joluoto2 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 So, the Ironborn claim to be descendants of people living at bottom of the sea.Still Ironborn have cultural traits that can be traced to the First Men.Both Ironborn and others have legends of Mermen and MermaidsThe first Ironborn king was supposed to have married a MermaidThe Seastone chair is not built by the Ironborn, but predates them. Yeah, you know where this wild speculating is going. What if there was an Underwater race that mated with the First Men, and the Ironborn are the offspring of that union? Edit: I seem to have misspelled Mermen in the title... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I have always thought so. The ironborn practice thralldom, so for the squishers/Deep Ones/merfolk to have enthralled First Men (who are not seafaring people) and crossbred, I do not see as unlikely.The Seastone Chair is made of a similar material to the base of the Hightower, the mazes of Lorath, and other things. All coastal places, so I think there is another race, who are now dead, maybe fighting the White Walkers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(f)Aegon (f)orever Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 If this is true, what would it mean for Patchface's songs/profecies?? Could they then be interpreted to be more literal? Because he was shipwrecked and drowned, so if this is true, does that mean that these merpeople still exist and actively helped and saved Patchface's life while also giving him some sort of greenseeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 After reading the World Book I do think there is an Underwater race, in the vein of Lovecraft. I'm not sure if they play any significant part in the story now or way back then. Might just be a nice homage and GRRM fleshing out the very beginnings of his world. If this is true, what would it mean for Patchface's songs/profecies?? Could they then be interpreted to be more literal? Because he was shipwrecked and drowned, so if this is true, does that mean that these merpeople still exist and actively helped and saved Patchface's life while also giving him some sort of greenseeing? That's a good question! It's possible Patchface met one of these Deep Ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 There is also various mermen imagery connected with the Manderleys and White Harbor. Plus the vestigial hand-webbing seen in residents of the Three Sisters when Davos is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 So, the Ironborn claim to be descendants of people living at bottom of the sea. Still Ironborn have cultural traits that can be traced to the First Men. Both Ironborn and others have legends of Mermen and Mermaids The first Ironborn king was supposed to have married a Mermaid The Seastone chair is not built by the Ironborn, but predates them. Yeah, you know where this wild speculating is going. What if there was an Underwater race that mated with the First Men, and the Ironborn are the offspring of that union? Edit: I seem to have misspelled Mermen in the title... I was curious about this too. But I wondered if the idea of an underwater race was Ironborn spin. What if the Iron Isles weren't always surrounded by water? We know Pyke sinks periodically, and we know there have been a few occasions where major floods/ earthquakes changed various coastlines. It sounds like there may have once been volcanic activity around Nagga's ribs (it used to give off heat-- "living fire"). (And as a side point, Nagga's ribs sound a bit like weirwoods to me, so I wonder if it's not a dragon but evidence of CotF). What if it's as simple as early FM walking over what used to be a landbridge, some disaster striking separating it from the mainland, and later Ironborn assuming that it's an entirely separate race when they see the remains of that earlier settlement? If land sunk (or the water levels rose) then the earlier civilization would pretty literally be at the bottom of the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 IIRC thralldom was a First Men practice. Doesn't TWOIAF say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 IIRC thralldom was a First Men practice. Doesn't TWOIAF say that. Yup, it's one of the cultural aspects that ties the Ironborn to the First Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzalo Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 And kidnapping women to make them into salt-wives sounds rather similar to the bride-stealing practices of Free Folk and Vale Mountain Clans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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