Why didnt Ned tell Catelyn?

[Bedwyck]

Good point. If Jon were the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, that would have meant that he had some claim (however unlikely) on Winterfell. If I'm not mistaken, I believe might have been ahead of Sansa and Arya in the succession line, but it's a bit unclear. But as a bastard, he has no claim at all.

Im pretty sure a Lord's daughter comes before his sister's son in the line of succession. R+L=J being exposed means Jon has a claim to the IT, not Winterfell. Catelyn's nephew on the IT could only help her children.

[Knight Of Winter]

It's obvious why he didn't - he feared that someday, somehow, this increases the chances of secret getting out.

With that being said, I think Ned should have told Catelyn, especially considering how Cat would have every possible motive to keep the secret hidden.

[Bedwyck]

How could Martin have predicted back in 1995 it would become a hugely popular series a book and a base for an even more popular TV series?

Plus it wouldnt be such a hotly debated theory/topic of interest if he just made it clear through Catelyn's POV. I'm inclined to believe yours is the primary reason why.

[Bedwyck]

It's obvious why he didn't - he feared that someday, somehow, this increases the chances of secret getting out.

With that being said, I think Ned should have told Catelyn, especially considering how Cat would have every possible motive to keep the secret hidden.

If its a genuinely a character Ned thing and not a Martin plot thing then it also could just be because Lyanna made him promise not to tell anyone as someone already pointed out.

[PG-13]

How could Martin have predicted back in 1995 it would become a hugely popular book series and a base for an even more popular TV series?

He couldn't have. I was just saying its not much of a mystery anymore, and not exclusively for careful readers.

[sj4iy]

Im pretty sure a Lord's daughter comes before his sister's son in the line of succession. R+L=J being exposed means Jon has a claim to the IT, not Winterfell. Catelyn's nephew on the IT could only help her children.

I don't think it's very clear with the succession rules...really, it comes down to 'Who's going to stop me?'.

Yes, he would have a claim to the Iron Throne, but that doesn't mean he'd want it. He's always wanted Winterfell, not the Iron Throne.

In any case, this comes down more to Catelyn than Ned or Jon. Catelyn, in the end, just isn't trustworthy enough of a secret that involves the life of a boy not her own.

[Marcus Halberstram]

Ned did the right thing, if there's anything we can learn from the books it's that Catelyn is prone to bouts of idiocy.

[J. Stargaryen]

"Some secrets are safer kept hidden. Some secrets are too dangerous to share, even with those you love and trust."

Here is probably the main reason, in Ned's own words. The fact that harbouring Jon is treason, revealing his true parentage to another is a threat to both his safety as well as to the safety of House Stark. Best not take any chances.

Yep. Combine the above passage with Ned's thoughts during his meeting with Cersei in the KL godswood and you have the answer.

Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon’s life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

- AGoT, Eddard XII

[Skoboe]

Not possible unless there was sperm time-travel. Jon was conceived a couple of months after Brandon's death, to make his birth 8-9 months before Dany, i.e. within a month since the Sack (Dany was born 9 months after the Sack)

Who is giving the information about exactly when Jon was conceived?? Ned? Or is it just a snowballed set of assumptions on the interwebs?

Try thinking...Ned left the ToJ, travelled to Starfall, Harrenhall, White Harbour then Winterfell. Assuming no stops along the way it was a trip that would have taken months.

How old was Jon when he finally made it to Winterfell? Does it mention that anywhere? It's easy to pick a 3 month old from a 6 month old - not so easy to pick a 9 month old from a 12 month old. And if a 12 month old had been swaddled up and on horseback for a few months he may well look like a 6 month old.

Just because so many people want R+L to equal J doesn't mean it's going to be true.

If Jon was a Targ, why would Ned have kept it a secret even from his wife? Where was the contingency in case something happened to Ned? Why keep it from Jon? And the biggest elephant in the room - why agree to send him to the Wall? Rhaegar Targaryen's son - taking the black and now not allowed to marry, have kids, or leave the wall!

But if Jon was Brandon's son he'd have every reason to keep everyone in the dark about it.

• Couldn't tell Cat because she'd lost Brandon, was forced to marry Ned, while the rightful Lord of Winterfell was right under her nose. "Hey Cat, about that political marriage to the next in line thing..."

Couldn't tell Jon because he wanted to protect his own son's claims.

Couldn't tell Robert because word would have gotten out in KL and caused a political shit storm

Couldn't tell anyone in the North because one day some faction would try and prop Jon up as the Lord of WInterfell.

Easiest thing to do was put up with Cat's jealousy and ship him off to the Wall at the first opportunity.

[sj4iy]

But if Jon was Brandon's son he'd have every reason to keep everyone in the dark about it.

Couldn't tell Cat because she'd lost Brandon, was forced to marry Ned, while the rightful Lord of Winterfell was right under her nose. "Hey Cat, about that political marriage to the next in line thing..."

Not in Ned's character at all. He'd never lie to protect his seat as the Lord of Winterfell, even for his wife's sake.

Couldn't tell Jon because he wanted to protect his own son's claims.

Again, Ned would never do such a thing.

Couldn't tell Robert because word would have gotten out in KL and caused a political shit storm

...uh, why? Why would that cause any sort of problem in King's Landing?

Couldn't tell anyone in the North because one day some faction would try and prop Jon up as the Lord of WInterfell.

Again, Ned would never try to steal the claim of Winterfell from its rightful heir.

[Osha13]

He couldn't risk it. The best way to have others believe it is for Catelyn to truly think Jon is Eddard's bastard. If Catelyn knew Jon wasn't Ned's, there is always the slightest chance someone could find out. The family dynamic of Jon being the bastard brother is what kept him safe. Maybe Catelyn wouldn't have told anyone, but Eddard still felt it would have been better for Jon's protection for nobody to know.

[Skoboe]

Not in Ned's character at all. He'd never lie to protect his seat as the Lord of Winterfell, even for his wife's sake.

Again, Ned would never do such a thing.

...uh, why? Why would that cause any sort of problem in King's Landing?

Again, Ned would never try to steal the claim of Winterfell from its rightful heir.

But cheating on his new bride then travelling the 7K delivering swords and horses instead of rushing home to see his firstborn was in character???

I don't think the honourable Ned Stark was anywhere near as honourable as some would think.

One could also argue that once the lie was told about Jon (i.e. that he is Brandon's, not Ned's), it could never be untold without forever damaging his reputation in the North or his relationship with Cat and their children.

Can you answer some of the obvious questions as to why Ned told no one at all about Jon's parentage if he was a Targ? They're a kind of important bloodline, you know.

[sj4iy]

But cheating on his new bride then travelling the 7K delivering swords and horses instead of rushing home to see his firstborn was in character???

I don't think the honourable Ned Stark was anywhere near as honourable as some would think.

One could also argue that once the lie was told about Jon (i.e. that he is Brandon's, not Ned's), it could never be untold without forever damaging his reputation in the North or his relationship with Cat and their children.

Can you answer some of the obvious questions as to why Ned told no one at all about Jon's parentage if he was a Targ? They're a kind of important bloodline, you know.

Uh, yes.

1. The Targs are no longer in power

and

2. The man who IS in power has no problem killing Targs, and even allows a man who ordered the murder of babies a position of great power afterwards.

It's extremely and painfully obvious that telling anyone, including Jon himself (who is still a child), would have put Jon in grave danger.

[Bedwyck]

He couldn't risk it. The best way to have others believe it is for Catelyn to truly think Jon is Eddard's bastard. If Catelyn knew Jon wasn't Ned's, there is always the slightest chance someone could find out. The family dynamic of Jon being the bastard brother is what kept him safe. Maybe Catelyn wouldn't have told anyone, but Eddard still felt it would have been better for Jon's protection for nobody to know.

The chances that Catelyn betrays Ned's trust and her own nephew are very small. It would most likely have to be an extreme scenario in which something like the Baratheon's accuse the Starks of harboring Targs and threaten her children unless she confirms the truth behind Jon's lineage. In that scenario Catelyn may well be willing to sacrifice Jon by saying he's Rhaegar's son even if Ned does not tell her the truth. If she thinks they really are serious about harming her children then she'll just tell them what she thinks will prevent that even if that means saying something she does not know is true.

I just think that telling Catelyn about R+L=J is extremely unlikely to lead to Jon's death. So unlikely that I dont think the very slight risk justifies the pain it causes Catelyn.

[SerArthurHeath]

You're basing that entire comment on the assumption that R+L=J....what if that isn't the case?

What if Jon is actually the legitimate child of Brandon and Ashara? Brandon is slow-cooked just after getting Ashara pregnant, Ned returns Ser Arthur's sword and Ashara happens to die.

What if the lie Ned had been living all those years is that Jon is actually heir to Winterfell, not Ned, nor Robb or anyone other child of Ned and Catelyn?

What if Ned's motives were just self-interest and nothing to do with some grand conspiracy involving hidden Targs?

Ned? Self-interest? I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't even grasp the concept...

[SerArthurHeath]

The chances that Catelyn betrays Ned's trust and her own nephew are very small. It would most likely have to be an extreme scenario in which something like the Baratheon's accuse the Starks of harboring Targs and threaten her children unless she confirms the truth behind Jon's lineage. In that scenario Catelyn may well be willing to sacrifice Jon by saying he's Rhaegar's son even if Ned does not tell her the truth. If she thinks they really are serious about harming her children then she'll just tell them what she thinks will prevent that even if that means saying something she does not know is true.

I just think that telling Catelyn about R+L=J is extremely unlikely to lead to Jon's death. So unlikely that I dont think the very slight risk justifies the pain it causes Catelyn.

Cat is very anti-Jon on the basis that he could threaten her descendants' inheritance. You can't see her selling him out if his existence threatened their lives?

[Osha13]

The chances that Catelyn betrays Ned's trust and her own nephew are very small. It would most likely have to be an extreme scenario in which something like the Baratheon's accuse the Starks of harboring Targs and threaten her children unless she confirms the truth behind Jon's lineage. In that scenario Catelyn may well be willing to sacrifice Jon by saying he's Rhaegar's son even if Ned does not tell her the truth. If she thinks they really are serious about harming her children then she'll just tell them what she thinks will prevent that even if that means saying something she does not know is true.

I just think that telling Catelyn about R+L=J is extremely unlikely to lead to Jon's death. So unlikely that I dont think the very slight risk justifies the pain it causes Catelyn.

Yeah it's too bad that Eddard isn't around to ask anymore. He could provide some insight on why he thought it was best not to tell her.

[horizon]

If Eddard wanted to protect Jon from Robert, because Robert (and Tywin Lannister as well) at that point would kill every Targaryen, then he just could have told, without holding back, that Wylla or Ashara were Jon's mother. He made a slip up, aye, but Jon was safe.

And at any point he could still tell Jon the truth if he ever wanted to do that (and to be honest, I don't think he ever would, it is only when he is locked up he gets that line of thoughts iirc).

[SerArthurHeath]

If Eddard wanted to protect Jon from Robert, because Robert (and Tywin Lannister as well) at that point would kill every Targaryen, then he just could have told, without holding back, that Wylla or Ashara were Jon's mother. He made a slip up, aye, but Jon was safe.

And at any point he could still tell Jon the truth if he ever wanted to do that (and to be honest, I don't think he ever would, it is only when he is locked up he gets that line of thoughts iirc).

He DID tell Robert that Wylla was Jon's mother

Oops, sorry. He actually didn't, that's the show mixing into my thoughts

. He just hates lying more than utterly necessary

Also implicating a specific woman and confirming it would be dishonouring them too, and can anyone see how Ned might strive to avoid that?

[horizon]

He DID tell Robert that Wylla was Jon's mother

Oops, sorry. He actually didn't, that's the show mixing into my thoughts

. He just hates lying more than utterly necessary

Also implicating a specific woman and confirming it would be dishonouring them too, and can anyone see how Ned might strive to avoid that?

If it was for the safety of the kid(s), what would Eddard ultimately do? Would he tell a lie? I guess he would. As honoured as Eddard is, he did have fun with Wylla and perhaps even Ashara (he at least danced with her and fancied her), now that doesn;t mean he had to go all the way, but his thought would have.

So Eddard may be one of the honourable persons but he had his weak moments, and it can be explained. He was suddenly bethrothed to Catelyn, off to a war he might die in.

But yes, keeping silent and not saying anything is also an option, but there is also the saying: "Keeping silent is agreeing".

Furthermore, Wylla was at least Jon's wetnurse. Now, did Wylla travel up north with Eddard? Or did she stay with the Dayne kid?

Plus, is she still alive?