The Starks Are Not First Men (Spoilers All)

[LmL]

From Wikipedia:

Thor Heyerdahl (Norwegian pronunciation: [tuːr hæiːərdɑːl]; October 6, 1914 April 18, 2002) was a Norwegian adventurer and ethnographer with a background in zoology, botany, and geography. He became notable for his Kon-Tiki expedition in 1947, in which he sailed 8,000 km (5,000 mi) across the Pacific Ocean in a hand-built raft from South America to the Tuamotu Islands. The expedition was designed to demonstrate that ancient people could have made long sea voyages, creating contacts between separate cultures. This was linked to a diffusionist model of cultural development. Heyerdahl subsequently made other voyages designed to demonstrate the possibility of contact between widely separated ancient people. He was appointed a government scholar in 1984.

[Jacob Clouw]

This is one of the best theories i have read in a long time. Big pops to you sir

[Darkstream]

Ser Patroclo@

Well, my original assessment, along with the sound counter arguments of Victarion Chainbreaker and LML have led me to the conclusion that your argument against this theory is total crap not very convincing. I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

[Darkstream]

Lord Martin@

Whether your theory proves to be right or not, I wanted to tell you great job, and I appreciate you sharing it with us. :thumbsup:

[LmL]

Yep, one of my favorites, and I keep finding more clues that ice magic also links back to the GEotD, which lends credence to Lord Martin's ideas.

[Tucu]

How would Garth Greenhand and the Green Men fit into this theory? Both share similar physical appeareance: green skin, green hair and antlers. They also share a connection to blood magic (Garth demanded sacrifices to improve harvests and the Green Men are associated with the weirwoods)

The myths place Garth in Westeros before the arrival of the First Men and link him to the Starks through Brandon of the Bloody Blade and Brandon the Builder.

Via HR we know that the Green Men are still around. Are they the last remnants of the proto-valyrians?

[LmL]

How would Garth Greenhand and the Green Men fit into this theory? Both share similar physical appeareance: green skin, green hair and antlers. They also share a connection to blood magic (Garth demanded sacrifices to improve harvests and the Green Men are associated with the weirwoods)

The myths place Garth in Westeros before the arrival of the First Men and link him to the Starks through Brandon of the Bloody Blade and Brandon the Builder.

Via HR we know that the Green Men are still around. Are they the last remnants of the proto-valyrians?

 

Quite possibly so (read this comment and the next several comments, and look for the info about "the Old Ones."

[DominusNovus]

I just want to say that the various theories of pre-Erikson contact between the Americas and Eurasia (after, of course, the submerging of Beringia) are far from conclusive. Thats not to say that they're without merit, just that they're not conclusive.

[LmL]

I just want to say that the various theories of pre-Erikson contact between the Americas and Eurasia (after, of course, the submerging of Beringia) are far from conclusive. Thats not to say that they're without merit, just that they're not conclusive.

Certainly not. And of course his own ideas are far from the only ones in this regard. He was out in front ofore current research which keeps pointing back further and further into antiquity for migrations to the Americas. The idea that everyone came over the land bridge is old and has been discredited. Certainly many did, but they were not the first people here. Again, plant genetics and human genetics have led to breakthroughs in this regard. Japan in particular has historical records of several expeditions to the Americas. And then we have the clearly African featured Olmec heads.

There's a lot of cutting edge research being done which shakes up the established views, but some people are very loyal to the status quo and shut their minds off to new information. You can always spot these people because in conversations about this topic, they will be very aggressive and dogmatic, and they get angry when anyone challenges the old & tired status quo line. The Egyptologists are still insisting the pyramids and Sphinx was built in 2500 BCE, and that the pyramids were tombs, and they won't let anyone with a different view conduct any research at Giza. The tombs idea has no basis in reality as the inner chambers of the pyramid have literally nothing in common with Egyptian burial sites. The Sphinx has been conclusively shown to have been eroded by several thousand years of rain - and of course the most recent date for heavy rainfall in Egypt is about 5,000 BCE at the latest.

I'm not a fan of alien theories, because I think that's underestimating mankind (badly), but there's just no getting around the fact that humans were building megalithic structures very accurately aligned to the stars and equinoxes and cardinal directions at least as long ago as 10,000 BCE, as the site of Gobekli Tepe proves. I'd say the Sphinx proves this also, but again, this idea has been shut out of the mainstream by Egyptologists and those who simply cannot fathom the consensus view of history being inaccurate, even though consensus views about history are constantly proven to be just that, and even though the geological evidence of rain erosion is absolutely ironclad.

Thor Heyrdahl simply proves that ancient man was capable of crossing oceans.

And of course all of this, while interesting, is only tangentially relevant, because we are talking about a fantasy novel. With magic.

What is really objectionable is when someone treats their own ideas about world history as being more important than the text of the books. The books indicate Asshai to Westeros movement in the Dawn Age, but some rule this out because they don't think Bronze Age people are capable of this. Thing is, the book says what it says, so people should really just check all that real world dogma at the door and read the story that Martin is writing.

[LmL]

In real life, sorcerers cannot cause comets to strike moons, but I've seen more than enough clues to indicate this is what Martin is saying. So it's up to us to figure out how that happened, bar none, because this is a fictional magical world and Martin can do whatever the hell he wants with it.

[Ser Patroclo]

Ser Patroclo@

Well, my original assessment, along with the sound counter arguments of Victarion Chainbreaker and LML have led me to the conclusion that your argument against this theory is total crap not very convincing. I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

you missed the obvious trolling part


It's clear that a society taming dragons supposedly used to make those black stones according to the op, can simply fly around the world.

Anyway it was fun reading your answers :)

[LmL]

you missed the obvious trolling part


It's clear that a society taming dragons supposedly used to make those black stones according to the op, can simply fly around the world.

Anyway it was fun reading your answers :)

Just FYI, trolling is against board policy and can get you a warning in a thread with people that are more touchy than we. You might try adding a smiley to avoid confusion, remember that the Internet does not translate sarcasm very effectively. There wasn't really anything in your comment to indicate it was meant in jest, which is why nobody interpreted it that way.