Who among the baratheon brothers would make the best king

[Minsc]

-and yet LF and varys dont allow the kings lack of interest hinder them from exploiting their positons  in fact they thrived on it

 

LF and Varys didn't exploit their positions in the manner that you are suggesting.  Robert didn't want to get rid of the corruption, thus Renly cannot go around and get rid of the corruption.  Just like Arryn probably didn't want to waste a ton of money, but Robert did thus he couldn't stop that.

 

 

-Yeah he didnt feel renly was discreet/smart enough to keep his  mouth shut despite how valuable having another brother on board would be....again speaks volumes

 

No it tells us nothing, as we have no idea why Arryn didn't bring it to him.  Possibly Stannis was opposed as he wanted to hog the credit all to himself and he didn't want Renly jeopardizing his position as heir by warning Robert.

 

 

-He had plenty of options he just choose the most selfish one and no robert didnt set a precedent for what renly was doing , renly was setting his own dangerous one of taking a crown because he could and he felt he was best suited.

 

Yeah, he had other options like getting himself killed and selfishly chose the one which had him not get killed.  Taking power was Renly's third option, while it was Stannis' second despite Stannis having a much larger time frame to come up with another plan.  Robert absolutely set the precedent of rebelling against the king and jumping to head of the line despite others being before him.

 

 

-cressen and more

 

Yeah more useless opinions.

 

 

-his plan wasnt complicated at all , it worred varys and cersei due to the scale of the forces his connections landed him ..nothing sophisticated at all

 

You know the complete details of the plan how?  Seeing we get neither a Renly or Tyrell POV.

 

 

his advice to ned was just common sense using his large retinue and any other his connections+ neds name and cause could muster to face a despised queen

 

Still a better and more sophisticated plan then anything Stannis has ever thought of during the books.

 

 

-noyes assesment while not 100% largely holds up and olenna is one of the better players in the game so her assesement holds weight

 

Noye's assessment falls flat on its face with him being dead wrong about two of the people he is talking about and him having no insight into the third person.  Please, Renly has done much more showing himself to be a better player then Olenna has.  Making bitter comments and teaming up once with LF doesn't make one of the best.

 

 

-plenty of people follow those they dont respect , if he hadnt a realtionship with loras to bring along the ambitious tyrells id doubt anyone would have followed him given the general impression most had of him

 

A general impression that the majority of people like him and are willing to follow him even when he is rebelling against the crown.  There is nothing suggesting that the Stormlords and Reach lords didn't respect him.  While a decent amount showing they liked/loved him enough to follow him.

[Eddard Scissorhands]

The Stag has three heads! Only then he would be fit to rule  :idea:

[Light a wight tonight]

Renly for peace, Stannis for hard times and seriously, Robert has to stop drinking and whoring first.

Since when does whoring interfere with the ability to rule? A little fling now and again, no great matter. Robert's major failing was that he had no interest in the day-to-day activities of government, just in the perks that come with being King, including use of the realm's treasury. He left governance to his Council, who were mostly Lannister appointees.

[Valyrian Blade]

Robert would've been a good king if he hadn't been so damn depressed about Lyanna and his shitty marriage. 

 

But Stannis is the one fit to rule, Renly thinks it's all games and jests.

[Pigeon Pie]

Renly. 

[Hodor the Articulate]

Since when does whoring interfere with the ability to rule? A little fling now and again, no great matter. Robert's major failing was that he had no interest in the day-to-day activities of government, just in the perks that come with being King, including use of the realm's treasury. He left governance to his Council, who were mostly Lannister appointees.

It actually wouldn't be that bad having an uninvolved King, provided his people are competent.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Funny, the author disagrees with you.  I think GRRM knows the character better than you do.

 

 

Does he?

 

Did he not write about Stannis being jealous of Renly having Storms End, about Ned being made Hand, about Roberts leadership?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Does he?

 

Did he not write about Stannis being jealous of Renly having Storms End, about Ned being made Hand, about Roberts leadership?

Yes he did.  He also wrote that Stannis claimed the throne because it's his and according to his duty, honor, and the law he has to claim it, not because of jealousy.  GRRM talks about Stannis' devotion to duty, even at great personal cost to himself.  Look it up if you don't want to take my word for it.

 

Remember the scene where Stannis tells Davos that he saw himself in the flames...being devoured by his own crown?  Nobody pursues that for vanity.  And you don't even have to scour SSMs for that one, it's right there in the text.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Rickard and Brandon were openly insulting Rhaegar, as far as I can remember, they did not come to KL after giving them the key to the North.
Any evidence of Stannis being just the Castellan? Robert have him all the power in SE as far as O can remember. And that would mean that he was ruling for Robert, like Bran did when Robb went south.

Brandon threatened to kill him.  Which is treason, and very very stupid with King Pyro on the throne.

 

Rickard was blameless.  He did nothing remotely wrong, and even answered the king's summons over his son's behavior--his adult son who was legally responsible for his own actions.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Yes he did. 

Then provide the quote from the author.

 

There is plenty of evidence of Stannis being jealous of his brothers and Ned,

[Truly Just Man]

The provide the quote from the author.

 

There is plenty of evidence of Stannis being jealous of his brothers and Ned,

Stannis felt slighted, and rightly so. And what does that change?

 

 

No it tells us nothing, as we have no idea why Arryn didn't bring it to him.  Possibly Stannis was opposed as he wanted to hog the credit all to himself and he didn't want Renly jeopardizing his position as heir by warning Robert.

 

 

Is there any evidence whatsoever supporting this?

[Stannis broatheon]

 
LF and Varys didn't exploit their positions in the manner that you are suggesting.  Robert didn't want to get rid of the corruption, thus Renly cannot go around and get rid of the corruption.  Just like Arryn probably didn't want to waste a ton of money, but Robert did thus he couldn't stop that.
 
 
No it tells us nothing, as we have no idea why Arryn didn't bring it to him.  Possibly Stannis was opposed as he wanted to hog the credit all to himself and he didn't want Renly jeopardizing his position as heir by warning Robert.
 
 
Yeah, he had other options like getting himself killed and selfishly chose the one which had him not get killed.  Taking power was Renly's third option, while it was Stannis' second despite Stannis having a much larger time frame to come up with another plan.  Robert absolutely set the precedent of rebelling against the king and jumping to head of the line despite others being before him.
 
 
Yeah more useless opinions.
 
 
You know the complete details of the plan how?  Seeing we get neither a Renly or Tyrell POV.
 
 
Still a better and more sophisticated plan then anything Stannis has ever thought of during the books.
 
 
Noye's assessment falls flat on its face with him being dead wrong about two of the people he is talking about and him having no insight into the third person.  Please, Renly has done much more showing himself to be a better player then Olenna has.  Making bitter comments and teaming up once with LF doesn't make one of the best.
 
 
A general impression that the majority of people like him and are willing to follow him even when he is rebelling against the crown.  There is nothing suggesting that the Stormlords and Reach lords didn't respect him.  While a decent amount showing they liked/loved him enough to follow him.

1. Your view of Stannis is quite different from the own writer. GRRM said that Stannis is concerned with duty, never with glory as you are suggesting.
2. Do you know Stannis plan before Robert's death? It seems that you have read a book with his PoV and acknowledge all that he was planning.
3.Now you are claiming that people cant judge Renly's plan wothout his PoV when you are doing the same with Stannis.
4.Stannis after Blackwater, did one of the smartest moves in the series, for the forces that he had, go to the North and forge and alliance of loosers, deposing traitors. We dont know alot about Renly's plan, but most of it cam from the power of his boyfriend's family.
5. Noye was right about young Robert, and about Stannis through out the series. Stannis started with 5k man or fewer, but he still cliamed the throne, because it was his by rights,and then to try to win the throne he went to the North when winter was coming, to try to assemble a bigger host. That fits pretty well his iron description. And part of Renly's description was right, that he looked pretty from the outside, so his opinions about the Baratheons is not wrong at all.
6. Smallfolk like him, because he was a popular figure, but we dont know how much nobles like him. All his force came from the title that his brother gave him, and the marriage that his boyfriend offered. That shows little to nothing about devotion. We know that Brienne was devoted to him because she was in love with him, the same could be said about Loras.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1. Your view of Stannis is quite different from the own writer. GRRM said that Stannis is concerned with duty, never with glory as you are suggesting.

When did he say that? Do you have the quote?
 

2. Do you know Stannis plan before Robert's death? It seems that you have read a book with his PoV and acknowledge all that he was planning.

8 months of doing nothing. That pretty much says it all. What was he waiting for? Why does he never complain that he didn't have time to enact this 'plan'? I mean he complains about everything else.

 

This is a case of Occam's Razor, he was doing nothing as that is what the book suggests.
 

3.Now you are claiming that people cant judge Renly's plan wothout his PoV when you are doing the same with Stannis.

I think he's pointing out the hypocrisy in your opinions over Renly and Stannis. You are telling people that they cant judge Stannis plans as we dont have his POV yet you are doing the same towards Renly. You can't have it both ways,
 

4.Stannis after Blackwater, did one of the smartest moves in the series, for the forces that he had, go to the North and forge and alliance of loosers, deposing traitors. We dont know alot about Renly's plan, but most of it cam from the power of his boyfriend's family.

Was that not smart, partnering up with one of (if not the) most powerful Lords in Westeros?

 

And much of Stannis' support came from his wife's family,
 

5. Noye was right about young Robert, and about Stannis through out the series. Stannis started with 5k man or fewer, but he still cliamed the throne, because it was his by rights,and then to try to win the throne he went to the North when winter was coming, to try to assemble a bigger host. That fits pretty well his iron description. And part of Renly's description was right, that he looked pretty from the outside, so his opinions about the Baratheons is not wrong at all.

Sure. Being able to bend and change your orders is actually better when you are trying to rule over a fractured kingdom. Renly would compromise, Stannis never would and that is why he was doomed to fail from the start.
 

6. Smallfolk like him, because he was a popular figure, but we dont know how much nobles like him. All his force came from the title that his brother gave him, and the marriage that his boyfriend offered. That shows little to nothing about devotion. We know that Brienne was devoted to him because she was in love with him, the same could be said about Loras.

 

What is wrong with inspiring love? I'd say having that kind of devotion is pretty useful for a King. Renly was more popular with the nobles than Stannis was, far more popular. It is odd that you think this some kind of negative.

[Stag_legion]

 

If he legitimizes them, their claims become stronger than his, considering it makes them Robert's legitimate sons.

Doesn't work like that. Stannis being King all inheritance to the throne restarts to the closest male relative of stannis, meaning if stannis had a son his son would be higher in line than Robert's legitimized bastards and of course stannis above everyone. Robert doesn't maintain kingship after death! succession is always related to the living king.

 

Of course if edric or gendry were legitimized they would be higher in succession than Shireen. So stannis wouldn't legitimize them unless shireen was dead.

[Megz]

Stannins, he is the least selfish and ready to sacrifice the most for the good of others, because duty is the most important thing for him. Plus he is not going to walk around wasting time with whores and creating bastards, but will serve the kingdom instead.

[Bobby b's bobby]

Doesn't work like that. Stannis being King all inheritance to the throne restarts to the closest male relative of stannis, meaning if stannis had a son his son would be higher in line than Robert's legitimized bastards and of course stannis above everyone. Robert doesn't maintain kingship after death! succession is always related to the living king.
 
Of course if edric or gendry were legitimized they would be higher in succession than Shireen. So stannis wouldn't legitimize them unless shireen was dead.

Well if Shireen was going to be Stannis' heir a legitimised Edric marriage would be a good way to keep the Baratheons going.

[Truly Just Man]

Much of Stannis' support came from his wife's family,

 

 

False. Florents supported Renly first. Much of his power came from sellswords and pirates. Some sworn to Dragonstone houses as well. 

[Stag_legion]

Well if Shireen was going to be Stannis' heir a legitimised Edric marriage would be a good way to keep the Baratheons going.

No, politically it would be more useful to marry shireen to a member of another great house and keep Edric around just in case. Also unlike the targaryens baratheons generally don't like marriage within the family. There hasn't been a single case of a baratheon marrying another baratheon.

 

 

PS. Actually I get your point about the baratheon name! Generally the husband's house name is kept, but if I m not mistaken in the case of marrying into a royal house with no male heirs the husband would adopt his wife's house name. Like how the Andal king in westerlands Joffrey Lydden adopted his wife's lannister name and became Jeoffry Lannister and house lannister continued from there.

[Drogonthedread]

Stannins, he is the least selfish and ready to sacrifice the most for the good of others, because duty is the most important thing for him. Plus he is not going to walk around wasting time with whores and creating bastards, but will serve the kingdom instead.

so ready to sacrifice the most and man of duty that fled from the capital and not telling the king what he suspects

you are right with the whoring though unlike his brother he just bangs this hot witch with red hair

[Bobby b's bobby]

No, politically it would be more useful to marry shireen to a member of another great house and keep Edric around just in case. Also unlike the targaryens baratheons generally don't like marriage within the family. There hasn't been a single case of a baratheon marrying another baratheon.

Then the Baratheons die out or at least lose the throne. Before RR there wasn't a single case of a Baratheon king or a Baratheon killing his brother with his lovers queef so you know first time for everything .