A MASSIVE series-changing Bran theory: The IceBrandon

[Daendrew]

If someone told you when only a Clash of Kings was out or A Game of Thrones that Cate would become an murdering undead vengeful spirit mother in charge of an army of outlaws? What would you say.

You would laugh, tell them to take off the tinfoil hats that pick up country music stations and not pay them any attention.

I get all the downvotes and derision (not so much here) because I am telling them about The IceBrandon which is like telling use before about unCat.

[LmL]

Sailors, by nature a gullible and superstitious lot, as fond of their fancies as singers, tell many tales of these frigid northern waters. They speak of queer lights shimmering in the sky, where the demon mother of the ice giants dances eternally through the night, seeking to lure men northward to their doom. They whisper of Cannibal Bay, where ships enter at their peril only to find themselves trapped forever when the sea freezes hard behind them.

They tell of pale blue mists that move across the waters, mists so cold that any ship they pass over is frozen instantly; of drowned spirits who rise at night to drag the living down into the grey-green depths; of mermaids pale of flesh with black-scaled tails, far more malign than their sisters of the south.

Of all the queer and fabulous denizens of the Shivering Sea, however, the greatest are the ice dragons. These colossal beasts, many times larger than the dragons of Valyria, are said to be made of living ice, with eyes of pale blue crystal and vast translucent wings through which the moon and stars can be glimpsed as they wheel across the sky. Whereas common dragons (if any dragon can truly be said to be common) breathe flame, ice dragons supposedly breathe cold, a chill so terrible that it can freeze a man solid in half a heartbeat.

They described the Demon Mother of Ice Giants there. Not Ice Dragons.

No, the pale blue mists are not the ice giants. They are listing all the various things that sailors tell of: ice giants, AND Cannibal bay, AND the pale blue mists, AND the drowned spirits, AND the mermaids, AND the ice dragon. But then it directly links the cold mists - the pale blue ones- to the ice dragon:

Archmaester Margate has suggested that many legends of the north - freezing mists, ice ships, Cannibal Bay, and the like - can be explained as distorted reports of Ice Dragon activity.

There's really no way to interpret the pale blue mists as connected to the ice giants, they are connected to the ice dragon. And since the ice dragon breathes COLD, and the cold is always associated with blue and white, this fits with the pale blue mist being linked to the ice dragon. So far, I do not see any textual basis to connect the grey mists to the Ice Dragon, which is a major pillar of your theory. If you want to hold this quote up as evidence in favor of your theory, you need to address the pale blue mists. Repeating this quote but cutting out the blue mists part gives the appearance of selective editing to make things fit your theory. If your theory is right, you should be able to explain this seeming discrepancy.

I don't agree or disagree with your connection of the ice dragon to Bran, just fyi, but I think if it's correct, you should be able to find text to support this link, and to tie the grey mists to the ice dragon. Colors are very important , because George is very intentional in the way he uses them. Grey is not white, and grey is not blue.

​ETA: You would get less down votes, I am thinking, if you supported your somewhat ambitious conclusions with a bit more textual proof. As I said, I like your ideas as hypothesis, but you're presenting them as facts and making predictions for the end game without really taking the time to heavily corroborate your theories from the text. I think if you took the time to do this, you'd be able to lead people up to your conclusions, some of which may be 100% right.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

If someone told you when only a Clash of Kings was out or A Game of Thrones that Cate would become an murdering undead vengeful spirit mother in charge of an army of outlaws? What would you say.

You would laugh, tell them to take off the tinfoil hats that pick up country music stations and not pay them any attention.

I get all the downvotes and derision (not so much here) because I am telling them about The IceBrandon which is like telling use before about unCat.

I'd say "Cool!" It's a fantasy series after all so it's possible.

I agree there is ice dragon symbolism, I just don't see it tied specifically to Bran at this point. He can see through the trees, we know that, and through birds, but not through the sky. The character with one eye in this series is Euron. Well, and Beric. Oh, and Bloodraven, but even he can't see through the moon.

When TWoW comes out, I will be keeping this theory in mind as I read Bran's chapters because you may have something here. You just need some more evidence is all.

[Daendrew]

Freezing mists can come from the Ice Dragon as well as Demon Mother.

The Ice Dragons eyes are the brightest blue of anything. So those eyes can make grey mists blue.

[LmL]

That... seems like a stretch. I think you should just word search all the occurrences of mist in the books and see what you find, it should sort you out one way or the other. But you are kind of doing contortions right now with this passage about the ice dragons to make the grey mists fit... It's not necessary. If the grey mists really are ice dragon mists, it will be corroborated elsewhere. Just go find the proof. If your theory is true, the proof is out there.

Anyway I won't go round and round and drag down your thread, just wanted to express my thoughts on the mists and encourage you to dig deeper into the text. Cheers :)

[The Mother of The Others]

Nature may be the antihero, and Bran is allied with it. Nature may have to do the hard terrible things that are necessary but which people balk at, like "Don't do that!" The antihero is still a hero. When Varymyr does abominable things those things are abominable because he's scuzzy as is his intent. When Bran does those things they're for the best. He's classed as a wild thing now and nobody charges an actual wolf with murder because that's how the natural world operates. The Builder did things on a grand scale and the Climber has that same potential to change the world. He isn't being turned into an ice dragon for chaos' sake; he's still himself at heart as is Arya and he's being groomed to reach the heart of winter and nudge it onto a more friendly footing with the world of the living. His heart feels the chill but isn't to be defined by the cold. Though that will be the challenge, to fend off psychic frostbite.

[Daendrew]

The anti-hero is not Bran or The Others. The anti-heros are the Gods. The actual ones, not the ones they pray to. "There is only one god and his name is death." They have eaten of the Ironwood Tree of Eternal life AND the Weirwood Tree of Knowledge signified by both white and black wood.

Magic came back into the world when Dany burnt down The House of The Undying. That is power from the Gods escaping. They want it back and will make brothers (Man and Other) fight one another to do it.

[LmL]

Magic came back into the world a long time before that. We had Others even before Dany's dragons hatched.. that's just a bizarre statement.

[Daendrew]

Of course dragons were born etc etc. I am not talking about that.

The flood gates opened after she came closer to the warlocks and burned The House of The Undying:

Dany had laughed when he told her. "Was it not you who told me warlocks were no more than old soldiers, vainly boasting of forgotten deeds and lost prowess?"

Xaro looked troubled. "And so it was, then. But now? I am less certain. It is said that the glass candles are burning in the house of Urrathon Night-Walker, that have not burned in a hundred years. Ghost grass grows in the Garden of Gehane, phantom tortoises have been seen carrying messages between the windowless houses on Warlock's Way, and all the rats in the city are chewing off their tails. The wife of Mathos Mallarawan, who once mocked a warlock's drab moth-eaten robe, has gone mad and will wear no clothes at all. Even fresh-washed silks make her feel as though a thousand insects were crawling on her skin. And Blind Sybassion the Eater of Eyes can see again, or so his slaves do swear. A man must wonder." He sighed. "These are strange times in Qarth. And strange times are bad for trade. It grieves me to say so, yet it might be best if you left Qarth entirely, and sooner rather than later." Xaro stroked her fingers

[LmL]

No, again you are twisting the order of events. She burned the warlocks house AFTER this quote, therefore AFTER all these things took place. Just like the grey mists were there BEFORE Bran screamed.

[Daendrew]

No. Read what I wrote. Magic was more powerful when she came close....and then when she burnt it. Two separate things.

[Daendrew]

Double post. Winter is Flying.

[LmL]

What you wrote was:

Magic came back into the world when Dany burnt down The House of The Undying.

Then you changed that to:

The flood gates opened after she came closer to the warlocks and burned The House of The Undying.

​And then you quoted the list of freaky things happening in Quarth to prove your idea that magic was boosted by her burring of the HotU. But none of this works. All of these magical things happened BEFORE she burned the HotU. None of this indicates magic increased when the HotU was burnt.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

What you wrote was:

Then you changed that to:

​And then you quoted the list of freaky things happening in Quarth to prove your idea that magic was boosted by her burring of the HotU. But none of this works. All of these magical things happened BEFORE she burned the HotU. None of this indicates magic increased when the HotU was burnt.

However, the glass candles in Urrathon Night-Walker's house didn't start burning again until after the HotU was destroyed. Could be Daen is on the right track but having trouble getting the right quotes to properly defend his theory.

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Nature may be the antihero, and Bran is allied with it. Nature may have to do the hard terrible things that are necessary but which people balk at, like "Don't do that!" The antihero is still a hero. When Varymyr does abominable things those things are abominable because he's scuzzy as is his intent. When Bran does those things they're for the best. He's classed as a wild thing now and nobody charges an actual wolf with murder because that's how the natural world operates. The Builder did things on a grand scale and the Climber has that same potential to change the world. He isn't being turned into an ice dragon for chaos' sake; he's still himself at heart as is Arya and he's being groomed to reach the heart of winter and nudge it onto a more friendly footing with the world of the living. His heart feels the chill but isn't to be defined by the cold. Though that will be the challenge, to fend off psychic frostbite.

:agree:

[Daendrew]

However, the glass candles in Urrathon Night-Walker's house didn't start burning again until after the HotU was destroyed. Could be Daen is on the right track but having trouble getting the right quotes to properly defend his theory.

Euron made Theon kill the man in Winterfell only after it was burnt down. Being able to make a glass candle burn is not the same as becoming a Night-Walker, turning people into sleep walking murderers.

[Daendrew]

What you wrote was:

Then you changed that to:

​And then you quoted the list of freaky things happening in Quarth to prove your idea that magic was boosted by her burring of the HotU. But none of this works. All of these magical things happened BEFORE she burned the HotU. None of this indicates magic increased when the HotU was burnt.

You can see the post was made at 6:18 and then edited within 20 seconds posting at 6:19. You replied half an hour later at 6:53.

You can see I did not change my original post content.

I am no longer discussing minutiae like timestamps with you any further. If you want to have a substantive discussion on larger issues, fine.

[LmL]

No I wasn't talking about timestamps, they were two separate comments. But it doesn't matter - I was mistaken. :blushing: Apologies Daen - this quote does take place AFTER she burns the HotU. Sorry about that... carry on.

[Daendrew]

No I wasn't talking about timestamps, they were two separate comments. But it doesn't matter - I was mistaken. :blushing: Apologies Daen - this quote does take place AFTER she burns the HotU. Sorry about that... carry on.

Because Lucifer means Lightbringer leads to Azor Ahannister, i unForgive you, as you don't need any forgiveness.

[LmL]

And I DID give you the ice dragon quote.. ;) I'm always trying to help. I generally try to stay agnostic about theories until I'll personally looked for the evidence in the books. Sometimes things that seem out there at first are actually part of the truth. I find that the text will usually sort it out with enough scrutiny.

That said, it IS interesting that all that stuff happens after the HotU is burned down. Never noticed that. I wonder what she set loose.

Actually, I think I know what. Oh Shit. That building is described as a stone snake, is it not? The Warlocks are creatures of shadow, are they not? Yet they sought to take Daenerys's magic, which is fire magic.. do they have a way of wielding fire magic somehow, in their own, 'shadowy' way?

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.…

It doesn't look like a tower from the outside, but doesn't Daenerys go up and up and up a staircase when she is inside? It's a 'shadow tower.'

What do you think of that?