hodorisfaclessman Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 This argument is useless, Stannis lovers will love Stannis and proclaim him the one true king until the end of time. Someone with the name "Stannis Broatheon" is not going to change his opinion on the matter. Now if we're going to argue anyway then Renly's plan was better than Stannis's plan (or lack thereof) because he had far more men than anyother challenger and was slowly marching on King's Landing while everyone else weakened themselves. How is that not a good plan? If Stannis didn't mess it up with unpredictable dark magic, it's fairy safe to assume Renly would have taken the throne. no one is saying it wouldnt work its just not any kind of brillant plan , it works due to the sheer massive weight of numbers the tyrells have it doesnt require any kind of effort, political wrangling or thinking on renlys part ...the kingdom is at war and whoever the tyrells back will surely win basicaly He happens to be in with the ambitious tyrells thanks to loras and as lord of stormsend has connections to contact stormlords and get them on board what is seemingly an unstoppable juggernaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezko Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I said that Renly succes came from the Tyrells. And that his plan was simple but good. Renly's success came from Renly approaching powerful families and gaining their support. You're right about it being a good plan, I wouldn't call it that simple. Now an example of a simple plan would be Stannis's plan of sitting on Dragonstone doing...let's see..nothing. Perhaps he was doing some reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Renly's success came from Renly approaching powerful families and gaining their support. You're right about it being a good plan, I wouldn't call it that simple. Now an example of a simple plan would be Stannis's plan of sitting on Dragonstone doing...let's see..nothing. Perhaps he was doing some reading.Renly never planned to crowned himself king he just saw an oportunity and took it. Being " friends " with Loras, gave him the edge in the comflict, that and Ned's death that put the North and Riverlands against the Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Renly's success came from Renly approaching powerful families and gaining their support. You're right about it being a good plan, I wouldn't call it that simple. Now an example of a simple plan would be Stannis's plan of sitting on Dragonstone doing...let's see..nothing. Perhaps he was doing some reading. He and loras approached one family with something they were prob thinking about anyway and the rest fell in line stannis were are told was apparently gathering swords and allowing mel to weed out varys men there ..not much else he could do given his brothers betrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezko Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Renly never planned to crowned himself a king he just saw an oportunity and took it. Being " friends " with Loras, gave him the edge in the comflict, that and Ned's death that put the North and Riverlands against the Lannister. He saw an opportunity and took it...so coming up with a good plan very quickly makes it not a plan? Having allies gives him an edge, again you're right. How is that a bad thing? He has allies because he is charismatic and understands politics. Unlike Stannis he did not wait 8 months to come up with...no plan. He saw his chance and made a plan. A good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 He saw an opportunity and took it...so coming up with a good plan very quickly makes it not a plan? Having allies gives him an edge, again you're right. How is that a bad thing? He has allies because he is charismatic and understands politics. Unlike Stannis he did not wait 8 months to come up with...no plan. He saw his chance and made a plan. A good one. Who said that the plan was bad? It was simple, but not bad. And as far as we know Renly made good friends with Loras and just it. And that was probably because both were attracted to each other, and were the few homosexsuals at court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Who said that the plan was bad? It was simple, but not bad. And as far as we know Renly made good friends with Loras and just it. And that was probably because both were attracted to each other, and were the few homosexsuals at court. Loras squired for renly so they were friend for a while before lovers. Renly was charismatic people like him hes Robert without the depression drinking and whoreing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezko Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Who said that the plan was bad? It was simple, but not bad. And as far as we know Renly made good friends with Loras and just it. And that was probably because both were attracted to each other, and were the few homosexsuals at court. In your last post you said it wasn't a plan at all. If you're denying that Renly was charismatic then I'm not really sure you read the books at all. Maybe just the Davos povs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Loras squired for renly so they were friend for a while before lovers. Renly was charismatic people like him hes Robert without the depression drinking and whoreing. I dont know about Loras and Renly relationship, so I guess you are right, but the poster said that Renly made lots of allies at court when we just know about Renly. I never said that Renly was not charismatic, he was, but that his charisma was not really that important for his initial succes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezko Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I dont know about Loras and Renly relationship, so I guess you are right, but the poster said that Renly made lots of allies at court when we just know about Renly. I never said that Renly was not charismatic, he was, but that his charisma was not really that important for his initial succes. It was incredibly important. That's how he managed to get all those powerful families to support him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 In your last post you said it wasn't a plan at all. If you're denying that Renly was charismatic then I'm not really sure you read the books at all. Maybe just the Davos povs I told that he never planned to become king, Ned's coup,until he left KL. And I said that the plan was good and simple, read my post again. And I never said that Renly was not charismatic, I just said, that his initial succes came because their ties with the Tyrells, not his charisma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I dont know about Loras and Renly relationship, so I guess you are right, but the poster said that Renly made lots of allies at court when we just know about Renly. I never said that Renly was not charismatic, he was, but that his charisma was not really that important for his initial succes. Well renly was able to put a hundred or 2 swords into Ned's hands to get joffrey and the others into their custody.Not sure if any of them are named and I don't have my agot to check. It helped if he had stannis' charisma he wouldn't be loras' lover so he wouldn't be able to get the Tyrells on team renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 It was incredibly important. That's how he managed to get all those powerful families to support him. His host was Tyrell+ his own banners. And his ties with the Tyrells come from his relationship with Loras, which we dont know if charisma had anything to do with it. You said that he made lots of allies when, as far as we know, he just made the Tyrells his allies, which is not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well renly was able to put a hundred or 2 swords into Ned's hands to get joffrey and the others into their custody.Not sure if any of them are named and I don't have my agot to check. It helped if he had stannis' charisma he wouldn't be loras' lover so he wouldn't be able to get the Tyrells on team renly. We dont know about the 200 man, I think that he said something like I have X man, you have Y together we can win Z and you will become regent as Robert wanted. And sometimes people fall in love with uncharismaric people. Renly was attractive so Loras may have started to like him for that and probably his charisma, but we dont know how important the charisma factor was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezko Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 We dont know about the 200 man, I think that he said something like I have X man, you have Y together we can win Z and you will become regent as Robert wanted. And sometimes people fall in love with uncharismaric people. Renly was attractive so Loras may have started to like him for that and probably his charisma, but we dont know how important the charisma factor was. So according to you Renly owes all his success to Loras Tyrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So according to you Renly owes all his success to Loras Tyrell. Partially. Not all. He was lord of SE and also smallfolk liked him. But his initial succes came mostly from the Tyrells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezko Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Partially. Not all. He was lord of SE and also smallfolk liked him. But his initial succes came mostly from the Tyrells. And not one of the Tyrell bannermen spoke against their support of Renly. Because they believed in him too. You're right about the smallfolk liking him but you left out the fact that nobles also liked him. Why you ask? Because he's charismatic. Or maybe it's because he and Loras were lovers. Yeah that's more likely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 And not one of the Tyrell bannermen spoke against their support of Renly. Because they believed in him too. You're right about the smallfolk liking him but you left out the fact that nobles also liked him. Why you ask? Because he's charismatic. Or maybe it's because he and Loras were lovers. Yeah that's more likely...We dont know if the Tyrell's bannermen like him, they just obey their liege. You just made that up. And not all the Reach bannermen send all their forces, like the hightowers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 We dont know if the Tyrells bannermen like him, they just obey their liege. You just made that up. And not all the Reach bannermen send all his force, like the hightowers. Because of twin hostages. If they didn't like the idea of renly as king they wouldn't obey their liege and go over to the Lannisters or send nobody rather than give renly an army 80k+ (he claims 100k but Idk). How could they not like him he was hosting tourneys to announce a new kg as they won a war without fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis broatheon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Because of twin hostages. If they didn't like the idea of renly as king they wouldn't obey their liege and go over to the Lannisters or send nobody rather than give renly an army 80k+ (he claims 100k but Idk). How could they not like him he was hosting tourneys to announce a new kg as they won a war without fighting.People like Tarly may hate all the bullshit about tourneys, and others like the Florents maybe scared of the Tyrells. We just dont know if the lords of the Reach like Renly or not. And some lords sent residuals force compared to their host, like the Hightowers. And part of Renly's force come from the Stormlands that would probably 30k bannermen+ Tyrells that could have like 60k men on the field. 30k+60k=90k, and that would be a realistic size to Renly's host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.