BearQueen87 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 What I want to know is how accurate Ned's fever dream recollection of the ToJ showdown is. I get the impression that people here (not naming names, this is an impression from multiple posts) that people are taking the scene as gospel that that's how it was, when I know I've read that GRRM has pointed out that it was a fever dream and therefore the actual events may not have happened that way. Also, does abduction and rape have to me mutually inclusive? I know we don't know exactly how Rhaegar and Lyanna ended up together, but I don't think abduction can be ruled out. I think it's the most likely scenario, as in abduction = taken at sword point, and I figure that swords had to have been drawn for the tale to be told that she was abducted (as I doubt that I highborn lady would have been alone wherever she was at the time). However, I don't think that Rhaegar abducting Lyanna automatically means he raped her, nor does it mean that Lyanna cannot have loved him or grown to love him, or even that she was totally unwilling when she was taken. I think it's part true, part fever dream, and part Ned's own interpretation of the KG themeselves once he learned the truth. The conversation between the KG and Ned probably did NOT happen like that. But once Ned gets up to the Tower, and learns that Lyanna was married to Rhaegar and gave birth to his heir, then Ned's view on the KG changes. He probably questioned why those three were even there to begin with, but in his recollection of the event he now knows that they were upholding their sworn duty to protect the King. Thus the conversation between the 4 (KG and Ned) is a reflection of what Ned knows now that he did not know back then. As far as what actually happened, I think it goes like this: Ned and his 6 arrive at the ToJ. Maybe there is a brief conversation but it certainly wasn't the way Ned remembers it. They all fight. The 3 KG die. Ned goes up to rescue his sister only to learn about Jon and the marriage of L and R. EDITED TO ADD: so the reason why people take the conversation that Ned remembers so seriously is because he is privileged with information that we, as of yet, are not. The way that he remembers the KG (and even the way he remembers Rhaegar throughout aGoT) is more important that what may have really happened. He doesn't remember them as men who were helping to hold a woman hostage who supposedly was being raped over and over again, but he remembers them as examples of true knights that he mourns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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