BastardlyRock Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 GRRM didn't have these complaints before ASOIAF, (btw, did you know he wrote many things before this?) and as far as I can see he doesn't deserve late comers nitpicking over every single thing and calling him a bad writer for it. It's his story, either you're on board, or your not. Unless you can directly influence his writing (here's a hint, the only way to do this is to not buy the book) then I'm sorry. "GRRM didn't do such and such the way I wanted." Okay, so rant about it on the internet if that makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Agreed on all points. Criticism is healthy, and tastes do differ. I only get annoyed at people who use "bad writing" as a synonym for "I don't like it." People who can actually discuss it, or just didn't care for it don't bother me at all. I actually like discussing differing viewpoints. Yes I have seen that in regards to characters, not so much here though--I think. Even though I despise Dany for various reasons, it follows that Martin's ability to create a character that can inspire disgust or love from his fan-base is something that should not be taken lightly. There are very few things that I have read that I can honestly say I really dislike that character or really like this character. Most of the time, I am rather neutral. I think this is probably the greatest strength of his work as a whole despite some shortcomings. All of us have personal experiences that allow us to be drawn to certain characters, and this doesn't happen if the characters are not written well. Joff, for example, is written perfectly. How could we hate such a repulsive character if the words don't match the crime? In that sense, Martin is nearly flawless. I am sure there will be some who would argue that if Dany became Queen and ruled that Martin would be a bad writer.....I will not mention names. I would be sick to my stomach, but I am almost certain that any way Martin lays it out will be an enjoyable read. Obviously there are the Quentyn instances that people question, but I doubt those same people feel it makes him a bad writer. Even with the latest installments, the jury is still out on whether the books were good or not. I personally think they were less exciting, but each book has its own merits and point in the entire story. I liked both, because that is one more thing for me to read aSoIaF....call it naive, but hey. I still haven't read the novellas :dunno: , because I keep reading these over haha. If you think DwD and AffC are bad, go to Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy, skip the first two books and read book 3 (the final book I might add). You will run back to AffC and DwD and lather them with love and care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new djinn Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 GRRM can't be a bad writer for these characters. That Benioff and Weiss job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 There is a difference between "bad writing", "bad plotting" and "bad execution". "Bad writing" tend to mean poor prose, and I personally don't think GRRM's prose is poor at all. Speaking from experience (day job), a writer may know exactly where he wants to go but his/her characters do not always agree (yes, to a writer, characters are almost alive). All it takes is a few tiny steps sideways, a few little comments that pops out of a character's mouth, and you suddenly find your narrative is heading in a completely different direction. I suspect this is what has happened with the Meereenese knot: Dany slipped into it and he can't get her out without doing a Deus Ex Machina. All he can do is wait until a path out conjures itself up. Well writing sort of entails everything. After all it is a discipline with sub-parts. Yet the writer has complete control over the situation and can always go back and say "You know what? That didn't work right, let's try that again" and come up with something completely different if he or she is so inclined. Allowing the story to move organically is one thing...allowing it to get completely away from you is a completely different story. Yes. I do buy the let the characters work for you....I sort of take the same route with "let the manuscripts tell the story". At the same time my characters are not always the most reliable voices, I then need to step in. So Martin sometimes needs to tell his characters to sit down, shut up, and let me direct you. :) Someone will complain, no matter what. Especially those who may be proven wrong. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 GRRM didn't have these complaints before ASOIAF, (btw, did you know he wrote many things before this?) and as far as I can see he doesn't deserve late comers nitpicking over every single thing and calling him a bad writer for it. It's his story, either you're on board, or your not. Unless you can directly influence his writing (here's a hint, the only way to do this is to not buy the book) then I'm sorry. "GRRM didn't do such and such the way I wanted." Okay, so rant about it on the internet if that makes you feel better. You can like a book and still be critical of parts of it. There is nothing wrong with that. I agree if someone hates all 5 books, but still reads them. That is a bit odd, but literary criticism is perfectly fine. I am aware that he wrote before aSoIaF, and I am also sure that he did have complaints. There isn't a single work out there that doesnt have a negative review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Not That Littlefinger Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I can understand some people complaining about things like brienne's affc storyline, but I liked it. sure, we could have done with a few less of those chapters and she was kind of just going in circles, but they were still entertaining imo. why does every little thing have to have so much narrative importane? those chapters helped build her character and allowed there to be some more action in a book that was kind of lacking on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You can like a book and still be critical of parts of it. There is nothing wrong with that. I agree if someone hates all 5 books, but still reads them. That is a bit odd, but literary criticism is perfectly fine. I am aware that he wrote before aSoIaF, and I am also sure that he did have complaints. There isn't a single work out there that doesnt have a negative review. You're right on all counts, I don't contest that. My last post I was in a hurry and didn't make all my points clear, I've just read a slew of GRRM-bashing articles today and part of that was just my venting, apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You're right on all counts, I don't contest that. My last post I was in a hurry and didn't make all my points clear, I've just read a slew of GRRM-bashing articles today and part of that was just my venting, apologies. Haha no problem. There has been an increase of "bad writing" threads/comments lately so I understand your sentiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Haha no problem. There has been an increase of "bad writing" threads/comments lately so I understand your sentiments. I just love him so much! :bawl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Haha no problem. There has been an increase of "bad writing" threads/comments lately so I understand your sentiments. To be fair, this thread started out as someone complaining that others were criticizing the books. Of course, Martin doesn't get half the shit that the showrunners get, but that comes with the territory of widespread popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Do you have a crystal ball you'd like to share with the rest of us? Or some inside information? Because the series not ending is by no means certain. Judge away. I don't mind. They are now talking about 8 books. George doesn't know how to connect the characters to their end points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 To be fair, this thread started out as someone complaining that others were criticizing the books. Of course, Martin doesn't get half the shit that the showrunners get, but that comes with the territory of widespread popularity.Also he doesn't deserve half the shit the showrunners get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Also he doesn't deserve half the shit the showrunners get I disagree. I think the showrunners get twice the shit they deserve. I think people are more apt to let Martin's foibles slide. Martin could write the dumbest, most idiotic, most pointless character and storyline, yet if the showrunners changed it, they'd get criticized for messing with Martin's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Dottir Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I just love him so much! :bawl: Me too :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeParking Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I disagree. I think the showrunners get twice the shit they deserve. I think people are more apt to let Martin's foibles slide. Martin could write the dumbest, most idiotic, most pointless character and storyline, yet if the showrunners changed it, they'd get criticized for messing with Martin's work. In the books Jaime arrives in time for Tyrion's trial, doesn't he? Why doesn't he go to Tyrion before then? I tend to think it is for dramatic reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 They are now talking about 8 books. George doesn't know how to connect the characters to their end points. Well apparently some die horrible, grisly deaths in WoW....so maybe that will help. http://uproxx.com/tv/2014/07/george-r-r-martin-responds-to-a-heartfelt-letter-from-13-year-old-fan-asking-to-die-a-grisly-death/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I disagree. I think the showrunners get twice the shit they deserve. I think people are more apt to let Martin's foibles slide. Martin could write the dumbest, most idiotic, most pointless character and storyline, yet if the showrunners changed it, they'd get criticized for messing with Martin's work. Hardly. The showrunners have been handed everythng on a plate before they even started filming the show and one of the biggest budgets to go along with that. That's an envious position to be in and yet, the qulity of the show (both as a show and as an adaptation) has been on the decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hardly. The showrunners have been handed everythng on a plate before they even started filming the show and one of the biggest budgets to go along with that. That's an envious position to be in and yet, the qulity of the show (both as a show and as an adaptation) has been on the decline. From a readers pov possibly, but from the viewer only crowd? I don;t think so. Either way it still trumps most of what is out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 From a readers pov possibly, but from the viewer only crowd? I don;t think so. Either way it still trumps most of what is out there. It probably does but given the luxuries they've had you expect better. As an adaptation the show is heading towards outright failure if some of the rumours are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonisHenryTudor Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It probably does but given the luxuries they've had you expect better. As an adaptation the show is heading towards outright failure if some of the rumours are true. Oh I do have many criticisms about the show, but I seem to have offended some people so I never bring them up. For one, with such a rich story-line, I am not sure that the amount of time spend on sexuality/sex is necessary. I think many of those scenes could be shortened or cut altogether. That is just me though. And apparently an offensive pov.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.