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Amris

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  1. Look: you have a right to like your theory obviously. But some theories are more likely than others Your idea is that Euron speaking of metaphorical flying from some small non-descript tower (not even any tower of any importance mentioned anywhere else in the story) with no smoke, no stone beast and no shadow fire still makes it clear to you that Euron is meant by: 'stone beast' 'taking wing' from a 'smoking tower' breathing 'shadow fire' That is - ah - quite a stretch. The only word from the prophecy that is fulfilled in your idea is 'tower'. (Note that flying isn't mentioned in the HotU. The words are 'taking wing'.) You don't want to hear Bran because it doesn't fit your theory. However contrary to your Euron idea in Bran's case every word of the prophecy is fulfilled. Literally. And it means an actual (and very important) tower (due to Bran's fall there and the Crypts of Winterfell under it) at a main location of the story that is mentioned repeatedly in the story, starting with Bran's very first chapter in book 1.
  2. HotU stanza 2 line 1: Stannis - that's kind of a no brainer. It jumps out of the text at you. So I agree. HotU stanza 2 line 2: Aegon/Young Griff - highly likely since the cloth dragon fits well with the theory of Aegon not being who he thinks he is HotU stanza 2 line 3: This one is obviously Bran. As far as I know there is no text ev at all for the stone beast being Euron. It's just someone's fantasy idea unsupported by the text. Whereas very heavy text ev is all over the place for the stone beast symbolizing Bran: The (literal!) stone beast even fell (took wing) at the very exact place that Bran fell in his first chapter. And that very spot is at a smoking tower too. Which in itself is positioned in a central location for the whole story. And much later in DwD when Theon discovers the fallen stone beast again GRRM even writes explicitly: "This is were they found Bran."
  3. I like your speculation in the OP. However I am with Targaryenkingslanding: We already have Daenerys waking dragons from stone eggs in book 1. That fulfills the prophecy word for word and in a straightforward way. I don't really see that a more complicated and highly speculative other explanation is needed.
  4. That's the 'will to do good' part that I cited. It is a smokescreen that GRRM put up so expertly that that's all you apparently see :P. However we aren't maybe as far apart as it seems: I'd love it if Dany really were 'the' heroine (only I'm afraid she isn't). And yes - she does have the Mhysa - side and tries to do good occasionally. That's the 'nuanced' thing that I also cited. It is just that the dragon - side has been there always too and her last chapter makes it clear the dragon side has won. I will add another thing that also means we aren't as far apart as it may seem: I think that the dragon - side is not to be equated with evil. Danys story is not as simle as that. The dragon side is more brutal efficiency than evil per se. Brutal efficiency can have its place here and there. Sometimes it even prevents something even more bad from happening (think of Hiroshima which prevented huge scale slaugthers in battles that would have been necessary for an invasion). However it is highly situational. On other occasions brutal efficiency can be totally out of place too! If the Dany story keeps going the way it has been going for the existing 5 books then she will keep walking a tightrope between Mhysa and Dragon. That's cool and admirable. Sometimes she'll get it wrong though. However I am afraid (and pretty sure) that'd lately she has changed the balance and is now firmly off the middle course and into Dragon territory. That's because of her last chapter. Up to that point Dance with Dragons set her up in leaning too far towards Mhysa territory and fairly going overboard with it in her concessions towards the slavers. That failed. And that set the story up for her to turn to her other side: the Dragon way. And that'll set up the story for her dealing with the free cities and her invasion of Westeros. And yes. That is Sauron stuff, deny it all you want. That doesn't mean she isn't a cool character or anything. Or that she doesn't really have some justifications on her side. It still is an invasion complete with barbarians and weapons of mass destruction and there will be wholesale slaughter. No way around that in wars like this. If I get my wish then Dany's invasion will produce something positive too insofar as she can help defeat the Others. That'll be some redemption for her. Hopefully.
  5. ? Daenerys is the hero in her own storyline of course. Just like every character in the books is. The hero of the whole series though? I don't know if there even is such a character but if there is it is not Daenerys. Look objectively at what she does and is planning to do: 1. she is trying to recruit an army of rapist savages in order to start a giant war 2. she has 3 firebreathing monsters that can lay waste to entire cities (and likely will) 3. she wants to invade and conquer a whole continent Replace '3 firebreathing monsters' with '9 Nazgul' and you have Sauron. Admittedly, GRRM has made his antagonist more nuanced, given her understandable motivations and even a will to do good, not to mention making her female and good looking. Nevertheless - the core nature of the character remains the same (see 1-3 above). I like Dany and still hold out some hope that she'll end up doing some good with her invasion in the end. But don't hold your breath.
  6. I think Jaime's fate will be to kill Cersei (which I'm fine with) and then die himself (which I won't like). I wish Jaime would end up on the throne in the end. The loss of his hand has made Jaime grow into an adult and decent person and his negotiations in the Riverlands have shown that he has the abilities to create and keep the peace. He also is smart and confident which is helpful. But his ordeals have humbled him enough to lose his former overconfidence. A plus too. Ontop of that he is good-looking. I like that. Unfortunately my impression is that for our author good looks seem to rule someone out as coming out as winner in the end. Poor Jaime. It is also possible that Jaime is of half Targ ancestry and I'd love the irony of that family on the throne again with no one realizing it. I mean like - all those wars. For nothing. Back to square one.
  7. The stone beast taking wing from the smoking tower is a reference to Bran. Short version: 1) Importance of the location The HotU is the central piece of prophetic riddle in the whole series. Ergo the 'smoking tower has to be a location that is very important to the story, not some random tower we have hardly ever heard off. The smoking tower is the Broken Tower in Winterfell. Winterfell is one of the two central locations of the story (the other being KL). Thus is very important to the story. It also is end-game material. And the Crypts of Winterfell and their secrets are under the tower. 2) Smoke The smoke happens during the Burning of Winterfell. It gets mentioned lots of times. (Contrary to for example the burning of the Tower of the Hand in KL by Cersei where GRRM never mentions smoke at all. Strange, eh?) 3) Stone beast From Bran's first chapter we learn that stone gargoyles adorn the first keep (next to the broken tower). In fact he climbs right along the gargoyles to reach the broken tower before he falls. 4) Takes wing Gargoyles usually are depicted with wings. During the burning of winterfell chapter we learn that a whole side of the old keep (including its gargoyles) falls down ('takes wing'). Bran & Co then find gargoyles strewn about at the foot of the broken tower. And - to top it off - at the very same spot that Bran had fallen (taken wing) when pushed down by Jaime. GRRM also finds it necessary to remind us of this again in DwD, the Ghost of Winterfell chapter when Theon and Lady Dustin find the gargoyle staring up out of the snow, next to the entrance to the Crypts and we excplicitly get told again 'this is where they found Bran'. Bran also gets dreams of flying. 5) Shadow fire The shadow fire is all over the place when the gargoyle falls down. That's because the whole of Winterfell is aflame (having been set on fire by Ramsay) and it is night! (See Summer's watching the fire from outside Winterfell at night). Thus the fire casts lots of shadows. This is additionally and explicitly made clear in the metaphorical winged firebreathing snake that Summer sees over Winterfell when the wall of the first keep crashes down (and the gargoyle 'takes wing'.) Edit: spelling
  8. Over the last 10 years I couldn't help to now and again think about why our author finds it harder and harder to write the books in the series. We all know that the gaps between books are getting longer. Not somewhat longer. Not even linearly longer. Exponentially longer: 2-3 years for the first 3 books. 5 years for book 4. 6 years for book 5. 10 years and counting for the next installment. We also know that GRRM would like to have the next book finished long since. And we can bet that he's been working hard on it. So the issue is not lack of trying or lack of will on his part. We all know the above and I admit it has been discussed many times. By putting it up there I just wanted to set the stage for what I am about to suggest: I know it is not really practical since books 3-5 have long been out there and printed. Nevertheless: the issue which makes it ever harder to continue the story is that book 3 went off the rails. Fixing the story would need fixing book 3 first. I am very sure writing the other books would be a lot easier then. And no - I do not hate book 3. Storm of Swords has great parts. Some of the best fantasy I have ever read. It also has serious issues though. That is the problem. Book 3 is where the number of secondary plots and secondary and tertiary characters got out of hand. Book 3 is where the foundation that would have been needed to implement the 5 year gap wasn't set. The issues with books 4 and 5 have their roots there. And I can pretty safely guess that the struggle with book 6 has its roots there too. 3 should be fixed to have 4-7 go more smoothly. Not practical I know, sorry. But still.
  9. The question in the OP will likely not arise in the series. That's because a Dany baby would not fit in the story: If the story aims at putting Bran on the throne and killing off Daenerys then a baby would just be in the way. So no baby, fertile or no. Dragon or no.
  10. And that is one of the interesting things of the Daenerys arc to me: that it tells us something about us. Us readers. How far are we willing to accompany Dany? Which excuses are we willing to accept? Is there a point when we say - no, I can't go there with you? Or will we accept everything she does? Sometimes I wonder if we are part of a new Milgram Experiment. (That was the guy who famously tested how far people are willing to go to torture others if only an authority figure tells them to.) It is of course possible that Dany will stay away from giant atrocities and actually offer a viable alternative to the current management in KL. Even in that case the question remains: where do I personally draw the line? What can be accepted for the 'higher cause' even if I dislike it? And that I am willing to accept it: what does that say about me?
  11. I didn't say he changed his mind. What I mean is that he may say things that he thinks are true but that aren't necessarily when viewed from another perspective. For example my impression is that he thinks he has spotted certain weaknesses in Tolkien's LotR. Since he publicly talks about this it is more or less a necessity that he tells himself (and others) that he will avoid these weaknesses. But thinking this and doing it are two different things. Sauron is pretty one-dimensional, true. And one might see that as a weakness in the LotR. (I don't - I think Sauron makes sense in the context of the book - but others don't see it this way.) Now in GRRM's series we see a lot of villains that have different sides and motivations and are no Sauron at all. Testament to GRRM trying to avoid the one-dimension. However we also see a Euron and a Victarion. That's what I mean with thinking and doing being two different things. It's not easy to entirely avoid the one-dimensionalness. Now back to Dany who after all is the topic of this thread: I don't think Dany is a a one-dimensional character at all. And that's even though yes, I do think that she is partly modeled on the Dark Overlord trope. But that trope has been brillantly turned on its head. If people in this thread think that I want to diminish Dany or critizice George about how he set up Dany then they are mistaken. I don't like everything about the books but I do like what GRRM did to create Dany. I find it very interesting how on the one hand she reflects Sauron but on the other hand makes us understand her motivations and even feel for her. And the most interesting thing is what book Dany does to us - us readers. How do we see her and her acts (some of which are very gory if you think of it). And why do we see what we see? I at least am not so sure about myself and whether my opinion of her and her actions is really warranted. That's pretty cool I think.
  12. What people say and what they do are two different things. Martin is no exception.
  13. You do realize that in AsoIaF the visions that are associated with 'religion' (weirwood net for instance) are actually magical and not religious at all? People ascribe them to 'religion' but they aren't. That's what he shows us. It's not religion at all - only the believers persuade themselves it was.
  14. Very good post. I would like to add that I don't think GRRM is mentally able to have a beautiful warrior queen blessed with 3 dragons succeed in the end. I think being beautiful AND successful is just too much for him. Not to mention 3 dragons ontop of it. Many readers are the same. They somehow feel threatened by the thought of a successful person being also good looking. That's not allowed. Taboo. Notice for instance how for GRRM Tyrion's being a small person wasn't enough handicap to allow him into his world. He couldn't be small and good looking (like Peter Dinklage). No, in the books he had to me small AND ugly. That's not enough either: he also had to be disfigured. And not just any old disfigurement: no, he had to lose is nose and get an awful scar right through is face. As if he wasn't handicapped enough from the start. And then Bran. If we believe the rumor that Bran will be king in the end I can't fail to notice that GRRM had to cripple him first. I don't think a non-crippled or non-ugly person would be allowed to win in GRRM's story. Brienne is the same. What a cool character she could be basically. The operative word being could. But again GRRM had do overdo it with the amount of handicaps. Brienne is a woman who has the already huge problem that in a patriarchal world her interest lies in a 'manly' profession, being a fighter, wanting to be a knight. What a giant amount of story lies in this difficulty alone! But is this handicap enough? Not for GRRM. Ontop of her already huge problem of not fitting into the mysogynitic society she lives in she also has to be ugly and a brute. And that's still not enough. Like Tyrion she has to be disfigured on her way. And only after all that be finally allowed some success in the end (I hope, for so far GRRM heaped failure upon failure for her). Now we have good-looking fighters too. The sand-snakes. But do we really believe they will come out ontop in the end? I don't. They look good ergo they'll fail. I think it's as easy as that.
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