The Will to Change: Rereading Sandor

[DogLover]

Fantastic analysis, Milady, as well as an educational one! I especially loved the lesson on the descriptive and prescriptive aspects of chivalry. Just a few quick comments for now:

Though he did attempt to downplay his rescue of her by contemptuously calling the rioters “rats,” there are a couple of details that demonstrate that it wasn’t really as easy and our Hound is posturing. First of those is his own “they had me thirty to one” comment, which is quite startling because it reveals the extent of the riot, and a raging mob of that magnitude is no small matter regardless of how well-armed a man is. In our times, Riot Police that were well-protected and well-armed, with tear gas and rubber bullets and such, have been known to be brought down wounded and policemen have died in particularly vicious rioting by unarmed protesters that at best had rudimentary tools and Molotov cocktails.

Considering what the mob did to Santagar and Preston Greenfield, trained and armed warriors who were beaten to bloody pulps, and the High Septon who was ripped to pieces, this resonates pure unadulterated hatred and danger from a mob with nothing to lose. Sandor was certainly fighting off more than just "rats." Absolutely the situation had to have been stressful, both physically and emotionally. Wonderful job conveying this!

I've read many comments by posters who have claimed that Sandor committed treason by abandoning his post as sworn shield to the king to save Sansa (of which I just may be guilty myself), so thanks for shedding light on this. As you point out, Sandor didn't commit treason as he never abandoned the king--he followed orders and lived up to the ideals of a true knight by risking his own life to save those of others, not exclusive to Sansa.

Sandor's contempt toward Tyrion stands out to me in this section simply because he gets away with it, unlike Meryn and Boros. Sandor makes very clear he is not obeying Tyrion's orders to go back into the mob, and fire, to see to the water wagons.

"I'll go," he said, "though not by your command. I need to find that horse."

Yet, Boros and Meryn, who also refuse Tyrion's orders earn Cersie's sharp rebuke:

Tyrion turned to the three remaining knights of the Kingsguard. "Each of you will ride escort to a herald. Command the people to return to their homes. Any man found on the streets after the last peal of the even fall bell will be killed."

"Our place is with the king," Ser Meryn said, complacent.

Cersie reared up like a viper. "Your place is where my brother says it is," she spat. "The Hand speaks with the king's own voice, and disobedience is treason."

Even though Sandor does do what Tyrion commands, Sandor makes it clear he's going on his own volition for his own personal reasons, not because Tyrion instructs him to, earning him no rebuke from Cersie, which implies he holds a much more elevated place amongst the Lannisters than any other member of the Kingsguard, and for understandable reasons, including that Boros and Trant are behaving exceptionally cowardly after what Sandor just did--fight off a mob--and willingly goes right back into the mob after showing a glimpse of fear only noticed by Tyrion.

[Elba the Intoner]

AWW so many people here are coming down hard on poor Dontos. :-( I did the essay on Dontos for the male influences project and I have to say I have a bit of a soft spot for the guy. While I agree that he was not the knight that Sansa prayed for in the Godswood, I believe he was a friend to her and she also did ask for a friend there, because there are indications he tried to take his role as Florian seriously for Sansa, but that's getting beyond the scope of this thread.

What is within the scope is how this relates to Sandor. It's come up quite a bit about how Sandor took Selmy's place on the Kingsguard and symbolically Sansa used Selmy's discarded white cloak when she pleaded for Ned's life, just as later she will take Sandor's discarded cloak and wrap it around her. Selmy also has regrets about his service to Aerys and saving his life. The connection that I am thinking of here is that it was after Selmy saved Aerys from the defiance of Duskendale that he also actually saved Dontos' life. Arys had everyone else in the family killed and Selmy asked for mercy for Dontos who was just a small boy at the time so could not have been involved in the defiance. Had Dontos not been saved then, he would not have been around later for Sansa to save and for LF to use and abuse in his plan to kidnap get Sansa out of King's Landing.

There are a couple of interesting connections I noted here. First is that Sansa herself behaved similarly to Selmy in pleading for Dontos' life at Joff's name day tourney. Second is that Dontos shows up on two occasions as a decoy knight to protect Sansa while the true knight is not as obvious. Not only does Dontos show up as the answer to Sansa's prayer in the Godswood before she runs into her true Lady replacement and protector on the stairs, but Dontos steps in to act at the exact moment that Joff commands his Dog to hit Sansa.

ETA there is also the parallel that Milady commented on earlier that Dontos and Sansa have their own serpentine steps moment but in that case Sansa is the one to help Dontos rather than the other way around, again highlighting the decoy knight aspect of his character. And since Selmy was the one to save Dontos initially, it's another example of how Sansa was aided by an act of Selmy's though in the end that was not ultimately true help (same as despite Sansa pleas for mercy on Selmy's cloak, in the end Ned is still killed).

Excellent write up Milady! It was enlightening to learn that the songs of chilvary were meant to act as a code of conduct that was taken very seriously by the men who wanted to be knights.

[Lyanna Stark]

Elba, really like your tracing of the links between Selmy, Dontos and Sandor. I do agree with you that Dontos often gets a rough deal and for what it is worth, I also think he really wanted to help Sansa, given the chance. His life was also a really tragic one, since his family got murdered by mad king Aerys and he was the only one left.

In any case, there is a bit of a "pay it forward" theme here. Even if the saying goes "no good deed must go unpunished" I actually think there is a bit of the opposite going on here. Selmy saved Dontos, only for him to eventually give Sansa an opportunity to be helped by him. When Selmy left the Kingsguard, Sandor took his place, and Sansa's interactions with him in turn worked as a catalyst for him to recalibrate his moral compass and assist her as best he could given the circumstances.

Sandor's contempt toward Tyrion stands out to me in this section simply because he gets away with it, unlike Meryn and Boros. Sandor makes very clear he is not obeying Tyrion's orders to go back into the mob, and fire, to see to the water wagons.

I agree, and it also makes it very clear that compared to Meryn and Boros, Sandor is much braver. He has legitimate reasons to be extremely frightened of fires, yet he goes out again with far less complaints than Trant and Blount.

[Milady of York]

Milady: "But at the end of the day, someone was surely overjoyed at seeing him come to extricate him from the riots: Stranger." Interesting turn of phrase when we consider that Sandor rode out, not only to save his beloved horse (Yes, he loves Stranger.), but also to ensure the wildfire does not ignite, thereby 'removing the Stranger' from the crowds (saving countless more lives.)

Very keen observation, Avlonnic, I like it!

He really adores his horse, there's no other explanation as fitting as this. When have we seen the Hound care about possessions so much that he'd offhandedly face his nightmare, fire, for it? Monetary value of the warhorse in itself isn't a satisfactory motivation in view of this--destriers and coursers are expensive, but they're not dragon eggs--and even less so because Sandor isn't poor and the Lannisters aren't so niggardly that he'd not be able to buy himself another horse easily.

And the horse in turn does reciprocate this love enthusiastically if we go by Arya's remark that he becomes "gentle as an old gelding" with the Hound, but if your name isn't Sandor Clegane, you best tread with caution or say farewell to a limb. It's interesting that Stranger gets the same description as Sandor, "gentle," and reserves that behaviour for only one person whereas with the rest he's difficult and testy, even dangerous if you piss him off. The monk spoke the truth, the courser truly has his master's nature.

It's also revealing that Sandor has given his horse a name, which again hints at how much he loves it and how big a stickler for his own spin on knightly ways he really is. Another jaded Mr. There Are No True Knights, Jaime, says this in AFFC:

It had been long years since Jaime had named any of his horses; he had seen too many die in battle, and that was harder when you named them. But when the Piper boy started calling them Honor and Glory, he laughed and let the names stand. Glory wore trappings of Lannister crimson; Honor was barded in Kingsguard white.

The name itself is just an example of his sense of humour, but that he gave him one indicates he's not afraid of loving an animal he could very well lose anytime, like Jaime, who ceased to name his horses to spare himself the pain of seeing them die. The Hound is going for the contrary, for the "better love and lose" approach with his warhorse, and it tells how much it means to him.

But there's also another practical side to this affection that relates to knighthood. I read a lot on the topic for the analysis and I recall that in "A Knight and His Horse" by Ewart Oakeshott, a leading expert in knightly warfare, he said that a knight's greatest asset was his warhorse: without a well-trained, trusty and strong charger, he was weak and vulnerable and little less than at the same level than the common foot soldiery they were supposed to be above. If a khal who cannot ride is no khal, a knight who has no warhorse is no knight, true or false. Plain as that. And again we have an in-world echo of this reality from the Elder Brother, as well as from Duncan.

[Milady of York]

Thank you, DogLover and Elba! Researching the period views on knightly and chivalric stuff was the most fun and enlightening part, and I'm glad you loved that. I also appreciated Elba's parallels on the Dontos-Sansa-Sandor-Selmy quartet a lot.

Considering what the mob did to Santagar and Preston Greenfield, trained and armed warriors who were beaten to bloody pulps, and the High Septon who was ripped to pieces, this resonates pure unadulterated hatred and danger from a mob with nothing to lose. Sandor was certainly fighting off more than just "rats." Absolutely the situation had to have been stressful, both physically and emotionally. Wonderful job conveying this!

And there's also the report by Ser Jacelyn to the Imp on their dead and wounded:

Nine gold cloaks had been slain, two score wounded. No one had troubled to count how many of the mob had died.

Those were soldiers, in chainmail armour and well-armed with spears and perhaps had swords too, and fighting not individually but as a cohesive military detachment. And even so, look at how many of them died and were wounded at the hands of the unarmed mob. Comparatively, Sandor was just one man and not well-protected. He didn't even have his shield there, from what's found in the text. No one went to try and help him when he was surrounded by the mob, either, and whilst he's capable of defending himself, he's not an one-man army and he was definitely at risk, both Moore and Tyrion give him up for dead as soon as he's engulfed by the rioters, which gives some idea of how ugly it was, too.

Even though Sandor does do what Tyrion commands, Sandor makes it clear he's going on his own volition for his own personal reasons, not because Tyrion instructs him to, earning him no rebuke from Cersie, which implies he holds a much more elevated place amongst the Lannisters than any other member of the Kingsguard, and for understandable reasons, including that Boros and Trant are behaving exceptionally cowardly after what Sandor just did--fight off a mob--and willingly goes right back into the mob after showing a glimpse of fear only noticed by Tyrion.

Yes, and besides their display of cowardice, the Meryn-Boros duo had already disobeyed twice: first when Tyrion asked them to go search for Sansa, and then when he sent them for the water wagons. and that reincident defiance was just too much to tolerate. As Kingsguard, they are bound by vows to go where the king says, or where the Hand or Regent say when the king is a minor, and the Hand hadn't given them any order that was demeaning or that contradicted their vows either, because a king can extend the protection of the Kingsguard to whoever in his family he wishes, and Sansa was his betrothed, entitled to their protection when and where he ordered. And the king could also order the Kingsguard to do things that weren't necessarily protection work or army-commanding work but that benefited the crown or the people, like when Dayne was sent after the Brotherhood even thought it's not Kingsguard work to deal with outlaws exactly as far as we know. Sandor gets away with it also because, despite his mouthiness, he's not disobedient nor complacent in his comfy and well-paying job standing beside the king.

[brashcandy]

Joffrey mentions Nymeria's attack but blames it on Lady. The Lannister defeat and the tales of wolves and wargs must have triggered his own memory of defeat at the hands of a Stark wolf. There is a direct Sandor/Lady comparison here as Joffrey is asking his dog to attack Sansa as he claims Sansa's wolf attacked him.

Yes, that's true. Cersei tells Sansa later on in Clash:

“Joffrey will show you no such devotion, I fear. You could thank your sister for that, if she weren’t dead. He’s never been able to forget that day on the Trident when you saw her shame him, so he shames you in turn. You’re stronger than you seem, though. I expect you’ll survive a bit of humiliation. I did. You may never love the king, but you’ll love his children.”

I like your point on the Sandor/Lady comparison. As the replacement for Sansa's wolf, Sandor is much more aligned to Sansa's side of the conflict in this scene and you can just imagine the amount of restraint it took on his part not to intervene more forcefully. The incident seems very much like another one of those clear markers in Sandor's breaking away from the Lannisters.

In keeping track of the bloody cloak motif in Sandor's arc, Bronn says the following right before the Hound tosses his cloak to Sansa:

“Careful with those,” warned the dwarf’s sellsword. “You don’t want to get blood all over those pretty white cloaks.”

And later at the riot we read:

Clegane lifted her to the ground. His white cloak was torn and stained, and blood seeped through a jagged tear in his left sleeve.

In both instances Sandor's cloak being bloodied highlights him as behaving in a much more honorable and courageous manner than his fellow Kingsguard, with Sansa as the main subject around which this behaviour revolves. Unlike its first appearance connected to the death of an innocent, it's now being put into the service of helping to protect one.

[Odon]

There's a comment on Rereading Tyrion on this, where it's noted how Sandor must feel having to stand there helpless as Sansa is beaten, only to see the Imp come in like a white knight from the stories, rescue Sansa and carry her off to her bedchamber! Certainly it would fuel some of the hatred he expresses re Tyrion's marriage in later chapters, and his drunken desire to be a Lord with all the attendant privileges. Sometimes it's not enough to be a dog. :(

[DogLover]

I like that you framed Joffrey's abuse of Sansa within the construct of domestic violence because this also helps us to further appreciate just how important a role the Hound played in helping to mitigate her suffering during this time. He has no power to effect any change to her status as prisoner of war/hostage as someone like Tyrion Lannister, Hand of the King, does, for instance. Instead, he can offer her advice, give her clues via his wary looks, and in the end provide a cloak to help protect her dignity and offer her comfort. The chapter opens with Sandor in Sansa's bedroom, highlighting the "domestic" space of his influence and continuing the pattern of their meaningful interactions taking place in intimate settings. It also highlights that in this drama where Sansa is the unfortunate victim, the Hound is not cast as some mere bodyguard; he's much more involved on a personal level: implicating himself time and again to seeing that Sansa does not come to harm. Giving her his cloak is part of this: an act that supersedes comparison to chivalric codes of a knight's obligation to a lady, and enters into the field of marital relations, if we too consider how Martin uses cloak symbolism in the series. In her first chapter of Clash when Joffrey showed more of his terrible tendencies at the Name-day tourney, Sansa thought that she wouldn't mind marrying his younger brother instead. While the thought of marriage to Sandor Clegane would not have crossed her mind consciously at this point, this scene does link to that first one at the tourney of gnats where Sandor demonstrated the qualities of being a much better domestic partner. While the man himself is not directly referenced, Martin allows Sansa's appreciation of his worth to be expressed when she receives the cloak:

“Someone give the girl something to cover herself with,” the Imp said. Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine.

Beautifully stated, brashcandy. The chapter opening with Sandor in Sansa's bedroom as she's dressing and fixing her hair initially seemed odd to me. Despite the sense of impending of doom readers feel for Sansa, the scene is very intimate and clearly intentional by GRRM (it would be difficult to image Sansa sharing such intimate space with Boros Blount or Meryn Trant if they were ordered to bring Sansa to the throne room). This does give the readers a sense of domestic space, and while it might initially seem odd, there's nothing inappropriate or sexual about it, even though Sansa is in a state of undress, buttoning up her gown, and grooming herself. The following events, in contrast to the Serpentine stairs wherein Sandor does take notice of Sansa’s figure, is the exact opposite of sexual in regards to the interaction between Sansa and Sandor throughout the entire chapter. Sandor is not standing around hoping to ogle Sansa, as Sandor’s warning that she hurry conveys concern. It’s Joffrey who demands that Sansa be stripped so he can ogle her while she’s beaten, but for the Hound, clearly, this offers no cheap entertainment. And, as the chapter opens with Sandor waiting for Sansa to dress, it’s he who covers her after she’s stripped right in front of him: again, the pattern of her dressing, then almost immediately stripped, and Sandor offering her his cloak is very intentional. As has been discussed in detail, the cloak, which Sansa accepts with relief, symbolizes marriage. Not only does this foreshadow a future union, but also reveals that Sandor is an acceptable partner for Sansa (just as the co-parenting scene with Tommen demonstrated that Sandor could actually be a positive father-figure). There’s been many posters who have argued that a marital relationship between Sandor and Sansa would be quickly marred by domestic violence, but this entire chapter states the contrary.

Like his kingly charge, Sandor lived in the conflictive Baratheon-Lannister household, and he must’ve witnessed Robert hitting his wife, or at least seen the aftermath in Cersei’s face or body. It’d be impossible to hide this from a sworn shield on duty every day; the daily interaction would’ve made it hard for her to fool Sandor with powder and long sleeves, plus the couple weren’t exactly discreet about not fighting with onlookers present. If the Hound was a witness in these episodes of marital violence, that sheds more light on why he is able to give Sansa good advice on appeasing Joffrey by giving him “what he wants” and complying to save herself some beatings. It’s true that it stems from knowing Joffrey like the palm of his hand, but not entirely so. He’d have seen how Cersei got struck across the face for mouthing off to Robert at sensitive moments, which isn’t blaming her for the violence he unleashed on her, but the fact that Cersei never makes an effort to not escalate a dispute by viciously backtalking to Robert does serve to illustrate Sandor’s point that unnecessary verbal provocation of someone with violent tendencies is as wise as taunting a viper. This also could apply to his advice for her “to smile and smell sweet and be his lady love.” He’d know what exactly made Joffrey say he “can’t abide the wailing of women” and speak with contempt of his mother’s weeping at Jaime’s capture—and one has to wonder if he’s seen her crying in private for other reasons—which in turn he advises Sansa to avoid as it presses the king’s buttons.

I have never before really considered the dynamics between Cersei, Robert, Sandor, and Jaime. Great point that Sandor learns from Cersie, who would never allow anyone to silence her, the lesson he passes on to Sansa. It also highlights the level of dysfunction Sandor has been subjected to throughout his entire life, much of it violent: from his own family to the Baratheon/Lannisters. It’s no wonder he shields himself with a thick wall of cynicism and posturing and finds Sansa’s idealism so frustrating. He’s lived in a world where no one seems to care for anyone: his brother and father didn’t care for him and actually hurt him, physically and emotionally; Robert and Cersie hate each other and Robert neglects his “children” (while Cersie may love her children, her parenting methods are toxic); Cersei and Tyrion hate each other; Tywin is emotionally abusive to his children; and the only real love, that between Cersei and Jaime, is taboo. The fact that Sandor is thus far the one person in King’s Landing we’ve seen uphold the values of a true knight despite the soul-crushing environment he’s been subjected to his entire life, speaks highly of his character. Just as Sandor demonstrates he's Sansa's true Florian, the compassion and empathy that Sansa showed him just after he attempted to teach her a hard lesson in life, compassion and empathy that’s clearly been lacking in his life, positions her as his Jonquil.

With no POV from him, hard to say with one hundred percent surety. Besides, we'd not know directly from him in another POV as he interacted mainly with Sansa at King's Landing, and she's from the House rival to his masters', he obviously wasn't going to spill the beans on his liege lady to her. Also, there's the detail that he's a sworn shield, which given that it's a position similar to that of a royal bodyguard, would surely require of secrecy and to make some promise or oath to keep the lord/lady's secrets, more so if they happen to be royalty.

In assessing what Sandor may or may not know about the dirty laundry of the Lannister family, I often use Tyrion as my starting point to draw some inferences. The Imp knows a damning amount of stuff on his family, and it's to be expected, as he's one of them. But Sandor is like a pseudo-family member too, like you said, and he has lived at court for half his life, so he knows a damning deal as well. Both men have advantages on the information-gathering front that the other doesn't that can be applied to information on the twins. Substract from the equation what Tyrion learns from council meetings, official papers and private talks with his relatives (Impish advantage) and add to the equation what Sandor would learn from standing by at the door and during bedchamber visits and talks (Houndish advantage), and you have a good guess at what type of information Sandor has on Cersei and Jaime. If Tyrion was able to deduce the incest, it makes sense that so would Sandor too, who sees the twins daily and has done so for longer than Tyrion.

I also always assumed Sandor's remark to Arya that Robb would be a fool to not accept him into his service alluded to more than just Sandor's skill as a warrior: Sandor was also implying he had valuable Lannister secrets to offer.

AWW so many people here are coming down hard on poor Dontos. :-( I did the essay on Dontos for the male influences project and I have to say I have a bit of a soft spot for the guy. While I agree that he was not the knight that Sansa prayed for in the Godswood, I believe he was a friend to her and she also did ask for a friend there, because there are indications he tried to take his role as Florian seriously for Sansa, but that's getting beyond the scope of this thread.

Great post, Elba, and I totally agree with you! I do think Dontos convinced himself that he was truly helping Sansa. If Petyr told Dontos to refer to himself as Florian, Dontos probably deluded himself into thinking he was just that, which was why he was wearing his surcoat the night he helped Sansa (or Sansa helped him) escape King's Landing.

[Milady of York]

Ragnorak and Brash, your comments on Joff's throwing of the direwolf attack on him at Sansa's face made me reread the passage again, and I think we may finally know how come Sandor used the "this one's own sister told the same tale" argument during his trial by the Brotherhood when Arya accused him of the murder of Mycah. In this scene, there's a passage in which Sansa says:

“You Starks are as unnatural as those wolves of yours. I’ve not forgotten how your monster savaged me.”

“That was Arya’s wolf,” she said. “Lady never hurt you, but you killed her anyway.”

The version Joffrey gave was that Arya and Mycah had attacked him with clubs and then Arya had set her direwolf on him. That version Sandor would've heard it either from Cersei, Joffrey or the Lannister household as we discussed during the corresponding chapter analysis, and our conclusions were that Sandor was told the lie that Sansa had confirmed Joffrey's version at the trial, which we know she didn't, so when he gave Beric this version it looks like he is either lying or using Sansa to validate himself. Yet, reading this passage, there's another more plausible explanation: Sandor is actually not lying in this regard, for as far as he knows that's what she did and her words here could be taken as unintentional confirmation too. He is there standing by Sansa's side, whom he's just brought to the king, and he's listening to the exchange between her and Joffrey, so from his standpoint, when Sansa says "it was Arya's wolf," it would be a confirmation to him. Whether or not he believed it when he was told that she said this at Darry, which happens to be the case as he specifies "to your precious Robert," this exchange would surely make him think so. If the wolf did attack Joffrey, for which he did have physical proof anyway, and Sansa here is saying her sister's wolf was the aggressor, it might be that the rest of the tale wouldn't sound so implausible to him who didn't witness the incident despite being untruthful.

[DogLover]

There's a comment on Rereading Tyrion on this, where it's noted how Sandor must feel having to stand there helpless as Sansa is beaten, only to see the Imp come in like a white knight from the stories, rescue Sansa and carry her off to her bedchamber! Certainly it would fuel some of the hatred he expresses re Tyrion's marriage in later chapters, and his drunken desire to be a Lord with all the attendant privileges. Sometimes it's not enough to be a dog. :(

I've often interpreted the scene similarly: Tyrion, who has always provoked Joffrey, now comes in and plays savior to Sansa (and continues to provoke Joffrey), leaving the Hound bristling. But now I'm inclined to think Sandor was relieved that someone stopped the beating, even if that someone was Tyrion.

[Milady of York]

I've often interpreted the scene similarly: Tyrion, who has always provoked Joffrey, now comes in and plays savior to Sansa (and continues to provoke Joffrey), leaving the Hound bristling. But now I'm inclined to think Sandor was relieved that someone stopped the beating, even if that someone was Tyrion.

I never got a sense that there was a competition on Sandor's part to be her sole saviour, either, and it appears rather like his words in ASOS are being retroactively applied to his previous actions perhaps as a way to create an artificial romantic triangle with the Imp as a way to "explain" their hostility, similar to how the Tysha case is brought up as a cause when there's other far simpler and more text-based causes for their hostility as we've discussed. Given that he was feeling overwhelmed and had reached a breaking point, publicly going against the king to stop the beating, his primary concern was Sansa's safety and well-being, not who stopped it, and since he was quick to give her his own Kingsguard cloak (I'd have paid to see Joffrey's face at this) as soon as the Imp opened his mouth, it could be said that he was even grateful that the horrible beating had ended. He wanted Sansa safe, and it'd be incredibly selfish to resent Tyrion for achieving it, more so when Tyrion wouldn't have been able to stop it either if not for invoking the name of Cersei, the only person Joffrey still feared. Sansa was grateful to all three who intervened: Dontos, Sandor and Tyrion, so there's no competition for the position of her true knight here, rather a combined effort of men doing what each can do according to their means.

[brashcandy]

Beautifully stated, brashcandy. The chapter opening with Sandor in Sansa's bedroom as she's dressing and fixing her hair initially seemed odd to me. Despite the sense of impending of doom readers feel for Sansa, the scene is very intimate and clearly intentional by GRRM (it would be difficult to image Sansa sharing such intimate space with Boros Blount or Meryn Trant if they were ordered to bring Sansa to the throne room). This does give the readers a sense of domestic space, and while it might initially seem odd, there's nothing inappropriate or sexual about it, even though Sansa is in a state of undress, buttoning up her gown, and grooming herself. The following events, in contrast to the Serpentine stairs wherein Sandor does take notice of Sansa’s figure, is the exact opposite of sexual in regards to the interaction between Sansa and Sandor throughout the entire chapter. Sandor is not standing around hoping to ogle Sansa, as Sandor’s warning that she hurry conveys concern. It’s Joffrey who demands that Sansa be stripped so he can ogle her while she’s beaten, but for the Hound, clearly, this offers no cheap entertainment. And, as the chapter opens with Sandor waiting for Sansa to dress, it’s he who covers her after she’s stripped right in front of him: again, the pattern of her dressing, then almost immediately stripped, and Sandor offering her his cloak is very intentional. As has been discussed in detail, the cloak, which Sansa accepts with relief, symbolizes marriage. Not only does this foreshadow a future union, but also reveals that Sandor is an acceptable partner for Sansa (just as the co-parenting scene with Tommen demonstrated that Sandor could actually be a positive father-figure). There’s been many posters who have argued that a marital relationship between Sandor and Sansa would be quickly marred by domestic violence, but this entire chapter states the contrary.

Thanks, DL, and you make some salient points in the bolded. It's as if Martin is keen to highlight the multifaceted nature of their relationship, one that develops under very stressful circumstances but still they manage to strike an accord with each other. This scene appears like a parallel to the first time when Joffrey had Sansa beaten in her room, and Sandor was also there, having been charged with getting her out of bed when she was only wearing a thin nightgown. In that scene, we also saw no inappropriate behaviour on his part, and he ends up staying after the other KG depart to give Sansa some needed advice. Here she's older now and his feelings have changed towards seeing her in a more romantic light, yet concern for her well being remains foremost in his mind as Sansa notices the look he gives her which fills her with dread, telling us that he was unable to keep his worry about the particularly bad nature of Joff's mood that day to himself. And yes, even if we were just to go on the spatial significance of their interactions alone, there's nothing to indicate that Sandor would turn into a domestic abuser, something to bear in mind when we come to the usual hotbed controversy of Blackwater.

Great post, Elba, and I totally agree with you! I do think Dontos convinced himself that he was truly helping Sansa. If Petyr told Dontos to refer to himself as Florian, Dontos probably deluded himself into thinking he was just that, which was why he was wearing his surcoat the night he helped Sansa (or Sansa helped him) escape King's Landing.

I think we can put this down to Sansa's effect on a lot of the non-knightly figures in her arc, as she is able to genuinely inspire Dontos despite him taking on the service for monetary gain. Regardless of how LF might have used him, Sansa did indeed save his life, and he becomes a lifeline for her once she is married to Tyrion and only has the hope of getting out of the city to keep her from becoming completely despondent.

[Milady of York]

This scene appears like a parallel to the first time when Joffrey had Sansa beaten in her room, and Sandor was also there, having been charged with getting her out of bed when she was only wearing a thin nightgown. In that scene, we also saw no inappropriate behaviour on his part, and he ends up staying after the other KG depart to give Sansa some needed advice. Here she's older now and his feelings have changed towards seeing her in a more romantic light, yet concern for her well being remains foremost in his mind as Sansa notices the look he gives her which fills her with dread, telling us that he was unable to keep his worry about the particularly bad nature of Joff's mood that day to himself. And yes, even if we were just to go on the spatial significance of their interactions alone, there's nothing to indicate that Sandor would turn into a domestic abuser, something to bear in mind when we come to the usual hotbed controversy of Blackwater.

Excellent point, Brash! This made me realise that with the two scenes in this chapter, the Hound has now gotten a glimpse of her body either thinly covered (during her first beating), half-dressed and naked thrice (during her last beating) in total. That is, every time he gets to see her in a state that'd arguably convey lustful attention, especially in the latter two scenes when Sansa is already developing curves that are attracting masculine eyes towards her at court, by her own observation, as well as unfortunately Joffrey's attention, it's at a moment and circumstance that preclude any romanticism, because the threat of violence is floating over and his chief preoccupation is to see her safe. It does read like the author's intention was to establish that there's deeper reasons for them to bond over than the physicality aspect, and so he encroaches their meaningful interactions in an indoors domestic setting or in a very private, out of sight outdoors setting that underscores their intimacy as well as disallow discovery.

[brashcandy]

Excellent point, Brash! This made me realise that with the two scenes in this chapter, the Hound has now gotten a glimpse of her body either thinly covered (during her first beating), half-dressed and naked thrice (during her last beating) in total. That is, every time he gets to see her in a state that'd arguably convey lustful attention, especially in the latter two scenes when Sansa is already developing curves that are attracting masculine eyes towards her at court, by her own observation, as well as unfortunately Joffrey's attention, it's at a moment and circumstance that preclude any romanticism, because the threat of violence is floating over and his chief preoccupation is to see her safe. It does read like the author's intention was to establish that there's deeper reasons for them to bond over than the physicality aspect, and so he encroaches their meaningful interactions in an indoors domestic setting or in a very private, out of sight outdoors setting that underscores their intimacy as well as disallow discovery.

Definitely, and it really establishes a clear contrast between Sandor and someone like Littlefinger, whose gaze makes her feel very uncomfortable in the way he is looking at her body, and this is when she is fully clothed. The riot rescue further underscores him as being a protector of her virtue as she would have suffered the fate of Lollys Stokeworth had he not saved her. Martin is very careful to distinguish between the kinds of threats posed to Sansa by those like Joffrey and Littlefinger (and later Tyrion) vs. the Hound's role in her developing sexuality, which seems geared towards a respectful stance on her desires and her bodily autonomy.

[Milady of York]

Definitely, and it really establishes a clear contrast between Sandor and someone like Littlefinger, whose gaze makes her feel very uncomfortable in the way he is looking at her body, and this is when she is fully clothed. The riot rescue further underscores him as being a protector of her virtue as she would have suffered the fate of Lollys Stokeworth had he not saved her. Martin is very careful to distinguish between the kinds of threats posed to Sansa by those like Joffrey and Littlefinger (and later Tyrion) vs. the Hound's role in her developing sexuality, which seems geared towards a respectful stance on her desires and her bodily autonomy.

Not only is she clothed, but it's also during a circumstance when Sansa is definitely stressed out and in a potentially unsafe situation, with her father just imprisoned and his household killed, which further broadens the abyss between both men. Then Littlefinger will ask for her hand when he's just betrayed her father, and currently as her false father, instead of showing some regard for her virtue or autonomy, he won't hesitate to sell her body out for gain, as he already did by revealing the Tyrell plan that resulted in her marriage. The contrast couldn't be more absolute in the way it's written.

This obsession over her is also why I think Littlefinger would have detected something was going on between Sandor and Sansa, in which Tyrion failed. It's interesting that the Imp has actually witnessed two scenes between the king's betrothed and the king's dog that'd have set all his alarm bells ringing loudly: first, during the beating, he sees that it's the Hound of all people who gives Sansa his cloak, and he never seems to find it curious nor reflects on it even once. Instead, he's insultingly condescending to the whole of the Kingsguard when he talks to Sansa right after he's taken her from the bailey to the Tower of the Hand, and in his words there's one line that definitely strikes readers as alluding to someone we know:

“Me as well. But more to the point, they frighten Joffrey and that nest of sly vipers and lickspittle dogs he calls a Kingsguard. With Chella or Timett by your side, no one would dare offer you harm.”

Who could "lickspittle dogs" be referring to if not Clegane, whose antipathy he reciprocates? This would be the first reason why Tyrion never detects the signs in his behaviour towards the Stark girl. One instance would be understandably easy to miss, but then there was another occasion, when Sandor returns to the castle with her in tow, dismounts and immediately asks for a maester for her, calling her "little bird," which coming from him could tell something, if you don't simply dismiss it speedily as just the Hound being mocking. This is a Tyrion POV, and he is keen enough to detect the fear of fire in Sandor's eyes, but he sees nothing unusual in what he did for or said about Sansa, for the second time in a row.

This lack of observance may have a threefold explanation: one, the two-way dislike for Sandor that causes him not to pay much attention to what he does, or not care about what he does; he's sweet Cersei's dog and Joffrey's, that's it. Two, that he has no interest in Sansa yet, sexual or otherwise, beyond keeping her alive, so he doesn't stop to think what she might or might not be causing in the Hound that could be of interest; that'd have been different had this happened later in ASOS when he was moping over their charade of a marriage, as he then did desire her sexually. And last, the burdens of ruling as Hand of the King occupied his mind and kept him distracted by more pressing occurrences than some odd gestures from these two. Littlefinger, on the other hand, would've likely focused on said odd gestures not necessarily because of greater powers of observation or intelligence but because of desiring Sansa for himself, which drives him to isolate her from any other man nearby eventually.

[Odon]

I never got a sense that there was a competition on Sandor's part to be her sole saviour, either, and it appears rather like his words in ASOS are being retroactively applied to his previous actions perhaps as a way to create an artificial romantic triangle with the Imp as a way to "explain" their hostility, similar to how the Tysha case is brought up as a cause when there's other far simpler and more text-based causes for their hostility as we've discussed. Given that he was feeling overwhelmed and had reached a breaking point, publicly going against the king to stop the beating, his primary concern was Sansa's safety and well-being, not who stopped it, and since he was quick to give her his own Kingsguard cloak (I'd have paid to see Joffrey's face at this) as soon as the Imp opened his mouth, it could be said that he was even grateful that the horrible beating had ended. He wanted Sansa safe, and it'd be incredibly selfish to resent Tyrion for achieving it, more so when Tyrion wouldn't have been able to stop it either if not for invoking the name of Cersei, the only person Joffrey still feared. Sansa was grateful to all three who intervened: Dontos, Sandor and Tyrion, so there's no competition for the position of her true knight here, rather a combined effort of men doing what each can do according to their means.

I'm not suggesting there was any feeling of competition to be her saviour, just that the scene would have driven home to Sandor that Tyrion - the one man in the Seven Kingdoms uglier than he is - had a better chance with Sansa than he ever would, just through being the son of a high lord.

[Houndbird]

I always interpreted the scene where Sandor warns Sansa to hurry as him being outside her bedroom and not inside. Later it says "when she emerged she walked on the Hound's left side", giving me this impression.

I'm not suggesting there was any feeling of competition to be her saviour, just that the scene would have driven home to Sandor that Tyrion - the one man in the Seven Kingdoms uglier than he is - had a better chance with Sansa than he ever would, just through being the son of a high lord.

I think Sandor was always aware that Tyrion as the Hand and uncle had the ability to help her that does not due to his station. However it doesn't translate into having a better chance with her.. Her unhappy marriage proves this.

Thank you all for this incredible thread. So wonderful to have it back after a years absence. I'm reading the books again and this analysis is in credibility enlightening to my reread.

[Milady of York]

I'm not suggesting there was any feeling of competition to be her saviour, just that the scene would have driven home to Sandor that Tyrion - the one man in the Seven Kingdoms uglier than he is - had a better chance with Sansa than he ever would, just through being the son of a high lord.

He doesn't need Tyrion to realise anything like that, though. He is a nobleman himself, he has worked for a high lord, a queen and a king since he was a child, and by simply living at court he's aware of how the nobility think and arrange marriages. Sandor isn't ignorant of the limitations of his social status. And Tyrion doesn't necessarily have a better chance with Sansa by simply being a son of a high lord, neither in the sense of reciprocating his feelings nor in the sense of being more acceptable to nobles given his dwarfism. Besides, it cannot be stressed enough that Tyrion didn't succeed in stopping the beating by simply being the son of a high lord, not even merely because he was the Hand, as Joff is above him in rank and if he wanted he could have ignored him--see how powerless he is when he loses the Handship--but because he said he'd call Cersei, and the Queen Regent is the one person Joff won't go against at that time.

I always interpreted the scene where Sandor warns Sansa to hurry as him being outside her bedroom and not inside. Later it says "when she emerged she walked on the Hound's left side", giving me this impression.

Welcome, Houndbird! Thanks for coming and sharing your thoughts.

From how the scene is written, it does look like Sandor is inside the bedchamber, or at the very least standing by an open door, because Sansa hears him speaking and doesn't say he's far or something like "spoke through the door" nor mentions he's outside. That and the look she sees in his eyes does indicate they're sharing a space. The line you quote that gave you the contrary impression says in full:

When she emerged, Sansa walked on the Hound’s left, away from the burned side of his face. “Tell me what I’ve done.”

The word construction of this entire passage is often taken too literally and it gives way to interpretations such as that this is a contradiction of Sandor's scars being placed on his left side, because of the "away from" line. But if you take everything in that passage into context and not just some words in isolation, it is saying that once they are out of the bedchambers and on the hall, she placed herself to walk at his left, scarred side a step behind and not side by side with the Hound, and that's the meaning of the "away from" line as in the third definition of this term (at a distance from). Same context-based consideration applies for "emerge." Note also that Sandor is a Kingsguard, and they do have more leeway to be in the presence of a royal lady whilst she's not exactly "presentable," something another man wouldn't be allowed to for reasons for propriety.

[Houndbird]

Thanks for the clarification Milady. Truly appreciated

[brashcandy]

Note also that Sandor is a Kingsguard, and they do have more leeway to be in the presence of a royal lady whilst she's not exactly "presentable," something another man wouldn't be allowed to for reasons for propriety.

Yes, as we also see Arys Oakheart present in her room when he is sent to escort her down to the king's name day tourney in her first chapter of Clash:

The morning of King Joffrey’s name day dawned bright and windy, with the long tail of the great comet visible through the high scuttling clouds. Sansa was watching it from her tower window when Ser Arys Oakheart arrived to escort her down to the tourney grounds. “What do you think it means?” she asked him.

...

“Shall we go?” Ser Arys offered his arm and she let him lead her from her chamber. If she must have one of the Kingsguard dogging her steps, Sansa preferred that it be him.

It stands to reason that Sandor also would have entered her room to wait until she was ready to depart.