Gendrys mother

[Clegane'sPup]

18 minutes ago, FuzzyJAM said:

No doubt a Faceless Woman secret glamoured Targ warged by Bloodraven.  

<snip>

My ramblings and musings are based on being snowbound. But, damn, this is the first I have heard of a FW glamoured by a Targ & warged by BR. Tis cool <chuckle>.

[desire]

Cersei  can't even sing the bear and the maiden far so no.

[Clegane'sPup]

19 minutes ago, desire said:

Cersei  can't even sing the bear and the maiden far so no.

Eternal gratitude to the Seven. I would not be able to bare another tale about the bear and the maiden. Polar or kohala stories maybe, at least they would not be licking honey from anyone's hair whether it be from up there or down there.

[finger]

10 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Y

What I don’t get is, if Varys is the one who put Gendry there, why Varys would be interested in Robert’s bastards. Did Robert one day ask  Varys to keep track of them?” The reason I ask is that Varys tells Tyrion that Robert fathered eight, to the best of his knowing.

Then there is that other reference made by Stannis concerning Edric, “My royal brother played the fond father on his visits to Storm's End, and there were gifts . . . swords and ponies and fur-trimmed cloaks. The eunuch's work, every one. The boy would write the Red Keep full of thanks, and Robert would laugh and ask Varys what he'd sent this year.”

When it comes to Gendry, I’m wondering if he was born in KL or was he brought to KL? I’m stretching and crack potting here, but purple velvet is associated with Illyrio via Tyrion and the color purple is associated with Braavos frequently. The doors at Tobho Mott’s joint are described as double doors of ebony and weirwood.” The doors Arya sees at the HoBaW are also described as being weirwood and ebony.

 

That caught my eye, too. And that ability of Varys with disguises. It's said that he acquired it travelling with a mummers troupe. Maybe, or he might have connections with some people good at disguising, Who knows, no crackpot meant.

You raise a good point, Varys' interest in Robert's bastards. Why should he care? Anything having to do with information means power, and Varys must know about Jaime and Cersei through his little birds. He could try  to use them as a shield in case Cersei tried to play him wrong in the eyes of Robert. I doubt Robert gave a darn for his bastards.

The fact is that I don't have a settled opinion. Gendry and Varys are still alive as the story goes, they might give us some answers.

Btw, Gendry's mother was some blonde alehouse wench. Robert wasn't choosy when mating.

[sweetsunray]

13 hours ago, FuzzyJAM said:

No doubt a Faceless Woman secret glamoured Targ warged by Bloodraven.  

Actually, what I find odd about Gendry is that Tobho Mott sent him away.  I guess there were enough hints that Gendry was in danger (he refused to reveal Gendry's identity even to Ned) and with the death of Robert I guess he realised things were looking grim.  But what doesn't make sense to me is that Varys took so long (however long Ned is in the cells - a week or two?) to capture him for his own ends.  Cersei being a little slow makes sense 'cause she's incompetent and had plenty other things to worry about, of course, but Varys?  

FuzzyJam, I think Ned's letter was for Tobho Mott, and getting Gendry to safety was Ned's counter bargain-chip to his confession of treason. He thinks of broken promises and Robert's death. He made several promises to Robert and not one was he able to keep, not a one. Except for the small chance of mentoring one of his bastards as his own at the Wall - Gendry. Without it, I doubt very much that Varys would have helped save Gendry. If LF knows what Cersei did to Robert's bastard twins at Lannisport and the mother a few years before, then surely Varys must know it too. And then he declares to Tyrion that he never thought Barra's life or that of her mother to be in jeapordy. Duh?!!!!! Since when has Varys become a naive fool about Cersei and Robert's bastards? That's a gross lie right there.

I know many people think Varys wanted to keep the bastards safe in order to expose Cersei's children to be frauds. But I don't think that he wanted that at all. No, he wished to have the most incompetent rulers on the throne so that the people would hate them and hail fAegon as their savior. And exposing Cersei's children as frauds would actually sabotage that plan, because then lords and people might consider Stannis after all. So, I think Varys wanted the bastard evidence removed. And the reason that Varys didn't mind saving Gendry after all, once Ned required it, was because his mother was already dead. Yes, he had a mother with blonde hair, but without anyone having the ability to reproduce her, it would be a common bastard's word against a Queen's.

If Varys had wanted to use the bastards to expose Cersei, he would have saved as many as he could along with their mothers and have them smuggled out.

[sweetsunray]

19 hours ago, WhitewolfStark said:

There were two other bastards in different brothels that Ned found on his own, they're mentioned and one is even mentioned with having blond hair that has the dark roots showing it's dyed.

Hmmm, have to reread that. Thanks!

[FuzzyJAM]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

snippy

That makes a lot of sense.  I figured that whatever his aims, Varys would either want Gendry dead or kept in a cell somewhere, and I still think that would be his preference.  But I had forgotten Ned was not supposed to die, and Varys wanted to keep him at least a little sweet.

It's definitely the aim to make everyone hate the "Baratheon" reign as much as possible so exposing the reigning monarch as not a Baratheon could indeed undermine things - if incest is revealed, you're replacing the usurper of the usurper with the "true king", rather than just the one usurper.  Doubles the potential number of "true king" lines you have to combat!   

[sweetsunray]

2 minutes ago, FuzzyJAM said:

That makes a lot of sense.  I figured that whatever his aims, Varys would either want Gendry dead or kept in a cell somewhere, and I still think that would be his preference.  But I had forgotten Ned was not supposed to die, and Varys wanted to keep him at least a little sweet.

It's definitely the aim to make everyone hate the "Baratheon" reign as much as possible so exposing the reigning monarch as not a Baratheon could indeed undermine things - if incest is revealed, you're replacing the usurper of the usurper with the "true king", rather than just the one usurper.  Doubles the potential number of "true king" lines you have to combat!   

Exactly! Varys exposing Joffrey or Tommen as frauds who are not Baratheon undermines his aim to smear the Baratheon line. Joffrey's reign and Tommen's through Cersei are the perfect tool to convince lords and people alike - no more Baratheons! If you then turn around and say, "But these horrible kings weren't even Baratheons," then the whole plan falls falt on its face. So, Varys and Cersei have actually a mutual interest in disposing of the bastards.

Varys had no intention by himself to save Gendry imo. He did it as his personal off-page deal with Ned. But then Joffrey had Ned beheaded, and Robb had broken the siege of RR and had captured Jaime, and Yoren was heading for the RL. With Ned dead, and the risk of the bastard falling in Robb's hands, it seems to me very likely that it was Varys who informed the gold cloaks where to find Gendry. It's noteworthy that Cersei never considers the failing gold cloaks or the eldest bastard boy that escaped her. It's as if she does not even know he ever existed at all. Of course, the gold cloaks may have just thought - we'll lie and say we killed him; but they had promised Yoren to return with a bigger force, something they never did as far as we know. Of course, by the time they returned, it seems as if Tyrion had Slynt chained in shackles and sent on a fast boat for the Watch. It's either a plot hole, or a tidbit of info that got lost in the cuagmire of other news and duties, or it was something that Varys eventually did not push for at all anymore hoping that Gregor, Bloody Mummers or Ser Amory would slaughter them all. 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

21 hours ago, Ghost of Harrenhal. said:

This is my first thread, to begin with. Somebody has probably noticed this before me, but i noticed it myself and haven't seen any threads about this before. And i'm sorry if my english is not correct, it's not my first language. 

I am rereading A Game Of Thrones and I happend to notice a particular scene. When Ned visits Gendry and Gendry tells him that Jon Arryn asked him questions about his mother. Now, what would Jon possibly want to know about Gendrys mother? Shouldn't he be asking about his father unless he already was absolutely sure that Robert was his father, which he probably was. But why would he ask about his mother if he knew the only thing of importance, that Gendry was Roberts bastard. 

Gendry doesen't remember much about his mother, only that she had blonde hair and singed to him. Now, what if Gendry was not only Roberts bastard but Cerseis son as well. That would explain why Jon wanted to know about his mother, because he already suspected it.

What do you think?

Cersei never had any children by Robert, and if anyone would know, it is her. Robert did get her pregnant once, but she had she child aborted.

 

20 hours ago, finger said:

Btw, who paid Gendry's apprenticeship? I mean, who's the stout man with the brown beard? Any guess?

Varys, in disguise. After all..

“Alas, no. There was another bastard, a boy, older. I took steps to see him removed from harm’s way... but I confess, I never dreamed the babe would be at risk. A baseborn girl, less than a year old, with a whore for a mother. What threat could she pose?”

 

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

On 1/23/2016 at 0:43 PM, Good Guy Garlan said:

No. Jon only wanted to know about her hair color to prove the theory that all Baratheons are all born with black hair..

But if we're looking for crackpot, here be crackpot: Gendry's mom is Malora "the Mad Maid" Hightower. Robert had sex with Malora when he visited the Reach (he told Ned about it in Game, and it seems like he really enjoyed that trip). But then Malora knew she was pregnant, and having a "mad" or rebellious streak she went to KL alone to confront Robert about the baby. Cersei was having none of it, though, and told the guards not to let Malora in and threatened to kill her if she came back (Malora didn't use her real identity so as to not embarrass her family further). She worked for a bit as an alehouse worker, incognito, till she gave birth to Gendry. Not long after, a pissed off Leyton showed up looking for her. He told her he wasn't gonna let his House suffer any more shame (Lynesse becoming some sort of concubine was shameful enough). So he forced her to leave the baby with Tobho Mott, promising he'd pay regularly for his apprentice fee so the baby could have a nice life. Malora named him Gendry after Gerold Hightower - the White Bull -, and the name proved prophetic as he grew up to be stubborn and strong as a a bull, as signified by his bull helmet. Malora has spent the rest of her days at the Hightower, as punishment for her transgression. 

 

Funny I have always had a similar theory glad someone else shares it I know it was the first person I thought of when I considered a blond mother although it is very possible that Malora has Flaxen hair 

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

19 hours ago, finger said:

That caught my eye, too. And that ability of Varys with disguises. It's said that he acquired it travelling with a mummers troupe. Maybe, or he might have connections with some people good at disguising, Who knows, no crackpot meant.

You raise a good point, Varys' interest in Robert's bastards. Why should he care? Anything having to do with information means power, and Varys must know about Jaime and Cersei through his little birds. He could try  to use them as a shield in case Cersei tried to play him wrong in the eyes of Robert. I doubt Robert gave a darn for his bastards.

The fact is that I don't have a settled opinion. Gendry and Varys are still alive as the story goes, they might give us some answers.

Btw, Gendry's mother was some blonde alehouse wench. Robert wasn't choosy when mating.

Varys wants to have his puppets in place when he takes the throne.

[finger]

On 25/1/2016 at 4:29 AM, Daemon Blackfyre IV said:

Varys wants to have his puppets in place when he takes the throne.

More on this topic.

I've reread the chapter where Arya spies Varys? and Illyrio? talking business.

Varys knows about the bastards, he knows that Jon Arryn had found out, and now Ned has. Illyrio doesn't like it and proposes to kill Ned, hinting that Varys might have killed Arryn ("you've danced the dance before"), when we're aware it wasn't him. Or maybe he's talking of something or someone else. Still, Varys' interest in the bastards is not clear. They are after Dany and the dothraki.

Otoh, the nature of LF's game puzzles Varys. He doesn't seem to know about his moves, or why Lysa and Stannis have fled.

Confusing as it is, it might show that even Varys doesn't know everything.

When I was reading, it came to my mind that Syrio could be some Varys' agent. I can't tell why.

[Daemon Blackfyre IV]

This also puzzles me and it could be that GRRM changed his mind on things later, I am always suspicious that Varys and Littlefinger are pulling the woll over all of our eyes as well. All the games they play back and fourth are really to test others loyalties

[sweetsunray]

On 23-1-2016 at 6:05 PM, WhitewolfStark said:

There were two other bastards in different brothels that Ned found on his own, they're mentioned and one is even mentioned with having blond hair that has the dark roots showing it's dyed.

Can anyone help me locate this info? I've been going through Ned's chapters, but I can't find a reference to Ned mentioning, remembering or visiting another brothel and looking at bastards, let alone one who's hair is blond but with dark roots showing it's dyed.

All I find about "other two" is LF mentioning the twins at Lannisport that Cersei had murdered as well as the mother shipped off as a slave several years before that. Other than that, Ned visits Gendry and thinks of Mya and remembering he held her in his arms himself once, and he knows about Edric Storm.