Slight crackpot: was Viserys II actually the son of Rhaenyra?

[shockwave]

when Baelor was alive it wasn't clear who exactly the heir was. Daena was considered but was passed over due to being locked up and not having allies, plus she also had a bastard. If Daena wasn't locked up and had a powerfull husband the throne could have gone to her. Baelor probably never thought about who would have to succeed him.

[The silver dragon]

yes yes he is. because as we see with dany who is descended from Viserys II hatches 3 dragon's, if she had no dragonlord blood in her vein's this would not have been possible. roagre of Lys was a dragon lord family.

[Colonel Green]

when Baelor was alive it wasn't clear who exactly the heir was. Daena was considered but was passed over due to being locked up and not having allies, plus she also had a bastard. If Daena wasn't locked up and had a powerfull husband the throne could have gone to her. Baelor probably never thought about who would have to succeed him.

While some thought Daena should be queen, I think there was a pretty clear presumption that Viserys and his line would succeed -- among other things, the Dornish had arranged peace terms via marriage of Viserys' grandson Daeron, and I doubt they would have made such a match if Daeron was assumed to be nothing more than the potential head of a distant cadet branch.

[shockwave]

While some thought Daena should be queen, I think there was a pretty clear presumption that Viserys and his line would succeed -- among other things, the Dornish had arranged peace terms via marriage of Viserys' grandson Daeron, and I doubt they would have made such a match if Daeron was assumed to be nothing more than the potential head of a distant cadet branch.

Daeron was indeed was the potential head of a cadet branch. It was only an arranged marriage to make peace, he wasn't necessarily in line for the throne. Daeron was the only unmarried male targ available. THe only other two unmarried targs at the time were baelor's youngest sisters, Aemon doesn't count due to KG vows.

The dornish (and Viserys and everyone else) might have assumed Baelor would start making babies when he's back in King's Landing. They had no idea he would lock his sisters up.

Baelor never thought a second who should succeed him. He only cared about being holy. Never forget that the dude was batshit insane (and major hyppocrite). Baelor was to scared to consummate his marriage because he believed sex was sinfull.

[Lord Varys]

Baelor made the match between Daeron and Mariah while he was still married to Daena. The Martells would have expected that Baelor would continue the royal line of House Targaryen. Only after the viper pit incident and his return to KL did he dissolve his marriage, and only later did he ensure that he would never have any legitimate descendants by becoming a septon.

It does not seem that Viserys was named Prince of Dragonstone by Baelor, as there was discussion about the succession upon Baelor's early death. This would not have been the case if Viserys had been the acknowledged and chosen heir of Baelor I.

[Colonel Green]

Baelor had already refused to consummate his marriage to Daena when he went to Sunspear, and had maintained that stance for some time.

[Lord Varys]

He claimed that he did not consummate it. We don't really if that was actually the case (the whole Maidenvault thing could suggest otherwise). However, even if he did not consummate the marriage, it is clear that no one expected him to resolve it, or to become a septon.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

That does make me wonder... What on earth did Viserys and the court think about the succession? I mean, they had ten years to consider it.. they must have had some ideas.

[shockwave]

Viserys was probably quietly in pole position to inherit the throne, with Baelor's sisters locked up. But there was no formal prince of Dragonstone.

and Baelor did not consummate his marriage. Daena dressed in white because Baelor didn't consummate his marriage, in the hope it would shame him into consummating it. Baelor however liked Daena in white because it makes her seem innocent.

I suppose the timeline went like this:

Aegon III or Daeron I tells Baelor he will marry his sister.

Baelor marries his sister with extreme reluctance.

He refused to consummate the marriage. Daena vows to only wear white until baelor consummates the marriage.

Daeron I gets killed in Dorne.

Baelor gets crowned and travels to Dorne and makes peace.

After a long recovery he gets back to KL.

Baelor talks the High Septon into dissolving the marriage.

Baelor orders his sisters locked up and has himself made a septon.

[Lord Varys]

I assume Viserys was pretty sure he would inherit the throne. After all, as Hand he would have been in charge of discussing the succession anyway. However, there may have been other possibilities. Viserys most likely expected that Aegon's sons would outlive him, so he and Baelor may have eventually settled on Prince Daeron as Baelor's eventual successor, rather than Viserys or Aegon. I'm pretty sure Baelor would not have handed the throne to Aegon had he ruled 30 years instead of 10.

Viserys may have also refused to be named Prince of Dragonstone to force/enable Baelor to take a (new) wife and father an heir himself.

Nothing suggests that he actually wanted to take the Iron Throne.

And as I've said earlier, I'm pretty sure Viserys did not want Aegon to succeed him, too - or at least he would have decided to pass his son over in favor of his grandson had he ruled longer.

[shockwave]

if baelor died a year later, or viserys a year earlier, the throne might not have gone to aegon. Viserys became king because he was hand and the GC knew him well. If Viserys pre-deceased Baelor, the GC might have crowned Daena because they hated Aegon. And its doubtfull Daena would be worse then Daeron I or Baelor anyway.

[Lord Varys]

By that time no one hated Prince Aegon. He was a very smart ('the wittiest prince of his age') and amiable fellow, and most of his bad traits only manifested themselves after he came to power.

There was also no Great Council in 171 AC. Just some discussions/deliberations at court, possibly among the courtiers and Lords of the Small Council. Daena's power base was non-existent and her supporters were apparently too few to demand a Great Council.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

He claimed that he did not consummate it. We don't really if that was actually the case (the whole Maidenvault thing could suggest otherwise). However, even if he did not consummate the marriage, it is clear that no one expected him to resolve it, or to become a septon.

The wiki says that the reason Daena wore white was to shame Baelor into properly consummating their marriage (didn't work). So I guess he really didn't.

[Aemond's Eye]

By that time no one hated Prince Aegon. He was a very smart ('the wittiest prince of his age') and amiable fellow, and most of his bad traits only manifested themselves after he came to power.

I agree that he definitely became a lot worse once he ascended to the throne, but I'd say that it sounds like his bad traits were already manifesting, but Viserys was to some degree keeping a leash on him. I mean, Viserys already married off one of Aegon's mistresses and persuaded Aegon III to then name her husband Lord of Harrenhal, and then sent another back to her husband and her bastard daughter's were given to the faith.

Before reading AWOIAF I figured that Aegon IV was in control of his appetites until he became king and used his position to basically gorge on food and fancy, but I'm not so sure now. He clearly wasn't as bad when he was merely Prince Aegon, but it seems that his father may have been a large part of the reason why, rather than Aegon himself.

[Lord Varys]

A lot of Targaryen princes had mistresses, that was no big deal. Viserys did apparently not approve, possibly because Aegon was married to Naerys, but that would have been no big deal for anyone else, I assume. Certainly not enough to cause anyone to hate or mistrust Aegon.

Not to mention that Aegon's shrewdness was effectively the reason why he became such a worse king, not the whole gluttony and whoring stuff. He just decided to rule bad and manipulate people because he wanted to. It is pretty clear that he caused the Blackfyre Rebellion(s), not Daemon or Aegor. He set them - and Daeron II - up like pieces on a board, and they danced to his tune, even after his death.

[Aemond's Eye]

Well, having a mistress is one thing - 'buying' a blacksmith's wife is another.

I'd say the gluttony and whoring tie directly into Aegon IV being shrewd, to be honest. He used his natural intellect and charm to satisfy those appetites.

[Biter the Gallant]

Even if Aegon IV. was an amiable fellow as a prince, we are still speaking about the man who seems to had no problems with sending Casella Vaith back among the other Dornish hostages - to be executed. Only Baelor saved her. I imagine Aegon as a quite intelligent and humurous guy, who did not care about anyone or anything else in his whole life just himself.