Who among the baratheon brothers would make the best king

[Stannis broatheon]

Aye those who he tried to burn

and dont forget his views on bastards ..if he cant stand beside his own brother and let him take throne ..he is hardly going to let a bastard of robert

and all this considering he would be alive

When did he try to burn Gendry? Are you just a show viewer and havent read the books at all?

[Truly Just Man]

 

 

Which is meaningless if more Lords and people want Renly as King.

 Whic is meaningless if he outlives his brother. 

[Bobby b's bobby]

When did he try to burn Gendry? Are you just a show viewer and havent read the books at all?

He's working on it he's got men in the riverlands looking for him.

[Drogonthedread]

When did he try to burn Gendry? Are you just a show viewer and havent read the books at all?

If stannis is going to legitamise any bastard it will happen in the show ..since gendry took the role of edric in the show i view them as same ..

i have read the books multiple time thank you but thats not the point ,.if you think either edric in books or gendry in show after learning stannis tried to burn them will they come anywhere near him

[Stannis broatheon]

If stannis is going to legitamise any bastard it will happen in the show ..since gendry took the role of edric in the show i view them as same ..

i have read the books multiple time thank you but thats not the point ,.if you think either edric in books or gendry in show after learning stannis tried to burn them will they come anywhere near him

Never said that. He could send a ravens saying that he legitimize Edric. You dont need either to come to Stannis, or even Stannis for that matter. Aegon, Danny or even Tommen or Euron

[Drogonthedread]

That still didnt take away the point that he did take his family to ground does it

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Never said that. He could send a ravens saying that he legitimize Edric. You dont need either to come to Stannis, or even Stannis for that matter. Aegon, Danny or even Tommen or Euron

 

Only actual Kings can legitimize.

[Stannis broatheon]

That still didnt take away the point that he did take his family to ground does it

Renly and Robert also took their "family to the ground" and Stannis is still alive so he could still restore his dinasty as kings of the 7k and lords of SE.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Renly and Robert also took their "family to the ground" and Stannis is still alive so he could still restore his dinasty as kings of the 7k and lords of SE.

 

How did Robert take his family to the ground? Robert did nothing wrong to Aerys, he never lost Storms End and actually made the Baratheons the most powerful family in the realm. Robert, along with Orys, is the most significant member of the Barathon family.

 

Renly didnt lose Storms End, was keeping his nephew Edric safe and had got much of the realm supporting him.

 

Stannis knew Robert was in trouble, didn't bother warning him and allowed him to die, he assassinated Renly and was seriously considering sacraficing his nephew Edric until he escaped.  He has also lost Storms End.

 

Stannis has done more harm to the Baratheons than anyone else in the series and possibly the last 300 years.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
How did Robert take his family to the ground? Robert did nothing wrong to Aerys, he never lost Storms End and actually made the Baratheons the most powerful family in the realm. Robert, along with Orys, is the most significant member of the Barathon family.
 
Renly didnt lose Storms End, was keeping his nephew Edric safe and had got much of the realm supporting him.
 
Stannis knew Robert was in trouble, didn't bother warning him and allowed him to die, he assassinated Renly and was seriously considering sacraficing his nephew Edric until he escaped.  He has also lost Storms End.
 
Stannis has done more harm to the Baratheons than anyone else in the series and possibly the last 300 years.

Robert gave to much power to the Lannisters in Kl look how big Cercei personal guard was. The Lannisters owned, KL and that it was led to all the conflicts that we got.
Just 2 kingdoms supported Renly. So it is false to say that most of the kingdoms support him. And Renly crowning himself, was one of the reasons that hurt his family too. Stannis did not allow Robert to die. He just thought that he was in danger and Robert would not believe him. He considered to kill Edric, but to safe the world, and then thought that Davos was right because he was innocent. And is too soon to say that Stannis is a failure or not. He may become a legend if he defeats the WW.

[Bobby b's bobby]

Robert gave to much power to the Lannisters in Kl look how big Cercei personal guard was. The Lannisters owned, KL and that it was led to all the conflicts that we got.
Just 2 kingdoms supported Renly. So it is false to say that most of the kingdoms support him. And Renly crowning himself, was one of the reasons that hurt his family too. Stannis did not allow Robert to die. He just thought that he was in danger and Robert would not believe him. He considered to kill Edric, but to safe the world, and then thought that Davos was right because he was innocent. And is too soon to say that Stannis is a failure or not. He may become a legend if he defeats the WW.

Why does the size of the redcloaks matter?
Look at the council it's Baratheon not Lannister. What started all the conflicts was 2 horrible twins, one sad wank called lf, one crap king and one honourable man brought in to fix problems he really shoudnt be.

Renly crowning himself if he isn't taken out by a queef saves the baratheons unfortunately he was and now the last 2 are stuck in the frozen north.

He did let Robert die I like stannis he's probably my favourite character but I can't think of a real excuse for a dutiful just man to sit 8 months away from the capital.

[Stannis broatheon]

Why does the size of the redcloaks matter?
Look at the council it's Baratheon not Lannister. What started all the conflicts was 2 horrible twins, one sad wank called lf, one crap king and one honourable man brought in to fix problems he really shoudnt be.

Renly crowning himself if he isn't taken out by a queef saves the baratheons unfortunately he was and now the last 2 are stuck in the frozen north.

He did let Robert die I like stannis he's probably my favourite character but I can't think of a real excuse for a dutiful just man to sit 8 months away from the capital.

It is not just the redcloaks. Jamie dare to attack the hand of the king and no one punished him. He also gave the title of warden of the East to Jamie, and Cercei control some members of the small council to the point of trying to kill the hand of the king. He gabe to much power to the Lannisters, and that is just obvious.
Renly crowning himself was a risky move, because if he succeded he could create a huge legal hole during succesion wars,that would lead to alot of civil wars in the future. And Renly crowning himself king made his family to face each other in a war weakening his dinasty, he thought that Joffrey was his nephew, so that move was kind of selfish towards the Baratheons as a dinasty.
We dont have Stannis PoV to know what he was planning in DS we probably will never know about it.

[Bobby b's bobby]

It is not just the redcloaks. Jamie dare to attack the hand of the king and no one punished him. He also gave the title of warden of the East to Jamie, and Cercei control some members of the small council to the point of trying to kill the hand of the king. He gabe to much power to the Lannisters, and that is just obvious.
Renly crowning himself was a risky move, because if he succeded he could create a huge legal hole during succesion wars,that would lead to alot of civil wars in the future. And Renly crowning himself king made his family to face each other in a war weakening his dinasty, he thought that Joffrey was his nephew, so that move was kind of selfish towards the Baratheons as a dinasty.
We dont have Stannis PoV to know what he was planning in DS we probably will never know about it.

I wasn't saying he didn't give the lannisters too much power just that they didn't own kl.

Isn't warden of the x a meaningless title if your not a major landed lord. Why would the vale follow jaime in anything but a defensive war and if it is defensive war yeah jaime is a decent commander so good job Robert.

Yes renly crowning himself made him need to fight his nephew but he thought cersei would be trying to kill him he was right and Joffrey was close to his mother. Without the shadow it would have been a fairly easy win for renly. I will agree it was fairly selfish but doubt it would start a trend of civil wars.

Hell if stannis won it would just look like an ambitious uncle usurping his nephew with a weak incest claim.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Robert gave to much power to the Lannisters in Kl look how big Cercei personal guard was.

 

I'm not sure how that is relevant. Look at how many guards Ned brought with him,  Robert had the entire Gold Cloaks and I'm guessing his own House hold knights as well.

 

He also gave the title of warden of the East to Jamie, and Cercei control some members of the small council to the point of trying to kill the hand of the king. He gabe to much power to the Lannisters, and that is just obvious.

 

 

Yes, let us look at the Small Council.  Robert was King, Renly Master of Law, Stannis Master of Ships and Barristan Lord Commander. The Small Council was dominated by the Stormlands and the Baratheons in particular.

 

Renly crowning himself was a risky move, because if he succeded he could create a huge legal hole during succesion wars,that would lead to alot of civil wars in the future.

 

 

As would Stannis. He had no evidence that they were bastards. Both Stannis and Renly were opening up the same can of worms.

 

And Renly crowning himself king made his family to face each other in a war weakening his dinasty

 

 

Renly crowned himself first, no one forced Stannis to crown himself or even challenge Renly to fight.

 

 

We dont have Stannis PoV to know what he was planning in DS we probably will never know about it.

 

 

We know that in 8 months he did nothing. Had he done something Robert might have lived, Stannis been made the official heir. He did nothing and he, or any of his entourage, have revealed some plan. He is not complaining that he didnt have enough time for his 'plan' to work, he just did nothing.

[Stannis broatheon]

I wasn't saying he didn't give the lannisters too much power just that they didn't own kl.

Isn't warden of the x a meaningless title if your not a major landed lord. Why would the vale follow jaime in anything but a defensive war and if it is defensive war yeah jaime is a decent commander so good job Robert.

Yes renly crowning himself made him need to fight his nephew but he thought cersei would be trying to kill him he was right and Joffrey was close to his mother. Without the shadow it would have been a fairly easy win for renly. I will agree it was fairly selfish but doubt it would start a trend of civil wars.

Hell if stannis won it would just look like an ambitious uncle usurping his nephew with a weak incest claim.

The warden of the east title is a military thing. If the IT was fighting a war, lets say against Braavos, Jaime would command 1/4 of the army.
Renly wanted to secure his position of power or even increased it. Cercei had no power in SE, it seems to have pretty loyal bannermen inside the fortress. And Cercei trying to strip a lord paramount his title could lead to a huge rebellion. I think that Renly wanted power, and he saw Cercei as obstacule to achieve more. That is why he tried to back Ned, and then crowned himself king.

[Stag_legion]

There is an obvious clue why stannis would be better than renly, remember Renly dismissing book reading? according to Loras he thought only maesters should read books. That right there tells you how shallow his character was.

 

Some posters think just because not much was said about Renly that he would be a great king but even the very small amount of info we get about him strongly suggests that he was little more than a medieval equivalent of a jocky. A popular guy, but not so bright.

[Stannis broatheon]

 
I'm not sure how that is relevant. Look at how many guards Ned brought with him,  Robert had the entire Gold Cloaks and I'm guessing his own House hold knights as well.
 
 
Yes, let us look at the Small Council.  Robert was King, Renly Master of Law, Stannis Master of Ships and Barristan Lord Commander. The Small Council was dominated by the Stormlands and the Baratheons in particular.
 
 
As would Stannis. He had no evidence that they were bastards. Both Stannis and Renly were opening up the same can of worms.
 
 
Renly crowned himself first, no one forced Stannis to crown himself or even challenge Renly to fight.
 
 
 
We know that in 8 months he did nothing. Had he done something Robert might have lived, Stannis been made the official heir. He did nothing and he, or any of his entourage, have revealed some plan. He is not complaining that he didnt have enough time for his 'plan' to work, he just did nothing.

1. It is not just the redcloaks, Cercei had a huge spynetwork, and Lannisters also had people inside the white cloaks, and westerlands bannermen were occupaying most positions.
The Baratheon brothers were part of the small council, but Barristan was not there because he was one of Roberts man. But he also let people like LF or Maester Pycelle run their own thing , not cheecking corryptuon or if they were loyal.
Stannis evidence was Edric, he just wanted him to show everyone how different he was from Cercei's kids, and I would say that lots of people would believe him with just Edric. Renly had no claim by law even if the incest was true.
Crowning yourself first=/= having a better claim by law, that is just stupid.
We know that Stannis was gathering swords at his fortress or that is what Tywin knows. So I would say that he was planning something, but we dont know how. Or he maybe doing nothing, we will never know, unless we have a Stannis PoV talking about it.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

1. It is not just the redcloaks, Cercei had a huge spynetwork,

 Did she? Can you give evidence of this huge spynetwork?  She seems to get most of her information from Varys and some Littlefinger.

and Lannisters also had people inside the white cloaks, and westerlands bannermen were occupaying most positions.

No they were not.

 

On the Small Council there was 3 men from the Stormlands, 2 from the Vale, 1 from the Citadel and 1 from Essos.

 

In the Kingsguard there was 2 from the Stormlands, 2 from the Westerlands and 1 from the Vale, Reach and Crownlands.

 

How was the Westerlands occupying the most positions?  Robert had made sure that the Stormlands dominated the positions followed by the Reach then the Westerlands.
 

 

The Baratheon brothers were part of the small council,

 Exactly. What more could Robert have done. He made them both Lords when he didnt have to, he gave them both positions on the Small Council when he didnt have to.

 

Robert went out of his way to give the Baratheons power.

but Barristan was not there because he was one of Roberts man.

 

Whose man was he?

But he also let people like LF or Maester Pycelle run their own thing ,

And? 

not cheecking corryptuon or if they were loyal.

 What does this have to do with Robert being bad for the Baratheons?

Stannis evidence was Edric, he just wanted him to show everyone how different he was from Cercei's kids,

It's not really evidence. Robert already knew about Edric, he had seen Edric and his other children as had many, many other people. Edric was not some secret.

 

If this 'evidence' was not good enough to give to Robert than it's not good enough to prove he was king. Besides, wasn't Stannis considering burning this evidence.

 

and I would say that lots of people would believe him with just Edric.

Then why didnt he use his nephew before Robert died?

 

Stannis knew and had met Edric long before Robert had died.

Renly had no claim by law even if the incest was true.

Stannis has no claim by law. Like Renly, he had to beat the current king that is why he needed to assassinate his popular brother and try to take his men.

 

Crowning yourself first=/= having a better claim by law, that is just stupid.

No one said anything different.

 

You made a poor point that Renly was bad for the Baratheons because he was facing Stannis in the field. It was Stannis who challenged him,
 

We know that Stannis was gathering swords at his fortress or that is what Tywin knows. So I would say that he was planning something, but we dont know how. Or he maybe doing nothing, we will never know, unless we have a Stannis PoV talking about it.

So as far as we know he was doing nothing. We  judge people on what we do know, until further evidence surfaces then we can say he was doing nothing for his brother.

[Stannis broatheon]

 Did she? Can you give evidence of this huge spynetwork?  She seems to get most of her information from Varys and some Littlefinger.
No they were not.
 
On the Small Council there was 3 men from the Stormlands, 2 from the Vale, 1 from the Citadel and 1 from Essos.
 
In the Kingsguard there was 2 from the Stormlands, 2 from the Westerlands and 1 from the Vale, Reach and Crownlands.
 
How was the Westerlands occupying the most positions?  Robert had made sure that the Stormlands dominated the positions followed by the Reach then the Westerlands.
 
 

 Exactly. What more could Robert have done. He made them both Lords when he didnt have to, he gave them both positions on the Small Council when he didnt have to.
 
Robert went out of his way to give the Baratheons power.
 
Whose man was he?
And? 

 What does this have to do with Robert being bad for the Baratheons?
It's not really evidence. Robert already knew about Edric, he had seen Edric and his other children as had many, many other people. Edric was not some secret.
 
If this 'evidence' was not good enough to give to Robert than it's not good enough to prove he was king. Besides, wasn't Stannis considering burning this evidence.
 
Then why didnt he use his nephew before Robert died?
 
Stannis knew and had met Edric long before Robert had died.
Stannis has no claim by law. Like Renly, he had to beat the current king that is why he needed to assassinate his popular brother and try to take his men.
 
No one said anything different.
 
You made a poor point that Renly was bad for the Baratheons because he was facing Stannis in the field. It was Stannis who challenged him,
 
So as far as we know he was doing nothing. We  judge people on what we do know, until further evidence surfaces then we can say he was doing nothing for his brother.

Illyn Payne, The hound, Robert's squire, the westerlandmen were overtepresented in KL for their relative population.
And LF mention that the queen has some kids spying for her in AGoT.
The small council does not represent and the white cloacks are not the only positions that the king appoint in kingslanding, and Robert was surrounded by Westerlanders.
Robert knew about Edric, but he may have never thought about the incest. And most people knew about Robert's bastards, but they probably never knew about how did they look. And who knows if Stannis asked for Edric, and they did not let him have it as a squire because he may hate him ( because he was the product of Robert disrespecting Stannis.
Stannis claim is better than Renly even if the twicest was false, and if people believed the incest he was Robert's heir. Saying that Stannis' claim is as good as Renly's by law is stupid.
Renly was the one that induced Stannis and Joffrey to face them, becuse he was usirping what their rights.

[Universal Sword Donor]

Anyone can correct me if am wrong

it was renly who crowned first right

 

He was crowned first yes. He was also crowned 2 months before Stannis sent out the letters saying that Robert's kids were products of incest and were bastards.

 

Renly crowned himself a few days into 299 AC. Davos comes back on 2/1/299 saying the Stormlands won't rise for Stannis because they are with Renly. Just over a month later, Stannis sends out the letter saying Joffrey is a bastard and declaring himself king.

 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8