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Amris

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  1. Over the last 10 years I couldn't help to now and again think about why our author finds it harder and harder to write the books in the series. We all know that the gaps between books are getting longer. Not somewhat longer. Not even linearly longer. Exponentially longer: 2-3 years for the first 3 books. 5 years for book 4. 6 years for book 5. 10 years and counting for the next installment. We also know that GRRM would like to have the next book finished long since. And we can bet that he's been working hard on it. So the issue is not lack of trying or lack of will on his part. We all know the above and I admit it has been discussed many times. By putting it up there I just wanted to set the stage for what I am about to suggest: I know it is not really practical since books 3-5 have long been out there and printed. Nevertheless: the issue which makes it ever harder to continue the story is that book 3 went off the rails. Fixing the story would need fixing book 3 first. I am very sure writing the other books would be a lot easier then. And no - I do not hate book 3. Storm of Swords has great parts. Some of the best fantasy I have ever read. It also has serious issues though. That is the problem. Book 3 is where the number of secondary plots and secondary and tertiary characters got out of hand. Book 3 is where the foundation that would have been needed to implement the 5 year gap wasn't set. The issues with books 4 and 5 have their roots there. And I can pretty safely guess that the struggle with book 6 has its roots there too. 3 should be fixed to have 4-7 go more smoothly. Not practical I know, sorry. But still.
  2. The question in the OP will likely not arise in the series. That's because a Dany baby would not fit in the story: If the story aims at putting Bran on the throne and killing off Daenerys then a baby would just be in the way. So no baby, fertile or no. Dragon or no.
  3. And that is one of the interesting things of the Daenerys arc to me: that it tells us something about us. Us readers. How far are we willing to accompany Dany? Which excuses are we willing to accept? Is there a point when we say - no, I can't go there with you? Or will we accept everything she does? Sometimes I wonder if we are part of a new Milgram Experiment. (That was the guy who famously tested how far people are willing to go to torture others if only an authority figure tells them to.) It is of course possible that Dany will stay away from giant atrocities and actually offer a viable alternative to the current management in KL. Even in that case the question remains: where do I personally draw the line? What can be accepted for the 'higher cause' even if I dislike it? And that I am willing to accept it: what does that say about me?
  4. I didn't say he changed his mind. What I mean is that he may say things that he thinks are true but that aren't necessarily when viewed from another perspective. For example my impression is that he thinks he has spotted certain weaknesses in Tolkien's LotR. Since he publicly talks about this it is more or less a necessity that he tells himself (and others) that he will avoid these weaknesses. But thinking this and doing it are two different things. Sauron is pretty one-dimensional, true. And one might see that as a weakness in the LotR. (I don't - I think Sauron makes sense in the context of the book - but others don't see it this way.) Now in GRRM's series we see a lot of villains that have different sides and motivations and are no Sauron at all. Testament to GRRM trying to avoid the one-dimension. However we also see a Euron and a Victarion. That's what I mean with thinking and doing being two different things. It's not easy to entirely avoid the one-dimensionalness. Now back to Dany who after all is the topic of this thread: I don't think Dany is a a one-dimensional character at all. And that's even though yes, I do think that she is partly modeled on the Dark Overlord trope. But that trope has been brillantly turned on its head. If people in this thread think that I want to diminish Dany or critizice George about how he set up Dany then they are mistaken. I don't like everything about the books but I do like what GRRM did to create Dany. I find it very interesting how on the one hand she reflects Sauron but on the other hand makes us understand her motivations and even feel for her. And the most interesting thing is what book Dany does to us - us readers. How do we see her and her acts (some of which are very gory if you think of it). And why do we see what we see? I at least am not so sure about myself and whether my opinion of her and her actions is really warranted. That's pretty cool I think.
  5. What people say and what they do are two different things. Martin is no exception.
  6. You do realize that in AsoIaF the visions that are associated with 'religion' (weirwood net for instance) are actually magical and not religious at all? People ascribe them to 'religion' but they aren't. That's what he shows us. It's not religion at all - only the believers persuade themselves it was.
  7. Very good post. I would like to add that I don't think GRRM is mentally able to have a beautiful warrior queen blessed with 3 dragons succeed in the end. I think being beautiful AND successful is just too much for him. Not to mention 3 dragons ontop of it. Many readers are the same. They somehow feel threatened by the thought of a successful person being also good looking. That's not allowed. Taboo. Notice for instance how for GRRM Tyrion's being a small person wasn't enough handicap to allow him into his world. He couldn't be small and good looking (like Peter Dinklage). No, in the books he had to me small AND ugly. That's not enough either: he also had to be disfigured. And not just any old disfigurement: no, he had to lose is nose and get an awful scar right through is face. As if he wasn't handicapped enough from the start. And then Bran. If we believe the rumor that Bran will be king in the end I can't fail to notice that GRRM had to cripple him first. I don't think a non-crippled or non-ugly person would be allowed to win in GRRM's story. Brienne is the same. What a cool character she could be basically. The operative word being could. But again GRRM had do overdo it with the amount of handicaps. Brienne is a woman who has the already huge problem that in a patriarchal world her interest lies in a 'manly' profession, being a fighter, wanting to be a knight. What a giant amount of story lies in this difficulty alone! But is this handicap enough? Not for GRRM. Ontop of her already huge problem of not fitting into the mysogynitic society she lives in she also has to be ugly and a brute. And that's still not enough. Like Tyrion she has to be disfigured on her way. And only after all that be finally allowed some success in the end (I hope, for so far GRRM heaped failure upon failure for her). Now we have good-looking fighters too. The sand-snakes. But do we really believe they will come out ontop in the end? I don't. They look good ergo they'll fail. I think it's as easy as that.
  8. She is how old in Dance? 15? 16? And she's been learning on the go. She hasn't been tought how to rule or how to to wise politics or how to free slave cities and then pacify them. All that considered she did amazingly well. I wouldn't have been able to do any of that at all at that age. And yes, she did make mistakes. Who doesn't though? And as a teenager?
  9. To the OP: I have come to the conclusion that Martin took the Dark Overlord trope (think Sauron) and stood it on its head. What if the Dark Overlord isn't a black, brutish guy but instead a beautiful, blonde young girl? What if the Dark Overlord doesn't simply do evil for evil's sake but has understandable motives, some of them even admirable? What if the Dark Overlord actually as a valid claim to the throne? I think we are witnessing an experiment on how readers react when the Dark Overlord trope does not come with its usual trappings but looks harmless and pretty and has not only ambition but also a desire to help. Do we readers suddenly find their actions okay? Are we more forgiving than we would be otherwise? If we look deeper though all of Dany's partly noble motivations and good looks can't quite hide that at the core she pulls a Sauron: - She has an army of brutal, rapist savages - She has three fire-breathing monsters that can lay waste to entire cities - She is an invader from a foreign country - She comes to conquer the whole continent I also think and hope though that Martin has given Dany a more versatile role than Tolkien gave Sauron. I do think that Dany will help against the White Walkers and possibly even sacrifice her life in that war. So she may be a Sauron who ends up on the right side in the end. We will see. Anyways: A very important character even if she does not end up on the throne. Edit: As to who ends up on the throne we know that from the show. Not that I'm happy with it.
  10. But the Blackfyre backstory does not have to be Aegon's backstory to be important to the main story! That's because the Blackfyre story is important to explain the Golden Company's existence. It describes the background of Aegon's army, not necessarily Aegon himself. It explains why Aegon could suddenly get an army when needed, why said army exists at the right time and in the right place and with a motivation to conquer Westeros. Very convenient if you think about it. Hard to believe if it came out of nowhere. But the Blackfyre story explains it. Of course it could also explain Aegon's background. But even if not then the Blackfyre story would have to be there. Page count, time and effort and all.
  11. Mercy is my fav ASoIaF chapter ever. To me it is perfect. So perfect that I have read it over and over again just to enjoy it. So I am curious: Why do you think it has to be revised or rewritten even?
  12. I say he has 1521 pages. However not all of them will really end up in Winds. Some will be scrapped, some reworked and others edited. So he still has writing and editing to do.
  13. Nice one I don't think for a second GRRM really means Littlefinger - but yeah, cool! Baelish qualifies. How ironic. PS: I wanted to quote Stannis Baratheon*, not you, but hey. Wrong click.
  14. Thank you for starting yet another HotU thread. That's my fav topic! I am not afraid of being spoiled (besides your theory will likely turn out to be incorrect) so please share your thoughts on what the three treasons will be and why. I am interested. I must have missed your 'three heads' post unfortunately. Who are they in your view? Alright - let's interpret the line about the three treasons: There is the word 'know'. The HotU prophecy does not state Dany will 'commit' treason. Only that she will know three treasons. Three spedific treasons. It does not say she will know treason in general (as in "she will commit treason, thus 'know' it" - as you interpret). Contrary to what you say the wording does not indict her at all. Rather the wording literally means that three specific treasons will come to her knowledge. Now as to which treasons are meant I think we first have to realize that the HotU prophecy is not (only) about Dany. Rather it contains major plot points for the story as a whole (including other important characters). So the "treasons" mentioned can have happened in other storylines and then at some point need to come to Dany's knowledge. I can't be sure which of the treasons in our story are the ones meant by the prophecy of course. But we can take it as a given that they must be the most important treasons that happen in the whole story. Not just any old treasons. THE treasons. (Just like the Smoking Tower can't just be any old tower, but I digress.) Here are my treason candidates: Jon commits treason when he tries to involve the Night's Watch into the politics of the realm by attacking the Boltons. This is treason against the realm. The Night's Watch is forbidden from doing such a thing. Jon was stopped at the last moment but only after he had already held his speech, trying to win people for his planned attack. He did it for love, as he thought Arya was in danger and Arya is the sibling he is closest to. It is a major turning point of the story and happens to one of the central characters. So it belongs in the HotU. Theon Greyjoy commited treason against the Starks. Yes, he did it because he is a Greyjoy and wanted to advance himself by helping his family (his kin = his blood) - but he was working for Robb Stark and was on a (diplomatic) mission for the King Robb when he defected and attacked the North. A treason right there. This is another of the major betrayals in the story, pivotal to the story, happening to a major character. It belongs in the central prophecy also. A betrayal for blood (blood = kin). The treason for gold is something I am especially unsure of. It needs to be something as pivotal to the story as the other two. There are lots of betrayals all around but none feel really like cornerstones of the story to me. Ontop of that a mere betrayal isn't enough as the wording demands a "treason". A treason is a betrayal of one's country or King (or Queen). So a central character needs to commit treason against their country or King. Jamie killing Cersei? Jon killing Dany (or vice versa)? Either would qualify as 'for gold'. (Gold meaning the crown).
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