A spoon of knife and fork Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 . or more likely Aegon wasn't anywhere near GRRM's mind when he wrote A Game of Thrones.This is the real answer - Aegon is a retcon, groundwork wasn't really laid until D&E, and the house of the undying mummers dragon thing could be interpreted to not involve Illyrio until 'dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biter the Gallant Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 This is the real answer - Aegon is a retcon, groundwork wasn't really laid until D&E, and the house of the undying mummers dragon thing could be interpreted to not involve Illyrio until 'dance. Do we need more groundwork than a murdered royal infant, whose head was destroyed? That is a perfect situation for an impostor to appear later in a political crisis. I am quite sure GRRM was planning to use a fake Targaryen prince as a literary tool from the very beginning (especially as this story has many medieval historical paralels, such as those of Lambert Simnel, Giannino Baglioni or Grigory Otrepyev - GRRM loves these type of historical nods, and is a great fan of the history of the Wars of the Roses, so likely always wanted to use the Simnel-motive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Do we need more groundwork than a murdered royal infant, whose head was destroyed? That is a perfect situation for an impostor to appear later in a political crisis. I am quite sure GRRM was planning to use a fake Targaryen prince as a literary tool from the very beginning (especially as this story has many medieval historical paralels, such as those of Lambert Simnel, Gianni Baglioni or Grigory Otrepyev - GRRM loves these type of historical nods, and is a great fan of the history of the Wars of the Roses, so likely always wanted to use the Simnel-motive.)Right, but as this thread indicates he clearly hadn't thought through in terms of Illyrio and Varys involvement, which is the part that makes little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 This is the real answer - Aegon is a retcon, groundwork wasn't really laid until D&E, and the house of the undying mummers dragon thing could be interpreted to not involve Illyrio until 'dance. I don't think so. George wrote most of ACoK before publishing AGoT. Even before publishing Storm, he was clearly confirming that Rhaenys dead but not giving definite statements about Aegon in interviews. That is why people were theorizing since very early books that Aegon was not dead and return soon. They all assumed that Aegon was a person in the story posing as someone else. They had some candidates like Aurane Waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Sure, he left the door open for a hidden heir, but Aegon being Illyrio and Varys real plan isn't hinted at all until "mummers dragon" and it certainly wasn't definitive until dance. That's what I meant by retcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biter the Gallant Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Right, but as this thread indicates he clearly hadn't thought through in terms of Illyrio and Varys involvement, which is the part that makes little sense. I am also sure that GRRM did not have all the details worked out about it back then, but while I was reading AGoT I always had been thinking that it is very strange that Illyrio seemed to be not aware of the fact that the Dothraki hate the sea and will not want to cross it (between normal circumstances). The plan of Varys and Illyrio was quite illogical already back in AGoT (Eddard Stark was right: the Targ siblings and the Dothraki horde posed no real threat to Bobby B's regime at all)... except if they had some kind of a different plan in mind. Their conversation in the first book is written in a very careful mode, they do not speak explicitely about their objectives. Martin wanted to have a "free hand" as a writer about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biter the Gallant Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Concerning dragon eggs: I think they are overrated. They are valuable, but just like some kind of big gems, or ancient artefacts. It is not that easy to trade them, you can not simply go to a market and try to sell them. If you can not find e. g. a very rich wizard or a very rich historian with Valyrian ancestry or an extravagant, snob millionaire, or a Targaryen king etc. then the chances of selling dragon eggs are likely close to zero. (Yes, Viserys wanted to steal and sell them... in the middle of Vaes Dothrak, but we all know what a realistic guy he was. And if we believe what Jorah said to Dany, an egg actually equals about only the prize of a good sea ship - so they are valuable, but not _that_ much valuable as Viserys thought they were.)And if you do not want to sell them, you can not really do too many things with them. You can pay with them for sex with a nobleman's daughters, make them the award of a tourney... but normally? Imho they are used simply as prestige objects, or as prestigious diplomatic gifts. And that is the way Illyrio used them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagon Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 To die, Varys wanted the dothraki threat to hit Westeros so Aegon can follow them and wipe them out. This is how I see it. Create a beatable enemy for fAegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafkeeper Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 To die Doesn't he say as much to Tyrion in ADWD? I don't nesscessarily think he expected Viserys to fail and to follow up with Aegon so much as he was hunting with more than one arrow. If Viserys failed he had Aegon. If he suceeded Aegon could be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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