded everyone killed (brothers killed but not really) Massive Invasion in the North

Robb marries another girl:Him his mom and over 3000 loyalists get shanked.

Dany loses her husband/child by her mistake:Gets 3 dragons

Dany kills a buncha innocent children:Gets free army and cult following

Dany meets random sellsword:Gets more free troops

Dany crucifies people:Nothing happens to her just some random people die.

Dany has children tortured:Nothing happens to her.

Anything bad that happens to her is instantly rewarded by something good happening to her.

Meanwhile anything bad that happens to other characters is instantly rewarded with more bad things.

/thread.

[Starspear]

I'm not really the biggest Dany fan but: She crucified some slavers after the slavers themselves crucified a bunch of little kids. Not perfect justice I agree but fits with the "eye for an eye" theme that is usually in ASOIAF. Even if she didn't get the exact slavers that had ordered the crucifixion I'm sure the ones she got weren't exactly innocent.

When exactly did she kill kids on purpose? I don't remember that unless you are talking about what her dragon did which she can't really control. In fact Shaved Pate wants her to kill the child hostages and she refuses.

Ignore that post. Upon re-reading noticed incorrect thoughts ; not quite the intended ideas... will re-visit at a later time with fresh mind.

[Eira Seren]

Hmm, it sounds like the OP doesn't think Dany pays for her mistakes. Not sure if I think she's really given the free pass (though I won't argue about some of her chapters being boring).

I keep thinking of Eroeh. Dany thought she was saving Eroeh, but it turns out that the girl got raped and killed anyway. Eroeh haunts Dany (though admittedly, Dany did not physically bear that injury). Still, that was a hard lesson for Dany, too.

Dany thought she was freeing slaves, yet there were the dead slave children strung up on every milepost on her way to the city.

Dany decreed that the weavers (also freed by Dany) should not have to pay their previous owner any of their earnings as freewomen, and that he should also give them a new loom for 'forgetting the name' of the old slave woman who trained them. Mysteriously, the Sons of the Harpy brutally retaliate by raping and killing the weaverwomen.

Psychologically, Dany bears a pretty heavy burden for the decisions and repercussions for those decisions that she makes. That's probably something she has in common with other individuals who are in leadership positions in the novels. And it may be even more personal to her in some instances because a ) she's a woman and so are the individuals attacked, in the typical way that woman are, whether at war or not and b ) she wants to free the slaves, and the masters like to find ways to retaliate that use the slaves to make their point. To my point of view, this would be a bit like Tormund dragging Ygritte in front of Castle Black and if Jon Snow refused to surrender, slitting her throat and using her blood for war paint. It's psychological warfare.

It was mentioned earlier that it seems that in the game of thrones, emotions don't count, but it's pretty evident that in terms of psychological warfare, they really do.

It also reminds me of Queen Elizabeth I, who let her cousin Mary live for a while before realizing that being merciful and merely imprisioning her wasn't doing anything to prevent the Catholic plotters from continuing to use Mary as a figurehead for deposing Elizabeth. She agonized over it for some months; it even drove her to writing poetry. In the end, Elizabeth felt forced to execute her. Like Elizabeth, some decisions and many consequences are agonizing for Dany because she's actually invested and cares what happens to her subjects, unlike, say Joffrey. Or Cersei. I'm surprised she hasn't ended up like Ned long before now. Maybe that's what the OP meant by getting a pass?

[Carey Snow]

Hmm, it sounds like the OP doesn't think Dany pays for her mistakes. Not sure if I think she's really given the free pass (though I won't argue about some of her chapters being boring).

I keep thinking of Eroeh. Dany thought she was saving Eroeh, but it turns out that the girl got raped and killed anyway. Eroeh haunts Dany (though admittedly, Dany did not physically bear that injury). Still, that was a hard lesson for Dany, too.

Dany thought she was freeing slaves, yet there were the dead slave children strung up on every milepost on her way to the city.

Dany decreed that the weavers (also freed by Dany) should not have to pay their previous owner any of their earnings as freewomen, and that he should also give them a new loom for 'forgetting the name' of the old slave woman who trained them. Mysteriously, the Sons of the Harpy brutally retaliate by raping and killing the weaverwomen.

Psychologically, Dany bears a pretty heavy burden for the decisions and repercussions for those decisions that she makes. That's probably something she has in common with other individuals who are in leadership positions in the novels. And it may be even more personal to her in some instances because a ) she's a woman and so are the individuals attacked, in the typical way that woman are, whether at war or not and b ) she wants to free the slaves, and the masters like to find ways to retaliate that use the slaves to make their point. To my point of view, this would be a bit like Tormund dragging Ygritte in front of Castle Black and if Jon Snow refused to surrender, slitting her throat and using her blood for war paint. It's psychological warfare.

It was mentioned earlier that it seems that in the game of thrones, emotions don't count, but it's pretty evident that in terms of psychological warfare, they really do.

It also reminds me of Queen Elizabeth I, who let her cousin Mary live for a while before realizing that being merciful and merely imprisioning her wasn't doing anything to prevent the Catholic plotters from continuing to use Mary as a figurehead for deposing Elizabeth. She agonized over it for some months; it even drove her to writing poetry. In the end, Elizabeth felt forced to execute her. Like Elizabeth, some decisions and many consequences are agonizing for Dany because she's actually invested and cares what happens to her subjects, unlike, say Joffrey. Or Cersei. I'm surprised she hasn't ended up like Ned long before now. Maybe that's what the OP meant by getting a pass?

No Dany's time is probably going to come. I just hope it is amazing, well written, and adds a great deal to the story.

[Eira Seren]

No Dany's time is probably going to come. I just hope it is amazing, well written, and adds a great deal to the story.

Oh, I agree and think she's going to bear some physical scars as well, if she survives!