The Dragons Hand Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Stannis in a society without nobility, and Renly in the world of Westeros. And how does one have a Kingdom without such a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's still worthless cressen hasn't seen renly since renly was 6. 6? edit found the timeline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Writhen Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Stannis, followed by Robert, then Renly. Being a phenomenal tactician and commander are excellent, kinglike traits. Its just like Tywin's little speech to Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitering Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 And how does one have a Kingdom without such a thing? Stannis would make an extremely good dictator or an absolute monarchy, you don't need nobles to have a kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 -Not if the King doesn't care to stop it. Not even Jon Arryn could put an end to the corruption and he had much more power and weight with Robert. -The same precedent that both his brothers created? That seems to be Stannis' problem not his seeing how he declared first not Stannis. Moreover, seeing how he saw the alternative as being death I can understand why he didn't care about the precedent. Cressen didn't educate him as he left Renly when he was six. Moreover, that quote better fits Stannis then it doesn't Renly. Seeing how Renly came up with the calculated long game plans to win the throne. While, Stannis thinks the tactic of rushing a defense fortification that has an army in the field is the height of brilliance with him wanting to do it three times. Noye is equally useless (especially with him being wrong about the other brothers), while I addressed Olenna above. You know besides the 100s of thousands of people that followed him. Along with people like Randyll Tarly and Lady Oakheart who both mentioned as loving him in the same breath as Loras and Brienne by Penrose. -he has other ways if hes master of laws nor did he reach out to jon arryn for an obvious alliance there.......nor did jon arryn reach out to him even when investigating the possibility of the children being ilegitimate which again speaks volumes about how he saw renly -are you actualy talking renlys weak ass excuse that his circumstances are the same as roberts? Hes taking the throne because he belives hed be best as king and hes got a big army ..nothing more -doesnt mean he didnt stay in touch with the maester at stormsend who did also 'brillant plans' he throws his boyfriends hot sister at his horny brother , trys to talk some common sense into ned and then uses his connections built up over the years to get the ambitious tyrells and the stormlords to sieze the crown.......hes not machevelli here noye and olenna both seem decent judges of character with olenna being one of the noted politcal players in the books.......both see him in a poor light -they followed him as his boyfriends families army meant he seemed like hed be a sure winner in the war , plenty liked him yes but few respected him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Lol Renly's claim was worse than Stannis from all the laws in Westeros saying that his claim was not worse is just a lie. Stannis couldn't prove the incest, so that's a moot point. It's even more of a moot point since Stannis didn't say anything before Robert died OR Renly crowned himself (and jesus almost two months after that happened). We know he's behind in the line of succession and that Joff/Tommen/Myrcella are bastards. Very few people in Westeros know and/or are disposed to doing something or care about it. So in the eyes of literally everyone, Renly is jumping 4 spots, not 1. Stannis wants to jump 3. If you honestly think that anyone would give a shit about that distinction, I have some seafront property in Arizona to sell you. And when confronted about proof of it by Renly and Cat, Stannis grinds his teeth and says nothing. He has no proof. To all of Planetos, they are just jealous brothers vying for their dead brothers crown in contest with their nephews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 -he has other ways if hes master of laws nor did he reach out to jon arryn for an obvious alliance there.......nor did jon arryn reach out to him even when investigating the possibility of the children being ilegitimate which again speaks volumes about how he saw renly The Master of Laws doesn't have more power then the king, thus if the king doesn't want it to change then it doesn't matter what the Master of Laws wants. No, that doesn't tell us anything besides that Jon wanted to keep it on the low. -are you actualy talking renlys weak ass excuse that his circumstances are the same as roberts? Hes taking the throne because he belives hed be best as king and hes got a big army ..nothing more Seeing how Cersei has shown herself to be nuts and thinks to herself how she planned to deal with him yes I do accept that she was a threat to his safety. At least for Renly crowning himself was his third option while it was second for Stannis even when the latter had about a year to come up with another plan. Nor does that change the fact that Robert set that precedent. -doesnt mean he didnt stay in touch with the maester at stormsend who did also 'brillant plans' he throws his boyfriends hot sister at his horny brother , trys to talk some common sense into ned and then uses his connections built up over the years to get the ambitious tyrells and the stormlords to sieze the crown.......hes not machevelli here We have no hint of the two visiting or writing to each other. Moreover, Cressen is still highly biased in the situation. His plan was likely more complicated then that seeing how both Cersei and Varys show some worrying about it. It is pretty good that he is able to put together a solid plan to secure Ned's regency in only a couple of hours. It shows that he is able to build on his connections to create a powerful alliance. noye and olenna both seem decent judges of character with olenna being one of the noted politcal players in the books.......both see him in a poor light Noye was wrong about both Stannis and Robert thus his judgement is obviously flawed. Olenna is a bitter old woman that likes insulting people with no reason to speak well of Renly at that time with a dozen reasons to do the opposite. Renly shows himself to being a better political player than anything Olenna has done. -they followed him as his boyfriends families army meant he seemed like hed be a sure winner in the war , plenty liked him yes but few respected him And where are you getting that? If they didn't respect him then they wouldn't have followed him. Penrose speaks of a number of people as loving him which shows off why they followed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenlyIsNotRight Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I've been a devoted Stannis fan for years now (suck my nuts D&D) and I've always maintained that Stannis would be a very good wartime king. That said I'm less sure he'd be a great peacetime king, but at very least he'd be less wasteful than Robert was and Renly probably would also be. Even with that said, Robert really wasn't as bad of a king as people made him out to be anyway. Westeros had what, 14 years of relative peace and stability and a rebellion put down? Sounds way better than any Targ in recent memory to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I've been a devoted Stannis fan for years now (suck my nuts D&D) and I've always maintained that Stannis would be a very good wartime king. That said I'm less sure he'd be a great peacetime king, but at very least he'd be less wasteful than Robert was and Renly probably would also be. Even with that said, Robert really wasn't as bad of a king as people made him out to be anyway. Westeros had what, 14 years of relative peace and stability and a rebellion put down? Sounds way better than any Targ in recent memory to me. Really .. u cant remember anyone even mad king gave the realm peace for twenty years. dont say its all tywin then its all due to jon arryn ..atleast the treasury was full and economy was good when mad king ruled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Really .. u cant remember anyone even mad king gave the realm peace for twenty years. dont say its all tywin then its all due to jon arryn ..atleast the treasury was full and economy was good when mad king ruled The Mad King basically no value to the people of Westeros. Robert did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Lol Renly's claim was worse than Stannis from all the laws in Westeros saying that his claim was not worse is just a lie. You guys crack me up .. tell me whether now the westrosi read the books like we do .you did use this arguement about why stannis not telling ned ..but you cant see how stannis and renly will look for the people inuniverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 02 The Mad King basically no value to the people of Westeros. Robert did. am i to understand that mad king did no value to the people .. Exactly thats why the country is in so much debt to the iron bank and the whole rebellions and civil wars ..a brother thinks he will kill him if he shared his doubts on his advice ..only attending the meeting of a small council to order a killing of the pregnent girl and her child( please dont change the subject i know they are dothraki )..and whats worse people wishing that mad king was alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenlyIsNotRight Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 and whats worse people wishing that mad king was alive When the fuck did that ever happen? Are you really drinking that much Targ Kool Aid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 am i to understand that mad king did no value to the people .. Exactly thats why the country is in so much debt to the iron bank and the whole rebellions and civil wars ..a brother thinks he will kill him if he shared his doubts on his advice ..only attending the meeting of a small council to order a killing of the pregnent girl and her child( please dont change the subject i know they are dothraki )..and whats worse people wishing that mad king was alive 1- Well the debt likely has something to do with LF cooking the books. I have heavy doubt that the Crown is in so much debt because of tournaments. And the IB only come to collect their due once Cersei was in power, which means the Crown was likely paying off it's loans before that point. 2- Stannis didn't think Robert would kill him. I don't know where that idea comes from, because it's certainly not from Stannis. Stannis thought Robert wouldn't believe him (he's right) and he thought Cersei would kill him (he's right). 3- The Daenerys thing was wrong, but Robert repented. And if we're calling out Kings for their faults, how about Aerys burning people alive, and wanting to set KL on fire because he thought it would turn him into a dragon? Or how he savagely raped his wife and let her have absolutely no freedom? Robert's value was in his charisma. He was able to keep the realm together after they overthrew a 300 year dynasty because people liked him. He had a knack for turning enemies into friends. That's in the novels, and Jon Arryn had nothing to do with that. With the Mad King, Tywin did just about everything for him and I can't imagine what Aerys did that had value. He was an eccentric man with crazy ideas, who turned into a paranoid lunatic that got off on setting people on fire. His own son was likely planning on getting rid of him. Big difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 When the fuck did that ever happen? Are you really drinking that much Targ Kool Aid?In ACoK IIRC. It was an old man talking about how things were better when the old king was still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenlyIsNotRight Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 In ACoK IIRC. It was an old man talking about how things were better when the old king was still around. Okay that I vaguely remember, but considering ACoK was during Joffreys reign, it's an understatement to say comments like that should be taken with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 When the fuck did that ever happen? Are you really drinking that much Targ Kool Aid? Like nictarian said so saying robert is not worse than mad king is not an understatement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farstrider Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 None of those three would make a good king. Robert would make a good sellsword. Renly would make a good projectile for Joffrey's catapult. Shoot him right into the walls of Dragonstone. Stannis would make a fitting guest for Ramsay and Roose Bolton. I think they just might enjoy having him over for the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 1- Well the debt likely has something to do with LF cooking the books. I have heavy doubt that the Crown is in so much debt because of tournaments. And the IB only come to collect their due once Cersei was in power, which means the Crown was likely paying off it's loans before that point. 2- Stannis didn't think Robert would kill him. I don't know where that idea comes from, because it's certainly not from Stannis. Stannis thought Robert wouldn't believe him (he's right) and he thought Cersei would kill him (he's right). 3- The Daenerys thing was wrong, but Robert repented. And if we're calling out Kings for their faults, how about Aerys burning people alive, and wanting to set KL on fire because he thought it would turn him into a dragon? Or how he savagely raped his wife and let her have absolutely no freedom? Robert's value was in his charisma. He was able to keep the realm together after they overthrew a 300 year dynasty because people liked him. He had a knack for turning enemies into friends. That's in the novels, and Jon Arryn had nothing to do with that. With the Mad King, Tywin did just about everything for him and I can't imagine what Aerys did that had value. He was an eccentric man with crazy ideas, who turned into a paranoid lunatic that got off on setting people on fire. His own son was likely planning on getting rid of him. Big difference between the two. please atleast he had ideas for something to do with people ..young aerys was also said to be charismatic did i say he didnt burn anyone ..all am saying was he gave the realm peace for twenty years which you guys wont give him credit ..i would be ok with that if you guys also said that it was actually jon arryn who kept the peace instead of making excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 But Stannis wasn't scared of Cersei or Jaime after Robert's death. Convenient, no? ;) That's cause he was nowhere near them. GRRM himself said that Stannis had no power base to protect him in King's Landing. There's no need to be worried about them bumping him off after he gets a shadowbinder who can't be poisoned. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.