purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Oh, and trystane was called dark versus mycella being light. And cersei is light over Robert being dark. What is Robert's skin color then? A white guy but tanned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 And I saw this just now from somewhere online. Lol. No wonder Robert loved lyanna as well as ned. The link http://asoiaf-headcanons.tumblr.com/post/53380177129/iamchrissi-i-think-what-fascinates-us-the-most Something wrong with picture function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neptunium Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 27 minutes ago, WhitewolfStark said: It could be stretched to that, however considering GRRM uses the word fair attached to Robb's skin tone directly in the paragraph before this it's stretching the analogy IMO. Using that very word once again in the following paragraph to help contrast the coloring between Robb and Jon could be argued that the intention is skin tone. It honestly doesn't seem like a stretch at all to me - in fact it's the most natural way to read the text to me. The mention of Robb's skin tone isn't as close to the phrase as you're making out, and the mentions of Robb and Jon's eye and hair colours are closer to the phrase. If you look at people with dark hair, dark eyes and light skin straight in the eye they definitely can seem have a dark demeanor about them, especially compared to someone with red hair and blue eyes. It could be a combination of both - Jon could have a darker look to him due to much darker hair and eyes and slightly darker skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Neptunium said: It honestly doesn't seem like a stretch at all to me - in fact it's the most natural way to read the text to me. The mention of Robb's skin tone isn't as close to the phrase as you're making out, and the mentions of Robb and Jon's eye and hair colours are closer to the phrase. If you look at people with dark hair, dark eyes and light skin straight in the eye they definitely can seem have a dark demeanor about them, especially compared to someone with red hair and blue eyes. It could be a combination of both - Jon could have a darker look to him due to much darker hair and eyes and slightly darker skin. I think auburn hair is not fair hair, at least not the "fair hair" we have seen in this book. Auburn is reddish brown right? Every time they call fair hair, they are either silver or blond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Neptunium said: It honestly doesn't seem like a stretch at all to me - in fact it's the most natural way to read the text to me. The mention of Robb's skin tone isn't as close to the phrase as you're making out, and the mentions of Robb and Jon's eye and hair colours are closer to the phrase. If you look at people with dark hair, dark eyes and light skin straight in the eye they definitely can seem have a dark demeanor about them, especially compared to someone with red hair and blue eyes. It could be a combination of both - Jon could have a darker look to him due to much darker hair and eyes and slightly darker skin. It's literally the next paragraph, but whatever. A combination of both is most likely the answer. Again, I'm thinking it's really just a difference between "fair" and "swarthy" both of which fall into the category of "white" by modern definitions (though go back 250 some years and swarthy wouldn't be put on the same pedestal as fair which was the default definition of "white" in those days). And using that graphic I uploaded on page 1, the difference between "fair" and "swarthy" is the difference between "fair" and "medium" which is barely distinguishable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: I googled Salma Hayek. actually I knew her but I can not remember her skin color. She looks like a white woman with some yellowish tone. So this is olive skin? Then I guess dornish is much more paler than dothraki who are set as bronze. Pretty much. Most definitions I could find on it are that you have a yellowish-greenish undertone to your skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neptunium Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: I think auburn hair is not fair hair, at least not the "fair hair" we have seen in this book. Auburn is reddish brown right? Every time they call fair hair, they are either silver or blond. I've always thought that any hair colour that's not dark is fair, but apparently I'm wrong about that: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fair 8 minutes ago, WhitewolfStark said: It's literally the next paragraph, but whatever. A combination of both is most likely the answer. Again, I'm thinking it's really just a difference between "fair" and "swarthy" both of which fall into the category of "white" by modern definitions (though go back 250 some years and swarthy wouldn't be put on the same pedestal as fair which was the default definition of "white" in those days). And using that graphic I uploaded on page 1, the difference between "fair" and "swarthy" is the difference between "fair" and "medium" which is barely distinguishable. Sorry, I should have been clearer. The two phrases are close in that they're in a comparison of Jon and Robb's appearance, but they're not so close together that they strike me as obviously being direct references to each other. When I first read it I saw a better connection to the closer "Jon's eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black", so I don't think it's fair to call it a "stretch". Having said that, apparently I was using the wrong definition of "fair" when I read it the first time (see above); so my interpretation may have no been the most reliable one :-D The "fair" and "swarthy" comparison is very interesting. I think you may be right about that - if "fair" doesn't refer to Robb's hair then his skin tone is the only other option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 29 minutes ago, WhitewolfStark said: Pretty much. Most definitions I could find on it are that you have a yellowish-greenish undertone to your skin. No wonder in the world book, that martell lady looks quite white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: No wonder in the world book, that martell lady looks quite white. Didn't they just spend a decade in the Summer Isles before that? Even Olive skinned people would get a deep tan from that kind of exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, WhitewolfStark said: Didn't they just spend a decade in the Summer Isles before that? Even Olive skinned people would get a deep tan from that kind of exposure. But that is acquired color, not the natural one. It happened 1000 years before. So I think it can not be passed to later martells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Speaking as someone with "swarthy" skin--it's not as big a deal as it would have been a few centuries ago when such comparisons were being made. And to take your point as to fair and dark possibly being about hair, when Cersei and Robert or even Myrcella and Trystane are compared by such definitions your point about fair = blonde works well with the word's meaning. And the overall "color palette" needing to be taken into account is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: But that is acquired color, not the natural one. It happened 1000 years before. So I think it can not be passed to later martells. This is also true, but I thought the picture of the Martell lady was of Nymeria during the Conquest of Dorne? But then again I always found that most fan artists (who were the ones who did the drawings for the WB after all) always imagine the Martells being darker than "Olive skin" would suggest. Recall how fans were up in arms about the Sandsnakes this time last year because they looked "too white". Generally they looked somewhere within the swarthy to olive range that it didn't upset me. But I always found it amusing that some fans had imagined a darkly skinned Martell family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, WhitewolfStark said: This is also true, but I thought the picture of the Martell lady was of Nymeria during the Conquest of Dorne? But then again I always found that most fan artists (who were the ones who did the drawings for the WB after all) always imagine the Martells being darker than "Olive skin" would suggest. Recall how fans were up in arms about the Sandsnakes this time last year because they looked "too white". Generally they looked somewhere within the swarthy to olive range that it didn't upset me. But I always found it amusing that some fans had imagined a darkly skinned Martell family. There is another one in the chapter of Dorne. She looks really white to me. Yeah, some artists painted them as very deep brown color. Like princess jasmine in Aladdin. But in world book, all martell looks very similar to other people of westeros. Light colored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow of the Morning Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 She had the Stark look, brown hair and grey eyes, very much like Arya, so much that Bran take her for Arya in his vision. Game of Thrones, Arya II Quote "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her." "Lyanna was beautiful," Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. It was not a thing that was ever said of Arya. "She was," Eddard Stark agreed, "beautiful, and willful, and dead before her time." Dance with Dragons - Bran III Quote Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. Lyanna was described as beautiful as well, by Eddard and other people. For that reason, Robert fell in love with her and ask for her hand. Robert, who was seductive and used to beautiful women would not be impressed if she was gorgeous. The deal is, she was not exactly Elia or Cersei. In AWOIAF the maester describes Elia with a delicate beauty, while Lyanna was not. Kevan also described Lyanna as with a "wild beauty" and sates that she paled in comparison with Cersei. Dance of Dragons - Epilogue Quote and with such a wife, Rhaegar might never have looked twice at Lyanna Stark. The northern girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled, though however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun. I don't know exactly what "wild beauty" means, that is not a common expression used in my mother tongue, but it apparently refers to a woman with not so much delicate traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, purple-eyes said: There is another one in the chapter of Dorne. She looks really white to me. Yeah, some artists painted them as very deep brown color. Like princess jasmine in Aladdin. But in world book, all martell looks very similar to other people of westeros. Light colored. The differences between Stony/Sandy/Salty Dornish are portrayed rather starkly--to the point of over-exaggeration most likely (which makes sense when you consider such distinctions were created by Daeron I--an outsider to Dornish society). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 25 minutes ago, Arrow of the Morning said: I don't know exactly what "wild beauty" means, that is not a common expression used in my mother tongue, but it apparently refers to a woman with not so much delicate traits. When I think of "wild beauty" I think of a more robust, active, "natural", messy, disheveled, athletic kind of beauty. Like she just tumbled out of the hedgerow with leaves in her hair and her clothes are slightly "disheveled" looking compared to how "delicate beauties" are composed, wearing make up, having their hair ornately arranged, in pristine clothing, etc. Essentially the difference between a dryad and a china doll. To take the differences to their most extreme cases. A good image I think to keep in mind is the Choice of Hercules myth. Where Hercules comes to a fork in the road where he has to make a choice of which way to go. One road leads up a mountain and is steep and hard to climb. The other road leads down to the seaside or a riverbank (depending upon the variation of the telling) and a luxurious city. Two women come from either road and meet Hercules at the crossroads. The one from the city is dolled up, sexy, scantily dressed, alluring, and tells Hercules to come with her to the city with her and enjoy all the pleasures that life has to give. The one from the mountain, is a bit rugged looking in comparison, without any make up, dressed and overall prepared to do activities outside, and implores Hercules to walk with her up the Mountain, saying that though the trip will be hard and laborious, that in the end it would be worth it. If you can't recognize the moral the story is trying to tell, the ladies' names ought to make it plain to you. The lady from the city is named Vice, and the lady from the mountain is named Virtue. Hercules chooses to go with Virtue over Vice, and so eschews life's easy path to sensual pleasures, for working hard and earning his rewards through the virtues of labor and effort. Lyanna reminds me of how Virtue is classically described, while Cersei reminds me more of how Vice is classically described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 22 minutes ago, WhitewolfStark said: The differences between Stony/Sandy/Salty Dornish are portrayed rather starkly--to the point of over-exaggeration most likely (which makes sense when you consider such distinctions were created by Daeron I--an outsider to Dornish society). Actually I think grrm sometimes forgot this classification. Daemon sand had light brown hair and light blue eyes. Casella vaith was blonde and blue or green eyed I think. And toland sisters are red haired. None of them look like sandy or salty. But they are certainly in the area of salty and Stoney people. So maybe he forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: Actually I think grrm sometimes forgot this classification. Daemon sand had light brown hair and light blue eyes. Casella vaith was blonde and blue or green eyed I think. And toland sisters are red haired. None of them look like sandy or salty. But they are certainly in the area of salty and Stoney people. So maybe he forgot. Or maybe Daeron over-exaggerated? Both is more likely the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 35 minutes ago, Arrow of the Morning said: She had the Stark look, brown hair and grey eyes, very much like Arya, so much that Bran take her for Arya in his vision. Game of Thrones, Arya II Dance with Dragons - Bran III Lyanna was described as beautiful as well, by Eddard and other people. For that reason, Robert fell in love with her and ask for her hand. Robert, who was seductive and used to beautiful women would not be impressed if she was gorgeous. The deal is, she was not exactly Elia or Cersei. In AWOIAF the maester describes Elia with a delicate beauty, while Lyanna was not. Kevan also described Lyanna as with a "wild beauty" and sates that she paled in comparison with Cersei. Dance of Dragons - Epilogue I don't know exactly what "wild beauty" means, that is not a common expression used in my mother tongue, but it apparently refers to a woman with not so much delicate traits. Wild beauty I think is like wild flowers in the deserted lands versus the delicate flowers in the garden or green house. More messy and strong and tough. For a woman like lyanna, I think she is, in my mind, tall, strong, long face, with freckles on face and arms, tanned due to riding outdoors, strong arms due to sword training, messy dark hair and sharp grey eyes. Just like yigrite in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I am blonde haired blue eyed and very fair skinned. You could easily say I am fairer than someone who can only be described as white. I really don't think this is anything. Anyone with black hair would be described as darker than me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.