Jaak Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Starting from the time we know:Velena Velaryon. Aegon´s accession by definition required Aerion to have died, but what became of Velena?Rhaenys - crashed at Hellholt in 10, further fate unknown.Visenya - survived her husband and died natural caused in 44, age 73Alyssa Velaryon - survived her husband and went on to be a regent and remarry Baratheon, with two childrenCeryse - died for uncertain causes in her husband´s reign (natural or poisoning)Alys Harroway - executed with all her family for adulteryTyanna of Tower - killed for poisoning her cowivesElinor Costayne: survived King, further fate unreportedRhaena Targaryen - rider of Dreamfyre, widow of King Aegon. Was forced to marry Maegor after Tyanna found her daughters hid by lord Farman (Where was Dreamfyre hid?). Maegor made her daughter Aerea his heir (which she was anyway as the heiress of Aegon...). Rhaena fled to Jaehaerys when his little brother proclaimed for Crown, stealing Blackfyre... what did she then do with her daughters, and what became of them in Jaehaerys´ reign?Jeyne Westerling - died after stillbirth. Note that the tally is just 6 - a SSM states 8 or 9.Alysanne - died of broken heart soon after Princess GaelJocelyn Baratheon - one child (daughter Rhaenys), fate unknownPrincess Alyssa - two sons (Viserys and Daemon), fate unknownAemma Arryn - died in childbirthAlicent Hightower - left by fleeing Rhaenyra in golden chains at Red Keep, further fate not clearHelaena - fell off a window of Maegor´s Holdfast. Various explanations offered. The two circulating ones are intentional suicide, and murder by someone like Luthor Largent. But note that she was not sane. Are there plausible alternatives, like attempting to climb out of the window, or just lean out of the window to look?Jaehaera - also fall out of window. Was it positively inspired by similar fall of Helaena? And then inspiring whom - Jaehaera or her assassins? She was not a sane adult either. She was ten when she fell. Also, when she was young, she was noted to not smile. Yet when she was 6, the twins were mentioned to have listened to grandfather with attention. So, how normal or otherwise was she when she was 10? She must have been disappointed to survive for half an hour, unlike her mother who died instantly of a spike chancing through her throat. Odd, though, that nobody had thought to childproof the window of her room after the example of her mother. Again, no one mentions the possibility of intent to climb out of ´window or lean out to look.Daenaera Velaryon - five children, fate unknownQueen Daena - divorced, then imprisoned in Maidenvault. Bore Daemon. Her uncle usurped her throne, for her imprisonment had hampered recruitment of supporters.Larra Rogare - three children, left her family and went home, further fate unknownQueen Naerys - two children, fate unknownMariah Martell - four sons, fate unknownAelinor Penrose - childless because unconsummated, fate unknownBaelor Breakspear´s wife - ?Rhaegel´s wife - ?Aelora - as a childless widow attacked by Rat, Hawk and Pig, slew herselfMaekar´s wife - 6 children, died before 209Daeron the Drunk´s wife - what became of her and Vaella the Simple?Aerion´s wife - what became of her and Maegor?Black BethaSaera - stayed with Jaehaerys in Red Keep during 9p War, therefore survived Summerhall. Fate unknown.Rhaella - died in bearing DaenerysElia - killed and raped by GregorSo, what is known about these gaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Queen Naerys - two children, fate unknown She's stated to have died in childbirth soon after the death of the Dragonknight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Queen Daena - divorced, then imprisoned in Maidenvault. Bore Daemon. Her uncle usurped her throne, for her imprisonment had hampered recruitment of supporters. Daena claimed Viserys usurped her, but that position isn't really supported considering the results of the Dance of the Dragons and the laws of succession to the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamourweaver Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Daena claimed Viserys usurped her, but that position isn't really supported considering the results of the Dance of the Dragons and the laws of succession to the Iron Throne. Which would seem to indicate the Throne is passed MORE agnatically than other lordships, as while sons come before daughters even if younger (outside of Dorne), for lordly seats a daughter would come before the dead-lord's brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 She's stated to have died in childbirth soon after the death of the Dragonknight. Right, thanks. By Andal law, Aegon was ahead of Rhaenyra, not because women could not inherit but because they come after younger brethren. After younger brethren but before uncles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamourweaver Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Right, thanks. By Andal law, Aegon was ahead of Rhaenyra, not because women could not inherit but because they come after younger brethren. After younger brethren but before uncles. But under that reading it should have been Jaehaera that was the inheriting monarch from her father, not his nephew Aegon III. Given they were briefly married of course to add more legitimacy to Aegon III, but it was still he who succeeded his uncle to the throne from the beginning. So the settlement of the Dance did give a stronger agnatic precedent than normal Andal succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 But under that reading it should have been Jaehaera that was the inheriting monarch from her father, not his nephew Aegon III. Given they were briefly married of course to add more legitimacy to Aegon III, but it was still he who succeeded his uncle to the throne from the beginning. So the settlement of the Dance did give a stronger agnatic precedent than normal Andal succession. Yes, that is pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Baelor Breakspear´s wife - ? Rhaegel´s wife - ? Breakspear; Jena Dondarrion Rhaegel; Alys Arryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Maekers wife was Dyanna Dayne.Kiera of Tyrosh was the wife of both Daeron the Drunkard and Valarr.Obviously Tyrosh was important if they felt the need to keep marrying her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 But under that reading it should have been Jaehaera that was the inheriting monarch from her father, not his nephew Aegon III. Given they were briefly married of course to add more legitimacy to Aegon III, but it was still he who succeeded his uncle to the throne from the beginning. So the settlement of the Dance did give a stronger agnatic precedent than normal Andal succession. Or no clear precedent at all. Aegon III was the rightful King by two very different theories. Either by Viserys I-s will: Viserys->Rhaenyra->Aegon, with Aegon II always an usurper for Blacks. Or by Salic law: Viserys->Aegon II->(Daemon, predeceased)->Aegon III. But not by Andal law (which would have been Viserys->Aegon II->Jaehaera suo jure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Alicent was kept locked up until her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Alicent was kept locked up until her death. Kept locked up by whom? Aegon II was back on Iron Throne for some months, so he surely wasn´t keeping his mother locked up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baela of Pentos Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Kept locked up by whom? Aegon II was back on Iron Throne for some months, so he surely wasn´t keeping his mother locked up...But then Aegon III and the Blacks came in, so presumably then she was imprisoned. Ran confirmed it on the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Snark of Winterfell Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 "10. Jeyne Westerling - died after stillbirth. Note that the tally is just 6 - a SSM states 8 or 9." SSM states 8 or 9 Targ Queens or 8 or 9 stillbirths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Magpies Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 "10. Jeyne Westerling - died after stillbirth. Note that the tally is just 6 - a SSM states 8 or 9." SSM states 8 or 9 Targ Queens or 8 or 9 stillbirths? 8 or 9 queens/wives for Maegor, as far as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Alicent was kept locked up until her death. Which is a pity. She deserved a way worse fate than simply imprisonment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Which is a pity. She deserved a way worse fate than simply imprisonment. All her children were dead. And she had 1 trueborn grandchild surviving out of 3. (Plus the bunch of Aegon´s bastards, plus Aemond´s). Who imprisoned her - Corlys, or Cregan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 All her children were dead. And she had 1 trueborn grandchild surviving out of 3. (Plus the bunch of Aegon´s bastards, plus Aemond´s). Still not as bad as she deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Still not as bad as she deserved. What did the Greens at Storm´s End, Oldtown and Casterly Rock think of her imprisonment? It would have sounded as a threat to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Green Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 What did the Greens at Storm´s End, Oldtown and Casterly Rock think of her imprisonment? It would have sounded as a threat to them. I don't know about the Hightowers, but I expect the Baratheons and Lannisters would have by that point thought that she had led them into a ruinous and losing war, and thus were glad to be done with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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