A trip back in time to think about the dancing shadows in the tent during Mirri Maz Duur's ritual.

[Macgregor of the North]

47 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Ok so if we agree on wolf blooded Lyanna...

Rheagar is often referred to as "the last dragon" but as any reader with eyes will tell you there are now three live dragons flying about and their mother Dany... So was he really "the last dragon"? (Think of Dany's "wake the dragon" chapter and a translucent Jorah standing over the eggs and talking about Rheagar)...

Now we know that a number of Targaryen Kings have lit themselves on fire trying to become a dragon or get dragon eggs to hatch... Also, Rheagar who originally thought he was the Prince who was Promised, wasn't the dragon after all, was obsessed with prophesy.

He was the man in flames, he died for the woman he loved, a sacrifice allowing (arguably...) for Dany to survive and Dragons to return.

See with your eyes! Just because he put a dragon on his armor doesn't mean that he was a dragon...

In fact, when thinking of "waking the dragon" Dany sees herself in his armor...

I agree that the shadow of a great Wolf relates to the manifestation of a dead Starks spirit. Lyanna is a Stark so i meant i could understand why somebody would view the wolf as Lyanna even though i dont think the Wolf does represent Lyanna. And, even though you have gave your explanation i personally still do not associate Rhaegar Targaryen with a man on fire. I just do not see it at all. I know a King drank wildfire, and also Egg died at Summerhall in the flames by accident it seems and that was something to do with dragons eggs but could you list the numerous Targaryen kings who have lit themselves on fire trying to hatch dragons eggs?, because this seems to be your plus point for the theory. This is a genuine question incase its taken the wrong way.

Where were/are you going with all the last dragon and waking the dragon stuff in regards to a man on fire relating to Rhaegar targaryen? I never said he was the last dragon or anything along that lines.

And yes because there is a dragon on his armour it doesnt mean he is an actual fire breathing dragon. that much is obvious. But this book continuously shows reference to people as their house sigil. The book is filled with these references. Jorah is reffered to as a bear but we know hes human. Theres more of course but we all know that because its obvious so im not sure what your getting at by pointing out that Rhaegar is not a real winged, flying fire breathing creature. 

In any event this thread is only to gauge peoples interpretations as of 2016 and its interesting to see alot of us view it differently.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

I agree that the shadow of a great Wolf relates to the manifestation of a dead Starks spirit. Lyanna is a Stark so i meant i could understand why somebody would view the wolf as Lyanna even though i dont think the Wolf does represent Lyanna. And, even though you have gave your explanation i personally still do not associate Rhaegar Targaryen with a man on fire. I just do not see it at all. I know a King drank wildfire, and also Egg died at Summerhall in the flames by accident it seems and that was something to do with dragons eggs but could you list the numerous Targaryen kings who have lit themselves on fire trying to hatch dragons eggs?, because this seems to be your plus point for the theory. This is a genuine question incase its taken the wrong way.

Where were/are you going with all the last dragon and waking the dragon stuff in regards to a man on fire relating to Rhaegar targaryen? I never said he was the last dragon or anything along that lines.

And yes because there is a dragon on his armour it doesnt mean he is an actual fire breathing dragon. that much is obvious. But this book continuously shows reference to people as their house sigil. The book is filled with these references. Jorah is reffered to as a bear but we know hes human. Theres more of course but we all know that because its obvious so im not sure what your getting at by pointing out that Rhaegar is not a real winged, flying fire breathing creature. 

In any event this thread is only to gauge peoples interpretations as of 2016 and its interesting to see alot of us view it differently.

Hey fair questions, and I'm trying to describe my theory in brief so sorry if I get confusing or gloss over details... I tried to edit my post a little above... And I think the "wake the dragon" sequence is very important for Dany, and the birth of Dragons...

but maybe faster and more helpful is just to use a few Rhaegar quotes...

Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.

From the World of Ice and Fire, but still...

It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

At first Aemon, and Rhaegar, thought Summerhall was fulfilling the prophesy... About the only thing we know of the event is that a number of Targaryens died in flames... But later they decided that Rhaegar wasn't the Prince that was Promised... And maybe they gender was wrong because dragons don't have gender... So the Prince that was Promised seems to be the Dragon that was promised... And Rhaegar wasn't the Dragon, Maybe he was a burning man... (Though maybe my favorite part is that I really want the bleeding star to be a dying Aurthur Dayne).

Also, while I do think the wolf and the man in flames represent her parents, Lyanna and Rhaegar, at the same time they indirectly represent the line of her ancestors as well... Ice and fire

but that's just my brief 2 cents, but I love the conversation and wish I had more time to contribute... But I'm plopping a few more quotes here:

Seventeen and new to knighthood, Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ringmail when he cantered onto the lists. Long streamers of red and gold and orange silk had floated behind his helm, like flames.

 

 The traitors want my city, I heard him tell Rossart, but I'll give them naught but ashes. Let Robert be king over charred bones and cooked meat. The Targaryens never bury their dead, they burn them. Aerys meant to have the greatest funeral pyre of them all. Though if truth be told, I do not believe he truly expected to die. Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him . . . that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash.

Note: I think it's important to remember that the Targs always seem to think these prophesies are about themselves... Be it the dragon rising from Whitehall, Aeron Brightflame, or Rhaegar being born at Summerhall. It does seem like there is some tradition, or story, or prophesy about a man on fire given the repeated attempts at self immolation by the Targaryens... Could you argue that it represents Aerys, sure, but remember he had his throat cut and didn't succeed in burning everyone to ash.

So while the Targs always think these prophesies are about them, in Dany's case we have living flying dragons to add some credence to the theory... And note that Aerys, and Brightflame before him, thought they would be REBORN as dragons... Meanwhile Rhaegar thought he was the PtwP... But he was really the flaming man who would be remote as a dragon... And Dany sees herself in his armor, as the true PtwP, the dragons are proof according to Aemon.

Do we know what happened to Rhaegar's body? I forget if we ever learned...

[Macgregor of the North]

41 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Hey fair questions, and I'm trying to describe my theory in brief so sorry if I get confusing or gloss over details... I tried to edit my post a little above... And I think the "wake the dragon" sequence is very important for Dany, and the birth of Dragons...

but maybe faster and more helpful is just to use a few Rhaegar quotes...

Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.

From the World of Ice and Fire, but still...

It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

At first Aemon, and Rhaegar, thought Summerhall was fulfilling the prophesy... About the only thing we know of the event is that a number of Targaryens died in flames... But later they decided that Rhaegar wasn't the Prince that was Promised... And maybe they gender was wrong because dragons don't have gender... So the Prince that was Promised seems to be the Dragon that was promised... And Rhaegar wasn't the Dragon, Maybe he was a burning man... (Though maybe my favorite part is that I really want the bleeding star to be a dying Aurthur Dayne).

Also, while I do think the wolf and the man in flames represent her parents, Lyanna and Rhaegar, at the same time they indirectly represent the line of her ancestors as well... Ice and fire

but that's just my brief 2 cents, but I love the conversation and wish I had more time to contribute... But I'm plopping a few more quotes here:

Seventeen and new to knighthood, Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ringmail when he cantered onto the lists. Long streamers of red and gold and orange silk had floated behind his helm, like flames.

 

 The traitors want my city, I heard him tell Rossart, but I'll give them naught but ashes. Let Robert be king over charred bones and cooked meat. The Targaryens never bury their dead, they burn them. Aerys meant to have the greatest funeral pyre of them all. Though if truth be told, I do not believe he truly expected to die. Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him . . . that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash.

Note: I think it's important to remember that the Targs always seem to think these prophesies are about themselves... Be it the dragon rising from Whitehall, Aeron Brightflame, or Rhaegar being born at Summerhall. It does seem like there is some tradition, or story, or prophesy about a man on fire given the repeated attempts at self immolation by the Targaryens... Could you argue that it represents Aerys, sure, but remember he had his throat cut and didn't succeed in burning everyone to ash.

So while the Targs always think these prophesies are about them, in Dany's case we have living flying dragons to add some credence to the theory... And note that Aerys, and Brightflame before him, thought they would be REBORN as dragons... Meanwhile Rhaegar thought he was the PtwP... But he was really the flaming man who would be remote as a dragon... And Dany sees herself in his armor, as the true PtwP, the dragons are proof according to Aemon.

Do we know what happened to Rhaegar's body? I forget if we ever learned...

At the end are you meaning that Rhaegar and Lyanna are Dany's parents?

So we have Targs dying in the fires of Summerhall. We have Aerion drinking a jar of wildfire while drunk and dying of it, but never actually lighting himself on fire. I dont think these are enough to use a man wreathed in flames as Targaryen symbolism. I think that's what you were getting at when you said numerous kings lit themselves on fire trying to hatch the eggs.

In regards to Rhaegar being the dragon that was promised etc and Arthur Dayne being the comet sorry man but your losing me. But.. I'm glad you commented and it has been interesting to hear people's thoughts and discuss it with them. 

Books are all down to interpretation and we all see different things which makes it awesome. Without GRRM to solve his wee mystery for us we only have our own interpretations and since he won't solve every mystery our own interpretations are all we will have in the end. Which is cool I guess. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

9 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

At the end are you meaning that Rhaegar and Lyanna are Dany's parents?

So we have Targs dying in the fires of Summerhall. We have Aerion drinking a jar of wildfire while drunk and dying of it, but never actually lighting himself on fire. I dont think these are enough to use a man wreathed in flames as Targaryen symbolism. I think that's what you were getting at when you said numerous kings lit themselves on fire trying to hatch the eggs.

In regards to Rhaegar being the dragon that was promised etc and Arthur Dayne being the comet sorry man but your losing me. But.. I'm glad you commented and it has been interesting to hear people's thoughts and discuss it with them. 

Books are all down to interpretation and we all see different things which makes it awesome. Without GRRM to solve his wee mystery for us we only have our own interpretations and since he won't solve every mystery our own interpretations are all we will have in the end. Which is cool I guess. 

Fair enough,

always a pleasure never a chore

[Lost Melnibonean]

54 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Hey fair questions, and I'm trying to describe my theory in brief so sorry if I get confusing or gloss over details... I tried to edit my post a little above... And I think the "wake the dragon" sequence is very important for Dany, and the birth of Dragons...

but maybe faster and more helpful is just to use a few Rhaegar quotes...

Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.

From the World of Ice and Fire, but still...

It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

At first Aemon, and Rhaegar, thought Summerhall was fulfilling the prophesy... About the only thing we know of the event is that a number of Targaryens died in flames... But later they decided that Rhaegar wasn't the Prince that was Promised... And maybe they gender was wrong because dragons don't have gender... So the Prince that was Promised seems to be the Dragon that was promised... And Rhaegar wasn't the Dragon, Maybe he was a burning man... (Though maybe my favorite part is that I really want the bleeding star to be a dying Aurthur Dayne).

Also, while I do think the wolf and the man in flames represent her parents, Lyanna and Rhaegar, at the same time they indirectly represent the line of her ancestors as well... Ice and fire

but that's just my brief 2 cents, but I love the conversation and wish I had more time to contribute... But I'm plopping a few more quotes here:

Seventeen and new to knighthood, Rhaegar Targaryen had worn black plate over golden ringmail when he cantered onto the lists. Long streamers of red and gold and orange silk had floated behind his helm, like flames.

 

 The traitors want my city, I heard him tell Rossart, but I'll give them naught but ashes. Let Robert be king over charred bones and cooked meat. The Targaryens never bury their dead, they burn them. Aerys meant to have the greatest funeral pyre of them all. Though if truth be told, I do not believe he truly expected to die. Like Aerion Brightfire before him, Aerys thought the fire would transform him . . . that he would rise again, reborn as a dragon, and turn all his enemies to ash.

Note: I think it's important to remember that the Targs always seem to think these prophesies are about themselves... Be it the dragon rising from Whitehall, Aeron Brightflame, or Rhaegar being born at Summerhall. It does seem like there is some tradition, or story, or prophesy about a man on fire given the repeated attempts at self immolation by the Targaryens... Could you argue that it represents Aerys, sure, but remember he had his throat cut and didn't succeed in burning everyone to ash.

So while the Targs always think these prophesies are about them, in Dany's case we have living flying dragons to add some credence to the theory... And note that Aerys, and Brightflame before him, thought they would be REBORN as dragons... Meanwhile Rhaegar thought he was the PtwP... But he was really the flaming man who would be remote as a dragon... And Dany sees herself in his armor, as the true PtwP, the dragons are proof according to Aemon.

Do we know what happened to Rhaegar's body? I forget if we ever learned...

Other posters have indicated there is an SSM confirming that Rhaegar was cremated in accordance with Targaryen burial customs. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Other posters have indicated there is an SSM confirming that Rhaegar was cremated in accordance with Targaryen burial customs. 

On principle I dislike the SSM rumor mill, but...

In this case it makes sense... And a minor detail at that.

Thanks!