MichelleGarvey Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 What are peoples' views on genderswap fiction?One quite interesting fantasy series that has a genderswap as a majorplot point was L. Frank Baum's original Oz series.Book #2 involves a young boy who gets involved in a quest to find amissing princess who was kidnapped as a baby by a witch. It turns outthat the guilty witch is none other than the adoptive mother of theboy. Glinda interrogates the witch and forces her to divulge what shedid with the princess. The witch reveals that she transformed theprincess."Into what?""a boy"So the book ends with the protagonist being told that he must returnto his true form, the aforementioned princess. By book #3, she's themost frilly girly-girl in the entire universe.have you noticed that in most boy-to-girl genderswaps, the author hasthe new girl become extremely feminine - the character never stops tosay "you may want me to wear lipstick and dresses and perfume, but idon't!". That's what pisses me off about the "Oz" genderswap - Baumhas the restored princess say "I'm still the same old Tip" but by thenext book she's wearing everything you'd think of as women's fashionsand is very girly and an expert on Princess-ing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buff daddy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I read the first two Bone Doll books by Lynn Flewelling and, iirc, the main character held on to most of her more masculine traits and habits she developed as a boy and resented a lot of the girly stuff people expected of her after the change. I don't know how this progressed in the third installment, but unless it jumped far ahead in time I imagine she'd still be mostly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Is "The Left Hand of Darkness" relevant in this thread? Not the same as gender swapping as the people on the planet are hermaphroditic most of the year, but I think some of the same themes are prevalent. EDIT: I think it is more accurate to say they are sexless rather than hermaphroditic in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentRoamer Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I bought The Female Man by Joanna Russ - guess this may be relevant to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Banks touches on it a bit in Excession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Is "The Left Hand of Darkness" relevant in this thread? Not the same as gender swapping as the people on the planet are hermaphroditic most of the year, but I think some of the same themes are prevalent. EDIT: I think it is more accurate to say they are sexless rather than hermaphroditic in the book. That's the book that I thought of immediately. It's completely fascinating and wonderful, IMO. What was particularly interesting was how each person on Winter was capable of becoming male or female based on how they interacted with another. I adore this book! :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 What are peoples' views on genderswap fiction?One quite interesting fantasy series that has a genderswap as a majorplot point was L. Frank Baum's original Oz series.Book #2 involves a young boy who gets involved in a quest to find amissing princess who was kidnapped as a baby by a witch. It turns outthat the guilty witch is none other than the adoptive mother of theboy. Glinda interrogates the witch and forces her to divulge what shedid with the princess. The witch reveals that she transformed theprincess."Into what?""a boy"So the book ends with the protagonist being told that he must returnto his true form, the aforementioned princess. By book #3, she's themost frilly girly-girl in the entire universe.have you noticed that in most boy-to-girl genderswaps, the author hasthe new girl become extremely feminine - the character never stops tosay "you may want me to wear lipstick and dresses and perfume, but idon't!". That's what pisses me off about the "Oz" genderswap - Baumhas the restored princess say "I'm still the same old Tip" but by thenext book she's wearing everything you'd think of as women's fashionsand is very girly and an expert on Princess-ing. I guess I can understand some of your frustration, but I also think you are somewhat reading back a modern sensibility into a children's story written more than a century ago. Ozma of Oz, the third book in Baum's series, was published in 1907. Baum does always present Ozma as being a wise and effective ruler, which in and of itself was going against gender stereotypes in those days. One could even argue that the concept of someone with the physical appearance of a beautiful and frilly fourteen year old girl being the wise ruler of a nation is actually a fairly strong feminist statement for its time. And isn't the depiction of a woman as an effective monarch more important for gender equality than her liking to wear traditionally feminine clothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 By the way, if anyone hasn't read Left Hand of Darkness yet, if you don't want to be spoiled do NOT read the Wiki on it. I read it not knowing what to expect, and the experience was all the richer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Go buy Elminster: The Making of a Mage by Ed Greenwood. It is a politically-charged story set against a rich backdrop of mythology and folklore in which the titular protagonist must orchestrate a mass peasants' uprising against politically corrupt tyrants. And it involves gender-swapping Elminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alytha Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 You have to read Mary Gentle. There's a crossdresser, woman / man in an unsual role, hermaphrodite or similar in every single one of her books and I think she does quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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