Daeron the Young Dragon

[Lion of the West]

47 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

The Martells afair never used WMD in order to attack a foreign land.

Neither did the Targaryens.

47 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't agree. No one would had accepted the Rhoynar, just like no one will accept the Essossi Dany will bring in Westeros. But unlike Nymeria Aegon had a home, was safe there and never became a part of the Westerosi society.

Really? I don't recall the Martells fighting some great battle with Nymeria and her Rhoynar followers when Nymeria landed.

47 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Tell me more about how Robert was a great King.

I didn't say that Robert was a great king, I said that Robert was a ok to good king, kind of the same level as Viserys I in several different ways. Robert did not conduct horrible murders and massacres, so he's above Maegor, Aegon IV and Aerys II. While there was the Greyjoy Rebellion Robert did not face any great rebellions against his rule and, probably most importantly, he managed to cement the Baratheon dynasty in a remarkable short time. You may have noticed that unlike the Targaryens who were plagued by the Blackfyres it has taken gargantuan events to turn the nobility away from the Baratheons, and even now when the Golden Company are landing with Aegon, it was the Targaryens who had to return, they were not summoned by people itching to put them back into power. No Targaryen Gormon Peake schemed to return the Red Dragon when there was a Stag to serve. For when Robert died the question was which Baratheon should sit the Iron Throne and a return of the Targaryens don't seem to have been a real choice for anyone interested in making it come true.

Robert's problems were similar to Viserys in that he could not managed his court very well which resulted in a split between the Baratheon brothers and Robert being cuckolded. Now Robert's personal cowardice is a negative trait that allowed much of the things going wrong during his reign. But likewise its to me no secret that Robert's charisma and warrior status bound people to House Baratheon very fast. There was no stream of exiles, like after the Blackfyre Rebellion, to create a court in exile and itch to return´. What we have are Varys and Doran. Varys is highely skilled but Doran is unable to rule his House and its not unlikely that the scheming of the Targaryen loyalists will rather result in the remaining Targaryens tearing themselves appart.

47 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't see why I should believe that he did it for anything else than his personal gain.

Well, you are free to think what you like, just like me.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, theblackdragonI said:

Yes but sons would have come before daughters, something which I'm sure as a female ruler would have annoyed her. 

Why she should cared to changed it tho? She had sons too. Also how many wars there were in the whole Westeros because of Nymeria's law of succession?

1 hour ago, theblackdragonI said:

I don't believe that, but I'm sure male heirs came first as they did in the rest of Westeros. 

Believe what? That in Dorne there are still houses that follow the Andal or First Men laws of succession or that a daughter could inherit after her brothers but before her uncles? 

1 hour ago, theblackdragonI said:

The dragonseeds was a purely Dragonstone thing though. I admit it did happen but there was no kings who practiced it, and it wasn't widely done. 

And who was the lords of Dragonstone? The Targs.

1 hour ago, theblackdragonI said:

The Targs intermarried with other houses, they didn't always intermarry?

The married with Velaryon and way later married with very few other houses, mostly after wars.

1 hour ago, The Prince of Magpies said:

snip

Not true, Seeing how old the dragonseeds were there was no reason to think something like that. It's not like Jaehaerys hadn't proved to be not so perfect with taking land that belonged to the Starks' and making the whole mess with the line of succession.

 

[Chebyshov]

On 9/27/2016 at 1:53 PM, Valens said:

What are your opinions on him? Was he all good or did he also have flaws? Was he bad? Gimme your take on him. I think he was awesome, one of my favorite kings. And Targaryens. But he should have not gone back to Dorne, he should have not trusted them, even under a peace banner. That was really a dirty and low move by the Dornish. Should he have started the invasion of Dorne? Considering how much trouble it brought him and his people, especially Dragonknight and his brother Baelor, I guess not. But in doing that, he proved himself and that ironically became his legacy in that short reign.

Yeah those fucking assholes for fighting back against their own subjugation and oppression, especially when attacks were directed against their civilian population. And I'm sure Daeron's conquest was oh-so-free of war crimes in and of itself .

I think he's an imperialistic jerk.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said:

Neither did the Targaryens.

They used dragons.

1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said:

Really? I don't recall the Martells fighting some great battle with Nymeria and her Rhoynar followers when Nymeria landed.

Because Nymeria used diplomacy and married him. The rest of Dorne who had nothing to gain wouldn't had accepted them.

1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said:

I didn't say that Robert was a great king, I said that Robert was a ok to good king,

I said that because you said ""In a feudal society being a successful warrior is being a good king". Robert was much better warrior than just a successful one hence he should had been a great King.

1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said:

Well, you are free to think what you like, just like me.

QFT.

[Lion of the West]

28 minutes ago, Chebyshov said:

Yeah those fucking assholes for fighting back against their own subjugation and oppression, especially when attacks were directed against their civilian population. And I'm sure Daeron's conquest was oh-so-free of war crimes in and of itself .

I think he's an imperialistic jerk.

1. They can make no more excuse that they were "fighting back" than the Freys can do. The Dornish broke against establish conduct during war and sullied their honor and name.

2. There's no reason to think the Dornish would have been more oppressed by the Targaryens then they were under the Martells. Evidence from the Iron Island and the North clearly shows that the Targaryens are entirely ok with self-governing and maintaining local customs.

3. No one forced the Dornish to fight the way they did. They could have fought in the open but decided on their own to fight a guerilla war, and guerilla wars to my knowledge pretty much always gets nasty. That don't leave the Targaryen troops blamelessfor they acted on their own will.

4. Define a war crime in Westeros, please.

5. You are free to to think what you wish. I think he was a strong king as is evident how he could bring the whole realm together for a prolonged and massively costly project like the Conquest of Dorne.

[Lion of the West]

4 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

They used dragons.

Dragons are not WMD.

4 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Because Nymeria used diplomacy and married him. The rest of Dorne who had nothing to gain wouldn't had accepted them.

Did the rest of the Dornish try to drive off the Rhoynar, or did Nymeria fights wars of conquest and expansion?

4 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I said that because you said ""In a feudal society being a successful warrior is being a good king". Robert was much better warrior than just a successful one hence he should had been a great King.

Not what I meant and perhaps I expressed myself poorly. I meant that being a successful warrior is a path to be a good king, and that a successful warrior on the throne at least should have a pretty good shot at keeping the dynasty on the throne. But I didn't mean that it was the only thing that mattered to make a good king
 

And I will clarify that Robert was a good king, but not a great one. A great king would have ensure a good transition of power to the next generation and kept the House united in purpose.Robert failed at that so he will, most likely, never graduate from being an ok to good king in my eyes.

[Valens]

On 3.10.2016 at 6:52 PM, LionoftheWest said:

Neither did the Targaryens.

Really? I don't recall the Martells fighting some great battle with Nymeria and her Rhoynar followers when Nymeria landed.

I didn't say that Robert was a great king, I said that Robert was a ok to good king, kind of the same level as Viserys I in several different ways. Robert did not conduct horrible murders and massacres, so he's above Maegor, Aegon IV and Aerys II. While there was the Greyjoy Rebellion Robert did not face any great rebellions against his rule and, probably most importantly, he managed to cement the Baratheon dynasty in a remarkable short time. You may have noticed that unlike the Targaryens who were plagued by the Blackfyres it has taken gargantuan events to turn the nobility away from the Baratheons, and even now when the Golden Company are landing with Aegon, it was the Targaryens who had to return, they were not summoned by people itching to put them back into power. No Targaryen Gormon Peake schemed to return the Red Dragon when there was a Stag to serve. For when Robert died the question was which Baratheon should sit the Iron Throne and a return of the Targaryens don't seem to have been a real choice for anyone interested in making it come true.

Robert's problems were similar to Viserys in that he could not managed his court very well which resulted in a split between the Baratheon brothers and Robert being cuckolded. Now Robert's personal cowardice is a negative trait that allowed much of the things going wrong during his reign. But likewise its to me no secret that Robert's charisma and warrior status bound people to House Baratheon very fast. There was no stream of exiles, like after the Blackfyre Rebellion, to create a court in exile and itch to return´. What we have are Varys and Doran. Varys is highely skilled but Doran is unable to rule his House and its not unlikely that the scheming of the Targaryen loyalists will rather result in the remaining Targaryens tearing themselves appart.

Well, you are free to think what you like, just like me.

Robert was a good man, at heart. He just was also prone to extreme hatred towards those he disliked or had something unsettled with. He was a man who felt everything 100%, love and hate. He was not a good king, anyone can agree, but the fact that he "pardoned" Barristan and took him in his service speaks alot. Others were calling for him to be executed but Robert saw a great knight who was simply being loyal to his king and he thought "this guy will serve me well!" In that way he was good, you might say, as a king. But not in many other ways.