Maester of Valyria Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 13 hours ago, Winter prince said: I really like your write up on this one. Very thorough, thanks. Many thanks . I'm working on an update, and also a comprehensive list of all geological activity in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat92 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 25/10/2016 at 8:43 PM, Ser Scott Malkinson said: I'm not saying the Manderlys (or anyone else) know where Bran is, but in order to find Manderly's liege lord, Davos would either have to find Bran or find Rickon and prove Bran is dead. Maybe Davos first found Rickon and Osha and then Osha could tell Davos Bran was going beyond the Wall, prompting Davos to go to Hardhome to look for him. While this would be awesome, I don't think it is what will happen. Manderly could have worded it the way he did so Davos would bring him Rickon and Manderly could get out of his promise to support Stannis because Rickon isn't his liege lord. Well technically everyone thinks both Starks are dead. So Manderly's biggest challenge is proving that one of them is ALIVE. The only reason he believes it's them is because of the direwolves that went with them. If he finds Rickon and proves that he's alive then great. If Bran shows up at some point, even better: now there are 2 Starks and Manderly can just switch over to supporting Bran instead of Rickon. Manderly will support Stannis and help him, but that would be better done if he could rally the North behind a Stark in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scott Malkinson Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 9 hours ago, Mat92 said: Well technically everyone thinks both Starks are dead. So Manderly's biggest challenge is proving that one of them is ALIVE. The only reason he believes it's them is because of the direwolves that went with them. If he finds Rickon and proves that he's alive then great. If Bran shows up at some point, even better: now there are 2 Starks and Manderly can just switch over to supporting Bran instead of Rickon. Manderly will support Stannis and help him, but that would be better done if he could rally the North behind a Stark in some way. I'm not saying Davos would have to prove to the North Bran is dead, I'm saying he'd have to prove it to the Manderlys. However, if the North finds out Rickon is still alive, it's not strange for them to assume that Bran is alive as well. They 'died' at the same time in the same way, after all. Wyman Manderly seems to be a schemer, he'll want something out of this, something more than just having a Stark as his Lord. What he wants I don't know. I'm just pointing out that there is some wonky wording going on in this situation that gives Manderly an out on his promise to Davos. I don't know if he'll use it or if he really just needs 'a' Stark for his plans, but he's certainly expecting to gain something from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat92 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 27/10/2016 at 8:24 AM, Ser Scott Malkinson said: Wyman Manderly seems to be a schemer, he'll want something out of this, something more than just having a Stark as his Lord. What he wants I don't know. I'm just pointing out that there is some wonky wording going on in this situation that gives Manderly an out on his promise to Davos. I don't know if he'll use it or if he really just needs 'a' Stark for his plans, but he's certainly expecting to gain something from this. I feel like he's being fuelled by revenge. His son's died at the Red Wedding after they were betrayed by the Frey's and Boltons. I feel like he really genuinely does want to rally the north behind a Stark again. Northerners are a fiercely loyal and traditional lot for the most part. But you're right, he wants something out of it. I think he really wants to destroy the Boltons and Freys completely - see: Frey pie. I imagine any scheming he's trying to do was to get Stannis to go against the Frey's and Boltons, which he would likely do anyway due to his unwavering and rigid sense of duty and honour. Davos is the proof of this, Stannis could have pardoned him but he cut off his fingers because the good doesn't wash out the bad. Speaking of Manderly, is it confirmed that he died at Winterfell? I think the quote says something like the knife that he was attacked with cut through 6 of his 7 chins or something. He's definitely not in a good place either way: even if he survives he's surrounded by enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scott Malkinson Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Mat92 said: I feel like he's being fuelled by revenge. His son's died at the Red Wedding after they were betrayed by the Frey's and Boltons. I feel like he really genuinely does want to rally the north behind a Stark again. Northerners are a fiercely loyal and traditional lot for the most part. But you're right, he wants something out of it. I think he really wants to destroy the Boltons and Freys completely - see: Frey pie. I imagine any scheming he's trying to do was to get Stannis to go against the Frey's and Boltons, which he would likely do anyway due to his unwavering and rigid sense of duty and honour. Davos is the proof of this, Stannis could have pardoned him but he cut off his fingers because the good doesn't wash out the bad. Speaking of Manderly, is it confirmed that he died at Winterfell? I think the quote says something like the knife that he was attacked with cut through 6 of his 7 chins or something. He's definitely not in a good place either way: even if he survives he's surrounded by enemies. He didn't die when his chins were cut, since 'only' 3 of his 4 chins were cut off, but there were three maesters nearby who might save him. So until we hear more, he is still alive. I don't know if you remember, but Manderly was scheming before the Red Wedding. He was a big player in the Hornwood-inheritance, was allowed to mint money for the North AND build the fleet of the North. These things combined would have made Manderly insanely more powerful. Sure, he still would like a Stark on the throne in Winterfell (as Wylla Manderly said: "In return we swore we would always be their men. Stark men."), and he does want to destroy the Boltons and the Freys, but I think he also wants to make sure he (or his son, since he might die) gains something from this. Whether that is money or land or power or the regency or his homeland or something else, but looking at what Manderly has done so far, especially at the Harvest Festival, he does want something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bironic Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 On 28.10.2016 at 5:38 AM, Mat92 said: Speaking of Manderly, is it confirmed that he died at Winterfell? I think the quote says something like the knife that he was attacked with cut through 6 of his 7 chins or something. He's definitely not in a good place either way: even if he survives he's surrounded by enemies. Maybe Surviving isn't his plan. He could be like some of the NMC on his own himmelfahrt detail. Similar to Roddy the Ruin. Creat chaos and kill as many freys and boltons as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester of Valyria Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 14 hours ago, Bironic said: Maybe Surviving isn't his plan. He could be like some of the NMC on his own himmelfahrt detail. Similar to Roddy the Ruin. Creat chaos and kill as many freys and boltons as you can get. Agreed: I don't think Manderly is planning on getting out of Winterfell alive. He's got his heir back, now it's time to wreak as much havok with the Bolton-Frey-Dustin alliance as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jthurman14 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Manderly has made his play, if Davos comes back with Rickon then it is simple. He will have a large portion of the north gladly join him in supporting the liege lord (on hand) and Rickon will be hot for some Bolton and Frey blood. Manderly needs the north and wants revenge, I don't see him playing false currently. Would Skaggos have any allegience to the wildlings the at Hardhome? I think it was mentioned that they had connections. If so the price for releasing Rickon might be going to Hardhome first. Davos is a smuggler it would play to his characters strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueNightzx Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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