Blackfyre Gateau Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Political expediency - e.g. to wipe out the Bolton line entirely, rather than just attaining some of their lands or penalising them financially, may have upset the geo-political balance in the North. The Stark in Winterfell at the time may have feared it would have led to other 'over-mighty magnates' emerging over time. May have made more sense to have them bend the knee, after giving them a harsh lesson, than court the uncertainty of trying to implant other banner men or a Stark cadet branch there. There may have been a Theon dynamic in play e.g. Renegade Boltons dispatched, but the Starks opted to take a pliable young Bolton heir as a war/ hostage and they may have been gradually 'rehabilitated'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 It wasn't a case of Bolton good and Stark bad back in the Ancient Days. Rather it was a case of every Northman being a friggin hard bastard, whether he be Bolton or Stark. In short, more Brandon Ice-Eyes types, and fewer Eddard Soft-Heart types. The Old Starks were bad-asses. As for the Boltons. They did not "only bend 1000 years ago". They were already subjugated 3000 years ago, before they and the Greystarks joined in REBELLION against the Starks. Rebellion means that you are rising up against your overlords. Meaning that the Boltons had already been ruled by the Starks prior to that point in time. Hence, rather than an independent Bolton kingdom standing unconquered until 1000 years ago, we are instead looking at the Boltons being grudging Stark subjects as much as 4000 years ago, but revolting against the Starks' rule periodically, with the last revolt occurring in year 300 After Aegon's Conquest, leading to Ramsay Bolton temporarily usurping the Starks rule of the North. Agreed about Ned, in his mercy, being somewhat uncharacteristic of the North. Especially the Old North. "Harsh and unforgiving" doesn't just describe the climate As for the Bolton surrendering 1000 years ago, I never argued that they were independent until then. Only that that might have been their only major rebellion, and that the rest of their conflict with Winterfell stems from before the North was united. But it seems you've proved me wrong on that count - the 3000 year date for the Greystarks means there must have been multiple Bolton rebellions And a minor correction - Roose usurped the Starks as ruler of the North, Ramsay only usurped Winterfell. And even there Roose is the one actually in charge Bolton Kings of Dread Now that's a badass title :devil: Sounds like the name of an Metallica or Iron Maiden album Oh, lol, no problem. I think we tend to agree about Roose and Rams' purely political moves, though, right? The disagreement tends to be about whether there's something magical going on I think. For the most part, yea. But I recall a big part of your speculation being that Roose actually murdered Domeric, partly because it is uncharacteristic of Ramsay to kill with poison? I take Roose at his word that he fears the kinslaying curse, and think Ramsay has shown enough slyness and low cunning in the series to suggest he could kill with poison if he saw a reason to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Simplest answer ever? Because whoever gets in a fight with them finds out he's not the meanest dog in the fight. They hold on and get through any attempt to squash them by turning the tables on you. So the other houses learned not to mix it up with them and just left well enough alone. Might as well ask why Afghanistan still exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 For the most part, yea. But I recall a big part of your speculation being that Roose actually murdered Domeric, partly because it is uncharacteristic of Ramsay to kill with poison? I take Roose at his word that he fears the kinslaying curse, and think Ramsay has shown enough slyness and low cunning in the series to suggest he could kill with poison if he saw a reason to Oh, that's not really why I suspect Rams didn't do it, or didn't do it alone. I think Rams is smart enough to do it that way (at least, make it appear as an accident); it's more that I don't think poison would be his preferred method for even staging an accidental death. But Rams' blood-drawing "signature" wasn't the only part I'd thought made it unlikely-- I had a list of like 7 or 8 points in that other thread on why I thought it was really suspect. But we don't have to get into it here or anything. And us Bolton enthusiasts seem to be precious few in number, so we can't start squabbling amongst ourselves, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 And us Bolton enthusiasts seem to be precious few in number, so we can't start squabbling amongst ourselves, lol. There seems to be a not-insignificant number of Roose fans on the board. Enough to where fans of certain other characters (*cough! Mannis! *cough!) have started threads complaining about it, at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanna Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 There seems to be a not-insignificant number of Roose fans on the board. Enough to where fans of certain other characters (*cough! Mannis! *cough!) have started threads complaining about it, at least... So you complain about a group of fans complaining....ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 So you complain about a group of fans complaining....ironic. Truly insightful comment there. So you think it's "complaining" to state a fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Because some reason the hard core northern lords can got their own cousins but men who skin them alive most live on to attack them later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 There seems to be a not-insignificant number of Roose fans on the board. Enough to where fans of certain other characters (*cough! Mannis! *cough!) have started threads complaining about it, at least... The Battle of Ice will be tough for those of us that are fans of both characters. Part of me is going to lose out :bawl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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