Muggle Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 This is a little off topic from the OP but more about Bran warging Dragons. honestly find the reference to ice dragon odd. we dont get much use of the phrase from Jon at the wall. Then all of a sudden in the 5th book we get what seems an explosion of it being used. Im not saying there will be ice dragons. But I wont be surprised if we see one or two. Who knows what happens in the North once winter has finally come. In GRRM's short story about the ice dragon battling the fire dragons. The ice dragon migrates based on the seasons. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nymxria Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 This is a little off topic from the OP but more about Bran warging Dragons. A discussion is a discussion, I guess. I don't mind threads drifting from the OP as long as it's somehow related. Especially if I learn something, like I have in this thread :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 So back to Bran potentially skin-changing into a dragon in Meereen.... The whole weirwood being close-by, doesn't seem to apply. Arya definitely skin-changed into a cat. So, there is not some set black and white rule that a tree must be present. Fact.If you want to say that the house many faces had a weir wood door, or she had extra training, blah blah blah, then you are reaching. You are searching for some rule to make it a sure thing that Bran CAN NOT warg a dragon in Meereen. Now warging dragons - that is a totally different issue. IMO, we should not be looking at the dragon rider bond to see if this is possible or not. If it is possible, Bran is likely the only human on the planet, maybe ever, who has the ability to do this. IF Martin wants it to happen, it will happen. And I have confidence it will be written beautifully. However, why would it need to happen in Meereen? It would seemingly be much better for the story if Bran did this at a point where it was important to Bran's arc. We have no evidence that the situation in the East is important to Bran/Bloodravan at all. So why not wait until they come to the Sunset Lands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nymxria Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 What I was thinking was that we don't even know Bran's arc yet. He will be all knowing and powerful, but what are his goals with that? Defending against the Others in some way is the first idea, but if he can supposedly warg a dragon, why not warg the Night's King and stop the invasion?Also, does Bran even know that dragons are in existence now? I'm a bit fuzzy on the whole timeline of events right now i.e when he left with the Reeds and when talk of Dany began to spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 That is a great point about Bran not knowing about the existence of dragons! Dany surely doesn't seem to be aware of the existence of the Others, and it seems like no one at the Wall and North seems to know about the dragons. It will be very interesting when the knowledge spreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nymxria Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 The whole weirwood being close-by, doesn't seem to apply. Arya definitely skin-changed into a cat. So, there is not some set black and white rule that a tree must be present. Fact.Not putting your point out of the question, it's valid but there's a great difference between a dragon and a cat, especially if Arya made a connection with that cat in KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nymxria Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 When Dany learns of the Others, she might take the chance of taking Westoros in the midst of all the chaos, if Aegon doesn't first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Not putting your point out of the question, it's valid but there's a great difference between a dragon and a cat, especially if Arya made a connection with that cat in KL. I feel you for sure. But when the question is about the presence of a weirwood, the Arya situation seems to show otherwise. To build on the Arya skin-changing. Will her training make her a super warg?? Or has her warging ability made her a super-faceless man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nymxria Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Didn't Arya do it with the cat in a dream though? I always thought that animal dreams weren't considered warging and that it's only warging if you use the animal intentionally.Bran might need the weirwood to physically control the likes of a dragon, as opposed to Arya just being in the mind of her direwolf/cat, not controlling it, which would require vast amounts of power granted by the likes of a weirwood. Even Tyrion has had warg-like dreams of dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jaime Lannister Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 While Ara was fighting against the Kingly man, while blind, she was able to see his moves and counter them, because she was skin-changing through the cat. This was a mini-climax because the Kindly-man thought her as worthy of a promotion. Also, she skin-changed a cat (not sure if it was the same one or not-kinda weird if it WAS the same cat) at a, um, cafe???, while ppl were having a conversation she was able able to sit there, blind, and still see the the people having the conversation. It seems like her "warging" powers are in a different way, more powerful, or differently powerful than her brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackFlame Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Didn't Arya do it with the cat in a dream though? I always thought that animal dreams weren't considered warging and that it's only warging if you use the animal intentionally.Bran might need the weirwood to physically control the likes of a dragon, as opposed to Arya just being in the mind of her direwolf/cat, not controlling it, which would require vast amounts of power granted by the likes of a weirwood. Even Tyrion has had warg-like dreams of dragons. She has had more than animal dreams. She uses the cat as her eyes to strike the kindly man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nymxria Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Ah, so we've successfully gotten an answer; a weirwood tree doesn't need to be nearby for magic of a sort to take place. I don't know why I thought otherwise, I just associated Bran with weirwoods too heavily I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackFlame Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Ah, so we've successfully gotten an answer; a weirwood tree doesn't need to be nearby for magic of a sort to take place. I don't know why I thought otherwise, I just associated Bran with weirwoods too heavily I suppose. It could be possible that the bond he has to the Weirwoods might make it easier or somehow amplify his natural ability but I don't think its strictly necessary. One thing I wonder is if Arya is a more powerful warg than we might suspect. I'm not going to look it up but I can't recall an instance where Bran has warged into something where he isn't in some kind of trance or asleep. If there is someone please post if for me. Arya was not only able to remain conscious but control herself and the cat at the same time well enough to launch a successful co-ordinated attack on the kindly man. It could be significant or it could just be a continuity error they happen and its the only time we see her do it. But who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChildoftheTropicalForest Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Ah, so we've successfully gotten an answer; a weirwood tree doesn't need to be nearby for magic of a sort to take place. I don't know why I thought otherwise, I just associated Bran with weirwoods too heavily I suppose. They are important, but not to the storyline in Meereen. Bran is being positioned in his own weirwood throne as a greenseer, one who is bonded to the tree and has the ability to see past present future through the memory of the trees and the CotF that have preceded him. He may be the narrator of the series from ADWD on....let's all pray to the Old Gods and the Seven for future weirwood plantings throughout the continent. Bran can fly by skinchanging into a winged creature, like ravens, he and his siblings (Jon too) are all wargs, being bonded with a wolf and having the ability to see and experience through the eyes of/consciousness of said bonded wolf. These abilites seem to be strongest in Bran and Arya but clearly Jon is experiencing it as well with Ghost. I want to believe Sansa's ability will emerge in the future. In fairness to your OP I can see why you might have assumed that, since Bran III of ADWD has a past experience (during a dream) of tasting blood while watching an execution. It is similar to the warging passages while the direwolves are hunting and eating prey. I think we have all envisioned Bran skinchanging and controlling the actions of a dragon at some point. We all want to see him fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hulboy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Chances are the Nights King is also a warg with the power of ice on his side . I wouldn't be surprised by nothing in the next 2 books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hulboy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Weirwoods are poppin up throughout the south an in Bravos it seems they have weir wood doors thrones the trees are coming back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyfife Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 can wargs even warg into a dragon would be my question? only grrm can knows and untill he lets us no the rules of brans magic system we wont no for sure.but as long as the targs rain of rule was and before the dragons were all gone.why did no one warg one then? or maybe they did and we dont no yet?idk i brought this up in another thread to dragons arent just normal animals i believe they are magical creatures in grrms world.as wargs are magical so maybe it just dont work maybe the magics cancel each other out in so way.now the ice dragon thing if there turn out to be any id be more on board wit that. as bran is a norther a stark? blood of the 1st men? idk but if he can just take the dragons over along with his other powers which we also dont no the extent of yet. well then there wont be much of a fight brans character would be to powered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I don't see a weirwood tree being involved. They seem to have been doing fine without one. However in all instances of warging or attempted warging we have seen there is personal contact or maybe touch involved to initially form the bond. The diirewolves are obvious. Arya had been feeding the cat and it was on her lap when she warged it. Likewise the raven Bran warged into in the cave landed on his lap. And obviously he and Hodor have had a lot of personal contact. On the other hand when Bran tried to warg a random eagle he saw in the distance nothing happened. Maybe that will change in the future as they grow more skilled. Using a tree or weirwood as some sort of transponder may have merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Flies Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The funny thing is, with all this talk of how Bran could warg a dragon and how Arya's powers work differently, there hasn't been much talk of Arya warging a dragon. Now, I'm not saying that's possible, but if I had to bet on one of the Stark kids doing it, it would be her. Bran's magical exposure has been strictly rooted to the Old Gods and the North, while Arya's covered a broader spectrum during her travels and training. As has been said, she warged a cat while being physically engaged in a small fight, which is in many ways far more refined than what Bran can do. Arya wouldn't even need to come into contact with Dany to get to a dragon, depending on what happens with Victarion and the horn. She may see it as a reason to return to Westeros (trying to stop a threat?) and take it over at a key moment. Again, unlikely, but who really knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 You don't need a weirwood street to be nearby to warg something. As long as you're near or have had contact with what you are warging. Bran warged Hodor with no nearby weirwood tree iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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