Jaime Will be King

[ThePosterThatWasPromised]

I actually don't hate this theory, as far as interestingness goes.... but I disagree with it wholeheartedly and think there's absolutely no chance of it coming true.

I really like that idea of Bran somehow becoming a bad guy. But the Lannister children (all three) are Tywin and Joanna's.

[Bandit Territory]

I don't recall that they spoke, but if I recall correctly Jamie mentions he met her briefly later. Besides, its clear Sansa's knight is the Hound. He was, after all, her first "kiss."

I thought Joffrey was her first kiss? Was that only in the show, I can't remember as far the books go.

[Ser RoddyRuinuous]

Sad, such a long OP written in vain.

:agree:

[Michael Snow]

Blinks, and blinks again. Well, for starters I appreciate you taking the time to read it.

As for Ser Barristan, I doubt he would suddenly remember Aerys "rapping" Joanna anymore than Jaime would suddenly remember Aerys "rapping" Rhaella. Jaime never forgot, he just never told anyone.

There's no hip-hop in Westeros.

[Bandit Territory]

There's no hip-hop in Westeros.

Whoops! :eek: :blushing: Oh well, I think most people got what I meant. Though I will admit that comment of mine is pretty funny when read phonetically instead of how it was intended.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

Do kingsguard vows allow for inheritance?

I think that the same logic which prevents Jon from being king also prevent Jaime, as well.

[Lord Reaper oOo]

If Jaime sits the Iron Throne, I will use the books as target practice.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

Jaime HAS sat on the throne.

[markg171]

Do kingsguard vows allow for inheritance?

I think that the same logic which prevents Jon from being king also prevent Jaime, as well.

There's kind of conflicting evidence

“Kingslayer,” Ned said. The rumors were true, then. He rode on dangerous ground now, he knew. “An able and courageous man, no doubt,” he said carefully, “but his father is Warden of the West, Robert. In time Ser Jaime will succeed to that honor. No one man should hold both East and West.” He left unsaid his real concern; that the appointment would put half the armies of the realm into the hands of Lannisters.

“I will fight that battle when the enemy appears on the field,” the king said stubbornly. “At the moment, Lord Tywin looms eternal as Casterly Rock, so I doubt that Jaime will be succeeding anytime soon. Don’t vex me about this, Ned, the stone has been set.”

Sansa watched as the knight peered up at his new king. She had never seen him look his years before, yet now he did. “Your Grace,” he said. “I was chosen for the White Swords in my twenty-third year. It was all I had ever dreamed, from the moment I first took sword in hand. I gave up all claim to my ancestral keep. The girl I was to wed married my cousin in my place, I had no need of land or sons, my life would be lived for the realm. Ser Gerold Hightower himself heard my vows... to ward the king with all my strength... to give my blood for his... I fought beside the White Bull and Prince Lewyn of Dorne... beside Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the

Morning. Before I served your father, I helped shield King Aerys, and his father Jaehaerys before him... three kings...”

“The king and council have determined that no man in the Seven Kingdoms is more fit to guard and protect His Grace than his sworn shield, Sandor Clegane.”

“How do you like that, dog?” King Joffrey asked.

The Hound’s scarred face was hard to read. He took a long moment to consider. “Why not? I have no lands nor wife to forsake, and who’d care if I did?” The burned side of his mouth twisted. “But I warn you, I’ll say no knight’s vows.”

Now it might just be that they can't inherit land, but Ned and Robert both seemed sure that Jaime would inherit the Warden of the West title. Which indicates that at least some level of inheritance is allowed.

[Lord Reaper oOo]

Jaime HAS sat on the throne.

Siigh. That's true.

If Jaime sits the Iron Throne as King, I will use the books for target practice.

...and the DVDs as well. Not sure you could find anyone who hates Jaime more than I do.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

markg171 That exchange between Bob and Ned is interesting, as it happens to be about Jaime specifically.

Perhaps it was expected that Tywin would use his influence to have Jaime released of his vows, he may have even begun to bark up that tree already, even though Jaime seems to have been comfortable where he was, constantly close to Cersei.

This has me pretty confused now, to be honest.

I like Jaime, a lot. I don't think he should be king, though.

[NiccoloPiccolo]

Blinks, and blinks again. Well, for starters I appreciate you taking the time to read it.

As for Ser Barristan, I doubt he would suddenly remember Aerys "rapping" Joanna anymore than Jaime would suddenly remember Aerys "rapping" Rhaella. Jaime never forgot, he just never told anyone.

In my personal opinion I see Bran going that way, but time will tell. As for GRRM and his writing, well, I've learned to never dicount anything when it comes to him.

As for proof, the twins would face the same problem Jon would. Yet, I do seem to recall some dragonseed in the past being legitmized because they were bastard Targaryen's, and them being able to tame a dragon was proof enough for house Targaryen at the time. A certain Addam Velaryon rings a bell. *shrugs*

Once again thanks for reading, and we can agree to disagree.

So really your theory is that Jaime is going to tame a dragon and thereby convince everyone that he's a Targaryen. And then Dany is going to legitimize him even though he killed her father and then she will die, making Jaime king.

Not. Gonna. Happen. Any of that. At all. I would put money on it.

[markg171]

markg171 That exchange between Bob and Ned is interesting, as it happens to be about Jaime specifically.

Perhaps it was expected that Tywin would use his influence to have Jaime released of his vows, he may have even begun to bark up that tree already, even though Jaime seems to have been comfortable where he was, constantly close to Cersei.

This has me pretty confused now, to be honest.

I like Jaime, a lot. I don't think he should be king, though.

Well then there's also this about Jaime

“You have important letters, yes.” Tyrion rose on unsteady legs, closed his eyes for an instant as a wave of dizziness washed over him, and took a shaky step toward the door. Later, he would reflect that he should have taken a second, and then a third. instead he turned. “What do I want, you ask? I’ll tell you what I want. I want what is mine by rights. I want Casterly Rock.”

His father’s mouth grew hard. “Your brother’s birthright?”

“The knights of the Kingsguard are forbidden to marry, to father children, and to hold land, you know that as well as I. The day Jaime put on that white cloak, he gave up his claim to Casterly Rock, but never once have you acknowledged it. It’s past time. I want you to stand up before the realm and proclaim that I am your son and your lawful heir.”

Tyrion says that KG specifically can't marry, father children, or hold land. From Tyrion's list though, there's nothing there about titles which would make sense that Ned and Robert both think Jaime will be Warden of the West when Tywin dies as that's not something he can't possess.

As far possibily getting Jaime out of his vows

“It was poison that killed Joffrey, not sorcery.” Lord Tywin glanced at Jaime’s stump again. “You cannot serve in the Kingsguard without a sword hand -”

“I can,” he interrupted. “And I will. There’s precedent. I’ll look in the White Book and find it, if you like. Crippled or whole, a knight of the Kingsguard serves for life.”

“Cersei ended that when she replaced Ser Barristan on grounds of age. A suitable gift to the Faith will persuade the High Septon to release you from your vows. Your sister was foolish to dismiss Selmy, admittedly, but now that she has opened the gates -”

[Bandit Territory]

Do kingsguard vows allow for inheritance?

I think that the same logic which prevents Jon from being king also prevent Jaime, as well.

Well, Joffrey did set a precedent in dismissing Ser Barristan from the King’s Guard. Also, Stannis was going to let Jon renounce his vows so he could be Lord of Winterfell.

We don’t know the exact vows the King’s Guard swear, but I guessing it’s along the lines of those sworn my the Nights Watch. Plus, I don’t know about in the books, but in the show Jaime said he would take his place as Tywin’s son and heir if he let Tyrion live. He can’t do that if he’s still part of the King’s Guard. So to me at least it’s not that big of an issue to overcome.

[Bandit Territory]

So really your theory is that Jaime is going to tame a dragon and thereby convince everyone that he's a Targaryen. And then Dany is going to legitimize him even though he killed her father and then she will die, making Jaime king.

Not. Gonna. Happen. Any of that. At all. I would put money on it.

Stranger things have happened. GRRM has a tendency to do things his readers least expect. I honestly doubt very many of us saw the Red Wedding coming; or Ned getting his head chopped off, or Jaime his sword hand chopped off, or Oberyn dying as he did, or Tywin and Joffrey dying as they did for that matter.

I am of the opinion we have met the future King and Queen; they are both POV characters, AND they were both present at Winterfell, from the beginning. Now, that leaves Jon, Jaime, and Sansa as far as I'm concerned. I honestly don't think Jon will be king.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

@markg171

I'd like to point out that the exchange between Tywin and Jaime occured after Barristan was dismissed, which had set the precedence, which the next sentence after the bolded sentence points out.

Tyrion points out specifically that the vows prevent one from holding land. Of course, if Tywin could get his nephew and and a septon to release him from his vows, then Jaime could inherit land, it wouldn't be too difficult. I said before I think it's possible Tywin had already brought up this topic with Robert, and potentially had a plan set.

What I would like to point out as an important factor is that Jaime literally refused the suggestion from Tywin in this same quote you included. I will continue on to mention that this is another direct similarity to Jon who also refused an offer to be released from his vows for a high lordship.

Jaime doesn't have any interest in ruling, as mentioned when his absence is noted by the small council. He belongs on the Battlefield, not on the throne.

Though, if he sat on the throne as comfortably as his main picture on the wiki, I thing it quite impressive he didn't sustain any injuries, seeing as the throne apparently has a mind of its own and cuts those who are not fit for it. However, he WAS wearing armor which might have been protection, which furthers my point that he is a fighter, not a ruler.

[Bandit Territory]

@markg171

I'd like to point out that the exchange between Tywin and Jaime occured after Barristan was dismissed, which had set the precedence, which the next sentence after the bolded sentence points out.

Tyrion points out specifically that the vows prevent one from holding land. Of course, if Tywin could get his nephew and and a septon to release him from his vows, then Jaime could inherit land, it wouldn't be too difficult. I said before I think it's possible Tywin had already brought up this topic with Robert, and potentially had a plan set.

What I would like to point out as an important factor is that Jaime literally refused the suggestion from Tywin in this same quote you included. I will continue on to mention that this is another direct similarity to Jon who also refused an offer to be released from his vows for a high lordship.

Jaime doesn't have any interest in ruling, as mentioned when his absence is noted by the small council. He belongs on the Battlefield, not on the throne.

Though, if he sat on the throne as comfortably as his main picture on the wiki, I thing it quite impressive he didn't sustain any injuries, seeing as the throne apparently has a mind of its own and cuts those who are not fit for it. However, he WAS wearing armor which might have been protection, which furthers my point that he is a fighter, not a ruler.

I fully agree that he doesn't want it. As Joanna said “We all dream of things we cannot have.” Jaime wants to be free from King’s Landing and the games played there. He lust for battle, not power as Tyrion himself said. Jaime being king isn’t some sort of reward, quite the opposite actually. I believe he will be saddled with the last thing in the world he ever wanted. Jaime wants to be free to fight in battles for glory. Yet, he has lost his sword hand, and Jaime in his redemption arc is trying to be the best leader he can be. Jaime’s character growth is not finished, the man he is now won’t be the man he will be two books from now. Jaime will accept being King by that point if for no other reason than to help the people of Westeros, and try to atone for his sins. Now, that might not be how you would go about atoning; but if people like Stannis, Daenerys, Jon, and Aegon are dead, then the last thing you want to do is create a power vacuum and another war in Westeros because you refuse to sit on the Iron Throne again.

Jaime sitting on the throne after killing Aerys is (in my opinion) a great piece of foreshadowing. I also think that the promo the show did with Jaime sitting on the throne was a hint, but that may just be me.

[Amris]

Great theory and fun reading.

Whether any of it is true or not we'll learn in due time. To me it doesn't matter. I trust GRRMs story will continue to be a great read whichever way he chooses and whoever ends up on the IT in the end.

What matters to me is that I had some nice minutes this morning reading your post.

[Bandit Territory]

Great theory and fun reading.

Whether any of it is true or not we'll learn in due time. To me it doesn't matter. I trust GRRMs story will continue to be a great read whichever way he chooses and whoever ends up on the IT in the end.

What matters to me is that I had some nice minutes this morning reading your post.

Thank you:-) I agree time will tell, and I had a lot fun coming up with this. I'm glad my post gave you some nice minutes this morning.

[Eija]

As mentioned: The position as king would actually be quite the bittersweet ending for Jaime imo

And credit to you for daring to post something different these days ^_^

The bolded part of this:

@markg171

I'd like to point out that the exchange between Tywin and Jaime occured after Barristan was dismissed, which had set the precedence, which the next sentence after the bolded sentence points out.

Tyrion points out specifically that the vows prevent one from holding land. Of course, if Tywin could get his nephew and and a septon to release him from his vows, then Jaime could inherit land, it wouldn't be too difficult. I said before I think it's possible Tywin had already brought up this topic with Robert, and potentially had a plan set.

What I would like to point out as an important factor is that Jaime literally refused the suggestion from Tywin in this same quote you included. I will continue on to mention that this is another direct similarity to Jon who also refused an offer to be released from his vows for a high lordship.

Jaime doesn't have any interest in ruling, as mentioned when his absence is noted by the small council. He belongs on the Battlefield, not on the throne.

Though, if he sat on the throne as comfortably as his main picture on the wiki, I thing it quite impressive he didn't sustain any injuries, seeing as the throne apparently has a mind of its own and cuts those who are not fit for it. However, he WAS wearing armor which might have been protection, which furthers my point that he is a fighter, not a ruler.

It must be at least somewhat significant that the throne has "opinions" of the ones sitting it..